User talk:Earflaps/Archive 4: 2014

Draft:Ultramajic Records

A page you created has been moved to Draft:Ultramajic Records where you can complete it without risk of immediate deletion. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:01, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

User rights changes

Hi. I'm just letting you know that I have removed the Autopatrolled flag from your account. This will in no way affect your ability to create articles, but your creations still need to be checked by patrollers for suitability for mainspace. You may alternatively create new articles in the Draft namespace where there is less risk of Speedy deletion or PROD. They will then be reviewed by the WP:AFC team.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:17, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Ruhr in Love for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ruhr in Love is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ruhr in Love until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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A very friendly warning

- because it's the season of good will: Take it easy, Autopatrolled is not a right at all, create clean copy and the patrollers will leave you alone - I guarantee it, because I am much harder on their heels than I am on yours. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:46, 20 December 2014 (UTC)--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:46, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

How kind of you for explaining. I get very pissy when people choose to bring down a hammer instead of explain what I've done first. I'm the sort that amends my behavior with a friendly warning. Earflaps (talk) 21:59, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Category:Albums written by Ant Whiting

Category:Albums written by Ant Whiting, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 13:27, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

December 2014

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Speedy deletion nomination of Subsonic Music Festival

Hello Earflaps,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Subsonic Music Festival for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. DOCUMENT★ERROR 14:33, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Lukasz Tracz for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Lukasz Tracz is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lukasz Tracz until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:55, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Subsonic Music Festival

The article Subsonic Music Festival has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (companies) requirement. If you disagree and deprod this, please explain how it meets them on the talk page in the form of "This article meets criteria A and B because..." and ping me back. Thank you,

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:56, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Notability

I highly recommend you read the policies of Wikipedia:Notability (events) and related. Also, WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:57, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Will do. Earflaps (talk) 14:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Michael Brun

Kudos on this article creation! If you happen to create anymore Haiti-related articles, please tag the talk page with WikiProject Haiti so we can track it and help it grow faster. I just happened to find it by pure chance. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Global Dance Festival for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Global Dance Festival is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Global Dance Festival until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. KDS4444^Talk 23:57, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Bird photo on your user page

Just in case you missed it, the birds on your user page have been identified. Cheers, 62.107.214.57 (talk) 16:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh yay, thank you! Earflaps (talk) 17:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Bach festival

You are quite correct that the article title should be Bach festival, but we have to move the current page to that title in order to preserve the contribution history, which is required under our CC-BY-SA licence. I've gone ahead and requested the move at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests as it should be uncontroversial. Perhaps you can keep an eye on it to make sure that the move takes place in good time? Cheers --RexxS (talk) 10:14, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

You were quite right to undo the first move, I was a bit confused at the time and being sloppy - just didn't want to undo what was done. :b This way will be much better. Earflaps (talk) 10:29, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:UltramajicLogoColors.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:Lilchieflogocircle.jpg

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Bluegrass

Dear Earflaps: I see that you have been editing some pages about bluegrass music. Do you have an interest in this type of music, or were you just passing through? The reason I ask is that some time ago I tried to find some interested editors so that I could start WikiProject Bluegrass music. I got as far as this User:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics, but found only one fellow music lover at the time, not enough to make a good collaboration. I've been thinking it's time to try again; there seems to have been an upswing in the popularity of bluegrass lately, at least if the number of festivals is any indication.—Anne Delong (talk) 20:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Anne, good for you! Projects can be a great way to bring people together. Unfortunately they often also seem to fizzle out, but I'm still a fan of the concept. I don't particularly have interest in bluegrass (my current obsession more music festival pages). However, I was going to try and find some sort of bluegrass project to potentially ask for help. With the electronic music festivals page, I managed to triple the amount of daily views it gets by linking the list to the 'see also' sections of every related festival page, and the bluegrass topic could really use the same treatment (it's barely linked, and therefore almost no-one sees it). Id do it myself for all the festival pages if I could, but my internet speed triples the time to do things, so someone else could do it in a fraction the time. As secondary tasks, the bluegrass festivals almost all need infoboxes and to have commons categories created. Maybe too copy paste for your interest, but maybe you could let me know if you encounter another bluegrass fan who is interested at some point? Thanks :) Earflaps (talk) 22:10, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

That's a good idea, Earflaps, I did it the easy way by enlarging the Bluegrassmusic NavBox to include the list. Most of the pages about bluegrass already have this NavBox, and I'll add it to any that don't as I come to them. Yes, I agree that the festival pages should have infoboxes; my focus has more been on getting some references so the existing pages aren't deleted, and on creating pages for missing topics. There isn't even a "Bluegrass banjo" page! I don't know enough to create one, although I did create Bluegrass mandolin, the instrument I play. I wass hoping you were a fellow bluegrasser - oh well. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:26, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Abrazo healthcare logo.png

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Misidentification of the Mantra Rock Dance as a Rock Festival

I've just noticed your addition of the Mantra Rock Dance to the list of rock festivals on the Rock Festival Wiki page. Given that the most common understanding of a rock festival would define it as a music-focused event featuring a large roster of acts, held outdoors, attracting a very large crowd, and generally (with a few notable exceptions) lasting two or more days, I sincerely do not believe that the Mantra event qualifies. It was certainly a fascinating event in the evolution of America's counterculture, but it was an indoor event staged on a single evening for the purpose of introducing a spiritual leader to a pretty small audience, featuring only three bands - who were not the focus of the event. If we do not maintain at least some definitional integrity and boundaries on what a rock/pop festival is, then we very quickly lose control of it and the definition completely falls apart. During the original heyday of such festivals, the parties most responsible for stretching the meaning of the term "rock festival" were concert promoters whose goal was to capitalize on the popularity of the festival movement for the purpose of selling tickets to their events - typically indoors on a single night featuring three or four bands. Now, all these years later, we can afford to take a more objective look at the history. While I can appreciate the interest you may have in increasing the visibility of an interesting cultural event, I don't think the Wiki Rock Festival page is the proper home for it. May I appeal to your good intentions and ask that you please re-consider that placement and find a more suitable home for it? Very best regards, Bmankin1 (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm a bit confused. For defining festivals, I would like to note indoor/outdoor, there is no difference, and many festivals are staged on single days to smaller audiences (not every rock festival has half a million people). And yes, pop/rock festivals do typically have more than three bands, but at what point do we draw an exact line? Should we be so anally exact, for a page with such historical importance? I think including the page before the 'summer of love' on the historic rock festivals list is extremely useful to readers who want understand the chronology in those delicate five years when rock festivals were birthed out of smaller events (thanks solely to the development of speaker equipment that allowed for large outdoor or stadium mega-shows). In truth if the event happened after 1968 or 1969, I wouldn't have interest in including it.

If this particularly bothers you, I highly recommend you go into the historic rock festivals list and write in the description, "while this event only loosely fits the definition of the rock festival because of its small lineup, it was 'bla blac,' etc." The 'if we make exceptions the whole list falls apart' argument is more a theory than an actuality, since the lists grow so slowly and randomly, and most people aren't even aware of a specific definition to start with. Earflaps (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Redirects don't go in See Also sections

List of rock festivals redirects to Rock festival. As such, it should not be placed in a "See also" section. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 16:45, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

You're right, thanks for pointing that out. Earflaps (talk) 17:42, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 7 June

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James DeJulio

Hello, I had to remove a great deal of information from the James DeJulio article because much of it came from sources that were not WP:Reliable. There is still quite a bit of article left, though, and I hope it survives. I mentioned most of the unusable sources in the Edit summaries at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=James_DeJulio&action=history. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 03:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

No worries BeenAroundAWhile, I appreciate the cleanup, actually. When doing research I sometimes find those not-so-great filler sources can be a gold-mine for year/division names/etc., so sometimes leaving them in there can be useful as a googling roadmap. But since I know it could be years before another editor adds much, newspaper always better :) Earflaps (talk) 04:15, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Jimi Hendrix

Hi! Would you care to comment at this RfC regarding the article Jimi Hendrix? Dan56 (talk) 23:38, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thank you for improving the page and your hard work Uaearthub (talk) 14:38, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! :b Earflaps (talk) 15:17, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

CNTRL: Beyond EDM

Hello Earflaps. I was surprised at your recent edit to CNTRL: Beyond EDM, to which you added {{Electronic music festival}}. This educational tour was not really a "music festival"; there were lectures and seminars as well as performances, and events were held on many different academic campuses in the United States and Canada over several weeks. Would you mind if I remove your addition? Thanks for all the good work you do on Wikipedia. — Hebrides (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Feel free to remove it, though since the template is also meant to go on pages 'related' to music festivals (tours, major promoters, cultural aspects, etc.), I'm not quite sure why you would want to. Earflaps (talk) 20:22, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Template categories

When adding template categories like [1], please noinclude them like [2]. Otherwise the articles using the template will also be placed in the category. I also fixed [3]. Some of the articles are currently still listed in Category:Music festival templates but will be automatically removed later when the template edits propagate. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:44, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Primehunter! I don't know much about templates, just tend to copy paste, so appreciate the help. Earflaps (talk) 18:00, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Emilie Mover for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Emilie Mover is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Nomination of Monkey Swinger for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Monkey Swinger is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Orphaned non-free image File:OrthoAccel Logo.png

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Reference errors on 7 August

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Orphaned non-free image File:Logo OrthoAccel.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:OrthoAccel Logo.png

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Reference error

Hi Earflaps, this edit introduced a list defined reference that you didn't use. I noticed you left the ref tag off so maybe you planned to use it at a later date. Anyhow a bot came along and kindly fixed the tag for you, which introduced a cite error in the ref section. I've commented the reference out for now. Cheers. CV9933 (talk) 14:39, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Goose Lake International Music Festival

Hello Earflaps,

Can you please let me know why you categorized this article as a "Pop music festival"? I was at the festival and am the most active editor of that article. Which of the performers can be called "pop music" and are there any sources that discuss "pop music" regarding that festival? In my opinion, pretty much all the acts were hard rock, not pop. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:58, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi, feel free to remove. Pop music festival is pretty fuzzy the way I've been using it (either for early rock festivals in 1960/70s when they were often still dubbed 'pop festivals' by promoters, or the festivals that just have diverse genres of popular music) Earflaps (talk) 02:00, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

I understand your point, but I see the matter differently. I think there is a fairly clear distinction between hard rock and "pop music", even back then. By far the most famous festival called "pop" of that era was the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967. If you are familiar with genres and look at the lineups of these two festivals side by side, I think you will see a striking difference. Yes, Monterey had several major hard rock bands but also had a much more eclectic lineup, with folk acts like Laura Nyro and Simon and Garfunkle; soul acts like Otis Redding, Lou Rawls and Booker T. & the MGs; top 40 acts like Scott McKenzie and the Mamas and the Papas; and even Indian music with Ravi Shankar and South African music with High Masakela. The lineup at Goose Lake three years later was almost totally hard rock. For what it's worth, I was co-owner of a Michigan record store specializing in hard rock back in 1970. We devoted a lot of attention to the genres that interested our customers. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:24, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, maybe I've trapped your interest on a topic I need help on. I agree there's a difference, and for super "hard" seeming rock festivals (only zeppelin and santana type concerts), I've been avoiding using 'pop music festival' as a category at all. But then topics like Man-Pop Festival come along and screw me all up. Basically I agree that at some point calling real rock festivals 'pop' festivals is dumb, since there's practically no element of 'pop' at all - I'm just muddy about that first decade or so, when the promoters also seemed confused (for example, Woodstock could really be called either). I've been thinking separating categories into 'pop festival' and 'popular music festival' might help, or maybe 'pop music festival,' but then I get confused on those counts too. I've actually avoided putting up a proper "list of pop festivals" until I can figure it all out. Earflaps (talk) 02:30, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Above all else, we need to rely on what reliable sources say, but since no source is 100% reliable, we also need to rely on informed editorial judgment and simple logic as well, after studying the range of available sources. I am completely unfamiliar with Man-Pop and several of the Canadian bands mentioned, so will reserve judgment there. As for the other three festivals, I would have no problem with the "Pop festival" category for Monterey and little concern about Woodstock if supported by solid sources. The Friday evening/Saturday early morning lineup at Woodstock was certainly not hard rock and there was some diversity later though the majority of the Saturday and Sunday acts were hard rock. Goose Lake is at the other end of the continuum, as I see it, because pretty much all the performers can be categorized as hard rock. Looking at the list of confirmed performers and wracking my memory, I can't come up with a single act that wasn't hard rock at Goose Lake, though a few like Bob Sever overlapped a bit into other genres, as he was known for ballads as well. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:05, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Then it sounds like Goose Lake might be a perfect example of what 'not' to categorize as a pop festival, at least with these current definitions. It's a bummer that so many of these pages are poorly sourced right now, but glancing at the lineups does give a pretty good idea of genre (probably easier for you than me, I'm assuming you can recognize twice the artists I can just off the top of your head). Now that I think about it, I'll leave the 'pop music festival' category for situations where at least one of the major headliners is 'not' defined predominantly as rock or metal, and just hope the page bothered to signify the headliners). Earflaps (talk) 03:18, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

It took me a fair amount of work to expand the Goose Lake article from a miserable stub to something halfway decently referenced. I was motivated because I was there at the festival.and I had just reconnected with an old friend from that era when I was working on it. I am a generalist editor, not a specialist rock music or music festival editor. But if my experience with that article is typical, the sources are out there for a motivated editor willing do the work and separating the wheat from the chaff. Goose Lake is notable but is covered much less in reliable sources because of the open drug use and mass arrests which gave it a "bad rap". Please feel free to ask for my input about hard rock of the late 60s and early 70s, which was the period of my most intense fandom, though I still love the music today. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:30, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

It was a pleasure to come across the Goose Lake page when I was first working on the historic rock festival thing, so thanks for the improvement on it - also a fun read, jealous I wasn't there :b And thanks for the offer about the hard rock info - over the next week I'll be finishing off the categories and templates for the historic rock festivals list I think, so may hit you up with questions if I run into categorization problems. Actually, might be premature now, but after the templates were all done I was going to clean up the list one more time so it's less chaotic (right now it mostly consists of random sentences pasted from the festival pages). At that point the description column could really benefit from some oversight, especially since I've never been to a big music festival and dont know what I'm talking about beyond the webs :/ Earflaps (talk) 07:15, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 7 September

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DYK for Allen Jones (artist)

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:02, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Big text

Steve Aoki page has wrong ethnicity

Should Steve Aoki be listed as a Japanese-American artist or a plain American artist (of Japanese descent)? His parents are definitely Japanese and katakana names are not usually a sign of only being ethnically American. This would depend on his dad's ethnicity, right? Also, the article for his father Hiroaki Aoki states that he is a "Japanese-born American wrestler and restaurateur". This could be understood as him being Japanese and working as a wrestler in America specifically.

Also the word "descent" suggests that he isn't purely Japanese even though both his dad and mom are purely Japanese and are Japanese-born. Which is also quite misleading.

 Speeditor talk  00:51, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

PS: Found this video where he explicitly states that he is a Japanese-American. Not sure we can find a better subject on the person than themselves, in case anyone has anything to contradict this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkU0RWZa-ps

Hi, good questions. I've always interpreted first-generation Japanese immigrants to the US to be Japanese-American (as they at one point had Japanese citizenship), but in interacting with their second-generation children (who have never had Japanese citizenship), I've always just called them American. I know that sometimes people put ethnicity before current nationality (callign fifth-generation Americans African-American because they have dark skin, etc.), but that can get a bit confusing, especially with mixed race people (no one wants to call Trump Scottish-German-American), so I try and keep it for citizenship only. Thoughts? I'm sure there's a guideline out there somewhere that clarifies. Also, you seem to be interpreting "descent" to automatically denote mixed race, not quite sure why? Earflaps (talk) 20:57, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I found that there's a Wikipedia policy that states "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." -MOS:BLPLEAD

Perhaps the guy being physically Japanese-American is not related to the content of the article as of now. However, the article could be rewritten to show that his parents are both native Japanese. Also, a case can be made for him just being American due to his birthplace of Miami. So it could also stay as it is as the fact that he is born in Miami is fully referenceable.

PS: I've not heard "descent" used much outside of immigration from many decades/centuries (resulting in the person sharing the genetic origin of the natives in the country). But I'm not sure about it, I've only heard it being used in history books in order to understand descent with that nuance.

Seems like synonyms are "family, ancestry, parentage, ancestors". Anyway, some people have tried to make a secondary addition to the policy to allow judgement on the matter but it got rejected in a huge RfC on the grounds of it being too open to interpretation.

 Speeditor talk  10:11, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

However, the article could be rewritten to show that his parents are both native Japanese. - I agree! (if you wanted to go to town on editing the page, I wouldn't get in your way). Definitely wouldn't harm anything or create undue weight (it's an interesting fact), and you make a good point about "descent" - those other synonyms might work a lot better.

Thanks finding for the guideline as well, always good to clarify. Also, it's also possible he obtained secondary citizenship later in his life? I'm not sure, but it definitely sounds plausible - if I remember correctly he comes from a very prestigious sumo family, so it probably wouldn't have been hard for him to get. I know that new documentary is coming out sometime, and is meant to focus on his family, so that might end up being an awesome source later on for the whole topic Earflaps (talk) 22:59, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Why are you adding red cats?

Why are you adding [[Category: Music festivals established in ]] to a ton of articles? For example in this edit of Cradle of Accordions Festival. Also note, there should be no space after the colon. Also why are you adding |genre=GENRE?

Accidental typos - remnants from a flurry of added templates. I would say minor, easily fixable damage in light of the massive overall improvements, so I'm not sure why you seem snippy about it. :/ Earflaps (talk)

As you didn't know you were making the mistakes, how would you know to correct them? I'm not being snippy, I asked two questions. Great, get called snippy here, get called snippy today for saying "FYI you created a redirect to itself" It seems no matter what, one is snippy if you bring up another's mistake. Bgwhite (talk) 06:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

It's the internet and there's no tone or body posture, just words. Unless you start your statement with a nice friendly greeting, people will take your curtness at face value. Just sayin'. Earflaps (talk) 11:13, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

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‎Requesting guidance

Greeetings

It seems you have been working on culture related some articles too. I am requesting your kind guidance for change of name of one article. When I started working on a new article recently, presently named Poles in mythology actual article name was some thing different, actually due to some misunderstandings some one changed name of the article to Poles in mythology. Matter of the fact is I wanted to cover cultural aspects and festive celebrations as an umbrella article and wanted to have historical mythological, worships wherever concerned as a small part of the main article.

Poles in mythology is altogether a different subject when I am doing research and writing cultural aspects of festive celebrations are also coming up simultaneously and I am coming to a conclusion that for covering cultural aspects of festive celebrations of 'pole' we need to have a separate umbrella article altogether so we will not have more confusions and misunderstandings. Either we need to change present article name or split and create a new cultural aspect related article.

Please let me know your openion and if you are positive to my suggessions what should be the new articles name ? In fact you can join in discussion at Talk:Poles_in_mythology#Change_of_article_name

Looking forward to your kind guidance

Thanks and warm regards

Mahitgar (talk) 05:48, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of MedPost Urgent Care

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A tag has been placed on MedPost Urgent Care, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

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Hi User:DGG, I think speedy deletion is a bit harsh, since it's a tidy little stub with neutral wording. If put through a real afd, though, can't deny it would probably be redirected back per wp:too soon. So I don't have much incentive to contest :/ Earflaps (talk) 04:52, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate your sensible attitude to this. What I did, was to merge the key information into the article for the parent company, and redirect to that article. Thus, people looking for the name will find the information. This is perhaps the best way to deal with most company subsidiaries that do not constitute major companies in their own right. DGG ( talk ) 06:25, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Repeat AfD

You participated at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashley Golebiewski (2nd nomination) earlier this year, an AfD that closed as keep. The article is now up for deletion again by the same editor at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ashley Golebiewski (3rd nomination). Your input as to whether or not consensus has changed will be appreciated. Alansohn (talk) 02:43, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Category:Festivals by name

Category:Festivals by name, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:35, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

oh well

suppose should wish you best of the season, it sure takes ages to chase after you and add the project tags to the talk pages of the categories that you create!!! best wishes JarrahTree 14:59, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Lol! Happy season to you as well, I always like seeing your talk page creations show up in my watchlist :) I personally find them useful, since I go to the projects for templates pretty often. Thanks! Earflaps (talk) 15:02, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

np, in that case a very prosperous and safe new year, all current editing is being conditioned by griff rhys jones on trains in africa, and a baby kitten trying to play with african trains on the ipad, so much for life... JarrahTree 15:07, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Kittens! \0/

sheesh, you gotta go back to kindergarten for this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_film_festivals_in_South_America - prove to me why those categories all belong there...

Kittens, one thing, you have hit the go back to kindergarten button for that one... you need to cleanup or probably remove at least 2/3 of those cats, they are not relevant. JarrahTree 01:08, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

As for the configuration of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Festivals_established_in_1984 toxic!!! hidden template rubbish makes that category more or less un-editable, year cats are never tagged popcat... grrr JarrahTree 01:37, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Uh, ok. You're free to delete what you like JarrahTree, I'm knowledgeable about categories but no expert. The lists categories are just starters, but obviously not necessary until someone (me, since I'm the only person working on the tree it seems) unravels the redirects to film festival lists by country. Earflaps (talk) 02:54, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

dont talk to me about anything by country (see my other recent edits) sheesh you must be a shakespearian indeed, there's the rub - look at the category festivals established in 1984 - for a normal run of the mill editor there is something rather sinister, nothing to edit, where's the innards, the guts to edit, nothing out damned spot - nothing to edit... the template or hidden component is like a politicians personal assistant on a quiet weekend, invisible.. maybe i should swear in bengali or javanese, but i cannot access the damned unicode for the letters... sorry to be a nuisance, but the whole years of festivals front main space pages does not look editor/user friendly... unless I am missing something (most likely) JarrahTree 03:05, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Um...only partly able to make sense of what you mean, but the point of the set templates is to make it so noobs can add a new year easily, and when they do, the page automatically goes in all the right categories without them needing great knowledge of the tree. Also, it means if you want t add each year to a new parent category, all you have to do is change the template instead of all 120 categories individually. Jarrahtree, I'm not sure what you want to edit so badly on them? The only set things on them are a few categories, a description, and a navigation box. If you want to add more categories, or don't like how it looks, that should be an easy fix. Earflaps (talk) 03:59, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

nope, I do not think a hidden set of items should be concealed from editing. It is not that I want to edit so badly, to restrain open access to how a category is edited, to me goes against the whole essense of what wikipedia is about.

• {{Festivals by year of establishment cat|1984}} is all an editor can see for:
• The following category is for festivals established in the year 1984. *Festivals by year of establishment 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 *This category has the following 2 subcategories, out of 2 total. * Film festivals established in 1984‎ (1 P) * Music festivals established in 1984‎ (11 P) Categories Festivals by year of establishment Recurring events established in 1984 1984 1984 festivals

You are asking an editor accept that you have tied up 4 categories, that cannot be edited due to one template line? Some categories do not get edited for 4 to 6 years when they are established, and to have a set that are tied into a template like that is in my opinion problematic. One thing to be nifty with templates, another to be actually helpful to those who follow you. Nah, I would ask you seriously to consider you have created an unnaceptable template. JarrahTree 08:10, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

You seem to have a general problem with templates being used for year categories? I'm a bit surprised, since they're so common. Perhaps you should take your dislike of templates up with the community at large? I apologize that I'm having trouble following your logic otherwise. On this issue with the festivals in particular, note that when a template is added to a category, you can still edit it (add categories, text, wikicommons links, etc.). The template just creates a base skeleton. Also, if one year looks like it needs to be modified more minutely than the template allows, or has unnecessary features, it is easy to simply remove the template and create the same category cluster manually, then use a basic decades navigation box. If the occasional red links bother you, note there is an "if then" category function to be added to the templates I've seen, which can make it so red categories don't display. I plan on adding that in to the festival tree at some point, if no-one beats me to it. Earflaps (talk) 13:37, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your explanation, appreciated. The templates may be common, but not always providing up to 3 categories, and other bits and pieces. I have spent a considerable amount of time either adding talk page items to categories for the steam ahead 400k and 600k champions who have never been on the talk page side of anything in the time that they have ever edited on wp. Interestingly I had never seen the steamers use such templates in bulk for categories. However for the top of the main space, came across an annoying one just last week. I appreciate your explanation of if it needs to be modified and manually doing things. Red links are of no concern, it was simply the prospect of having to deal with the template mechanisms. Thank you for your patience with my steam era/age response (sic), and best wishes for your tolerance of my misunderstanding, and the odd logic that I may impart, obviously in my own space away from the christmas kitten. So thanks. JarrahTree 14:20, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jarrahtree, no worries, I actually agree that templates are infuriating, overall - only like 5% of Wikipedians will ever figure out how to modify the templates themselves, which goes against the community spirit entirely. I feel like things would be better if Wikipedia actually invested in the tools to make template editing user friendly instead of wasting all those millions of dollars on farking conferences and plane tickets to visit random jungle nations... but hey, pet peeve, and I know any improvement on the situation are a pipe dream. But huge cons aside, these closed templates are unfortunately the only way I've found that make it somewhat possible to build/tend a category tree as large as the festival one on my own, since there isn't much activity (the automation, thank god, lets me fix my own mistakes quickly). Also, thanks for recommending I take down the "populate" tag on them, probably better without. Earflaps (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

oh well whatever one does, there is always the chances a complete and utter idiot will arrive and stuff up best intentions... JarrahTree 09:28, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

next

Savvyjack23 (talk) — is wishing you a Happy New Year! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the New Year cheer by adding {{subst:New Year 1}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:36, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Earflaps!

Happy New Year!

Earflaps,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:36, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Last changes

I saw the theme of your last edits. Can I help you?

Codice1000.en (talk) 16:38, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

can we help?

[4] trust it is not terminal JarrahTree 11:03, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Lol, you always leave the most cryptic messages. thanks for fixing that, but otherwise don't know what you mean. Earflaps (talk) 15:22, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

haha or ahah, a closer look at the the difference has a category in asia and africa at the same time. It could be then into sherlock type assumptions possible. you're geographically challenged, you must be north american. JarrahTree 23:06, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

another thing, the usage of the word 'festival' for things that are not advertised as such and area really 'event' takes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Auto_shows_in_the_United_Kingdom into lala (as opposed to lol) land. Youve gone too far with that one imho. JarrahTree 23:18, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

cryptic? you have gone too far with including 'events' that have 'show' as the operative word for the event. too far. JarrahTree 23:22, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Dude, you seem to enjoy being hostile to me, and I'm not sure why. You are perfectly free to politely revert my edits you don't agree with, instead of being mean, and you're also free to politely bring up my mistakes with me and discuss better options. I'm getting tired of the "you've gone to far" bulllshit, when like you, I'm just here to make things better. If you take the effort to ask, I'm always happy to explain my reasoning, or work to find a compromise if my logic is askew. Earflaps (talk) 05:55, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

totally misinterpreted, we are here to improve wikipedia, I have specifically noted something that is neither hostile, mean or bullshit.

I cannot see why simply you applying festivals (I thought the least of a response from you would be to provide a dictionary definitons of shows and festivals to at least show why dichotomous categories are being joined), the least you could do is explain your reasoning rather than respond the way you have done. Mean ness, or your other accusations are not really where this is at. Just get on with why you think 'static' shows of vehicles is in any way a festivity. Please at least try to give a reasoning, without the accusations JarrahTree 09:44, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

If I feel you are being unnecessarily nasty to me, I am fully entitled to feel that way, and to defend myself (within reason of course). See the Category:Sports festivals talk page for my answer on the trade fairs. Also, if you don't think a boat or car show, or other trade fair can't be "festive," you clearly haven't been to many ;) Earflaps (talk) 12:33, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I think this has gone too far with you imputing things from my attempts at debating an issue. Debate is where you dont take it personally and can see that issues need to be thrashed out, without thinking or assuming that I have any feelings or specific personal things against you (which I dont, if you can understand that). It is the usage of words. Better to leave all alone, get on with something else, and wait, if anyone eveer turns up... to widen the discussion, or add another perspective. cheers JarrahTree 23:56, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Sports festivals

Hi, I note that you have been creating, and in some cases re-creating, a hierarchy for Category:Sports festivals. The old categories by this name were split to international sports competitions and multi-sport events, see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_March_20#Category:Sports_festivals_by_country. Would you be prepared to undo your edits, and tag the new pages with {{db-author}}? – Fayenatic London 18:25, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Fayenatic london, thanks for the polite question. I respect that the old categories were sensibly deleted to help simplify the fork between the multi-sport and int. sport cats. However, the festival tree at large has undergone enough maintenance lately that other types of sporting festivals (boat shows, air shows, auto shows, festivals with folk athletic competitions like the Highland Games, etc.) need a home, and "sports festivals" seems the simplest option to me. Perhaps you can think of a better parent category? Otherwise I'll stick with this one, and people are free to nominate for deletion and open a new discussion on the matter, if they like. Earflaps (talk) 18:59, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

IMHO those examples are a mixture of selected multi-sports events and Trade shows. Although you have attempted a definition, given the lack of a lead article, it's partly circular: "festival-sized physical competitions". It seems to be a matter of opinion as to what is a sports festival, and WP:OC#SUBJECTIVE is a good reason not to make it a category. – Fayenatic London 08:01, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

see also comment in previous section, there is inadequate reasoning as to how boat shows and auto shows are in any way 'festivals' JarrahTree 09:46, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for opening a discussion on this, it's good to clarify. I'm going to move it to the Category:Sports festivals page, so others can contribute as well, and will respond there. Earflaps (talk) 10:58, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

As we had no consensus there, I have opened a discussion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_January_29#Sports_festivals. – Fayenatic London 11:36, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Category:Fireworks festivals by country has been nominated for discussion

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Category:Garden festivals has been nominated for discussion

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Category:Food festivals by country has been nominated for discussion

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Category:Indian festivals has been nominated for discussion

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Orphaned non-free image File:Greatest Video Game Music 2.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:WOLV Records logo.png

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Invitation

	Hello, Earflaps. You are invited to join WikiProject Food and drink, a WikiProject and resource dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of food, drink and cuisine topics. Please check out the project, and if interested feel free to join by adding your name to the member list. North America1000 14:02, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Category:VICE Media has been nominated for discussion

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Too much to clean up

I reverted all your recent changes. The reasons for doing so-

• Constantly committing WP:OVERCITE. In one case like 5 IC from the same source for one paragraph that is all from the same article.
• Changing what Dave Hill said in his book. Do you have a copy of Teed Off? I do. The word innocence is not used.
• Sandra Palmer was never suspended but you created a section header saying just that.
• Your removals in the aftermath section

And there's more. That just makes it too much to clean up without just applying the TNT and restarting.

BTW The Toski three times quote that you removed because there was no IC on it for that quote is wrong too. That was referenced too but somewhere along the line because of your sloppiness, you took the right IC off it and replaced with a wrong one.

I can point out at least three times you've introduced wrong information into the article and you're wanting to get me blocked for stopping your sloppiness?...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:20, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

• • User:WilliamJE, I understand it can be very difficult to watch a page you built go through growing pangs. But constantly reverting the bold additions of others, and thinking you're somehow protecting the page by doing so, is frankly not the way to go about it. I'm going to re-add what I believe is non-controversial, and will try to work around the points above that upset you. But I will not let anyone block me out of a page I want to improve, simply because they are....well, a bit obsessive. I'll respond to your key points above, and if you revert blindly instead of working me with in a friendly way, I will happily take you to arbitration. I hate conflict, its a waste of energy and emotions, and a third party will hopefully keep us from wasting more of our time. Earflaps (talk) 13:44, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Jane Blalock

Just a friendly note about a few things.

1- Linkedin fails WP:RS because it is generated by the person. Find a WP:RS for anything I removed because of Linkedin and feel free to readd it. While it has nothing to do with my removing it, I honestly don't ever remember seeing Blalock work on camera for NBC and I've watched pro golf on television for almost 40 years.

Hi WilliamJE, LinkedIn can't be used for most things of course, but with WP:SOCIALMEDIA, it's perfectly fine to use on first-person information about the LinkedIn owner. I.e., if a person puts their timeline on LinkedIn, it's the same as if they put their timeline on their own official website and domain. I find LinkedIn extremely useful for dates. And I wouldn't know about seeing her on TV, I was just going off of sources. Earflaps (talk) 21:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

WP:SPS Says 'Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book, and also claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published media, such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs (as distinguished from newsblogs, above), content farms, Internet forum postings, and social media postings, are largely not acceptable as sources. Linked in is personal content....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Yep! Linkedin is a personal source. However, I think you forgot to actually read WP:SOCIALMEDIA on personal sources. :) It's a charming little loophole. Earflaps (talk) 20:24, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

2- There were several mistakes in the part about Blalock being inducted into the Legends Tour Hall of Fame. First of all that HOF has nothing to do with the WGHOF. Also the section said the LPGA veterans committee voted her in. None of the sentences IC say that she was voted in by that committee

Ok, fine with rewording. I thought it was accurate when I wrote it, but I'll go through the sources again. Earflaps (talk) 21:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

3- I changed the 100 more than Tiger Woods to 150. I think its 154 or 156 but 150 is a more outstanding round number.

Cool.

4- 29 wins I changed to 27. I know the NYT article says 27 but the LPGA is the authority on what Blalock's wins total is. The Times article could be a simple mistake or the possibility that in 1987 Blalock's recognized win total was 29 but two of her wins are no longer considered official. 29 is confusing to a reader even with the IC because it says 27 in the same paragraph. Your casual reader is not going to know the history of pro golf tours recognizing wins and then changing them to unofficial status some time years later....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:03, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Have to argue on this. The New York Times I assume was adding 2 to the 27 published by the LPGA, and TNYT is about the pinnacle of reputability. Blalock's website also states 29, and you yourself have pointed out that the LPGA and PGA websites are less accurate than Wikipedia/other sources. Earflaps (talk) 21:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Holy baloney I have the munchies, be back on a bit later. Forgot to mention, whenever its convenient, I posted a new paragraph on the Jane Blalock bio talk page for you to peruse. Earflaps (talk) 21:19, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I said Wikipedia's recordkeeping is better than the pro tour's. However the MSM's mistakes when reporting on the tours is not always reliable. I've blogged about the golf media's penchant for sloppiness. Doug Fergusson, of Associated Press writes about the 5 greatest shots in Masters history and leaves out Larry Mize's chip-in from 130 feet to win in 1987 but lists a golfer hitting the ball to 6 feet. Ferguson for years said the PGA Tour had been playing in Washington DC since 1968. It is 1980, the Kemper Open didn't move to DC till that year. Ferguson has done many more errors and he is AP's senior golf writer. Here's a recent golf discussion[5] about fixing a mistake that was based on something reported in the media. The 29 total can be a mistake, the tournament win now being unofficial, or Blalock saying it was 29 and the NYT reporter using her total for the story.(Gary Player personally claims more Senior Championship wins than what all the major pro tours recognize him having. I'll fill you in with the details if you want) Bottom line- Pro tours are the primary source for a player's win total or career accomplishments unless their is irrefutable evidence proving they are wrong. Like the LPGA not knowing Kathy Whitworth won the same tournament 5 times, which the LPGA has since fixed (Blow my own horn time- I made the LPGA aware of their mistake) or George Archer's total amount of putts at a 1980's golf tournament per multiple PGA Tour guide books up till 1994 and news media reports but the PGA Tour says now is different and won't fix despite the proof. No irrefutable proof that the LPGA is wrong on the her win total has been found. I tried checking her other wins (Did it yesterday in fact) in Google News Archive but nothing in the news reports says her Angelo wins were official....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:11, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I've done some more looking. Blalock on her twitter page claims 29 wins. LPGA does clearly say 27. The wins Jane may be counting is her Triple Crown victories. I found google news stories on them but they don't say the tournament was official (or not) but one did say the 1977 tournament began the LPGA season for that year. I looked at media coverage of Jane's late career victories if they ever specifically say how many wins she had at the time, but I haven't found anything yet but will do some digging. Who is right LPGA or NYT and Blalock? I don't know and begin to wonder if the LPGA is wrong but they are the official one for that kind of info....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 23:03, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I looked around too, and got lucky - a LPGA press release from 2014 that says 29. I changed it back on the page with a desccription of the source I found - best I can guess is the LPGA main page is a sort of automatically updated database that perhaps fell behind, while I assume the press release actually had some editorial oversight. Might still be good to figure out why the disparate numbers, and explain to readers better though. I for one was very confused by it for awhile. Earflaps (talk) 20:24, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

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Wynn Boston Harbor

Hey, just a note about geography. You added a number of image that showed the west (Assembly Square and Sullivan Square areas of Charlestown and Somerville) side of the Mystic River. However, the casino is being built on the east side of the river, in Everett. I've swapped out the images for an aerial view that shows the actual site. Cheers, Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:12, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Wonderful Pi.1415926535, thank you! I think if I tried to cross-reference those old maps anymore today, I'd short-circuit. Earflaps (talk) 20:13, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

No problem. If you're not able to get photos of your own, ping me when (if...) construction starts and I can grab some. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:06, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Super cool, I'll keep that in mind if the building ever starts going up :) Until then, I tried putting some Alford Bridge photos on the page to break up the wall of text, but I'm doubting how well that worked - maybe you could take a look? Also, I was thinking about cropping the picture you added (while leaving that one in place) to have a closeup of the plot for the construction section - but even after like a day of research, I'm still confused about the plot's boundaries, was wondering if you might be able to do that better. At your convenience - thx Pi.1415926535! Earflaps (talk) 16:14, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I removed one image - that's the Edward Dana Bridge which runs straight north from Assembly Square and isn't near the proposed footbridge. Honestly, I would rather have a wall of text than images that aren't terribly related. A photo of Steve Wynn, or a fair-use render of the casino, would be better than pictures of bridges that don't add a lot to the article.

This article shows the plot of land that the casino will be placed on. The plot is toward the edge of the aerial image; I would keep the current version which places the site in context, rather than cropping it to just show bare dirt. (PS: I've watchlisted your talk page, so no need to ping me when you respond.) Cheers, Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I was wondering why that bridge looked so unlike the other, lol. Thanks :) If you'd like, I'd be fine if you'd like to remove the other photos too, until some better ones appear. Sometimes I get overzealous throwing media around. Earflaps (talk) 23:54, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Shogun Audio Ltd

Hello Earflaps,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Shogun Audio Ltd for deletion, because it doesn't appear to contain any encyclopedic content. Take a look at our suggestions for essential content in short articles to learn what should be included.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. —swpb^T 20:22, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Um, ok. Looks like someone is trying to delete a redirect so they can upload a full page version of Shogun Audio? They may yet succeed, I suppose, so will let deletion sit for now. Earflaps (talk) 21:27, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Nomination of Sebastian Solano for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Sebastian Solano is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sebastian Solano (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:14, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

2016 Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Community Survey

The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a committee to lead the search for the foundation’s next Executive Director. One of our first tasks is to write the job description of the executive director position, and we are asking for input from the Wikimedia community. Please take a few minutes and complete this survey to help us better understand community and staff expectations for the Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director.

• Survey, (hosted by Qualtrics)

Thank you, The Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Steering Committee via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

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Category:10,000 Lakes Festival by year has been nominated for discussion

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Categories

Hi Earflaps. I'm contacting you because the community is expressing concerns about some of your edits (there does seem to be rather a lot of messages on your talk page). I am sure you believe that what you are doing with categories is correct but you might possibly not have fully understood how our categories and category tree systems work. Believe me, I do appreciate how complicated it is. I have found at least one page that does not belong among festivals such as, to cite just one example, Brass Monkey Motorcycle Rally (Australia). I noticed also that the CfD at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 22 seems to have stagnated with only one admin, BrownHairedGirl, commenting, and a decision needs to be made. Could you please take a moment to explain either here, or to me by email if you prefer, what you are attempting to achieve with the majority of your 9,000 or so category edits, otherwise I'm rather afraid that some community members might escalate and I think that would involve a lot of unnecessary time-consuming work for us all. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Greetings! Do you have a specific category you would like to discuss? I have not heard any other complaints that have not been resolved (or left unresolved in friendly discussion, due to lack of consensus overall), so am not quite sure what "community" problems you are referring too, unless I missed a discussion somewhere? I would be happy to explain my edits to you, in detail if you like. Earflaps (talk) 05:32, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, I rather hoped that you would tell me what your goal is with the categories, then I might be able to better understand what you are doing and that the community is worrying about nothing..

Are you aware that you might be creating creating a complexity of dual category trees with this for example, and that these sports events are neither carnivals nor festivals. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Kudpung, the sports festival tree is particularly contentious - I knew it would be when I recreated it, as I could see prior deletions. However, previously the tree was being used for a different purpose (a container, inaccurately, for basically all types of sports events), so a new fresh discussion needed to happen. I'm not going to spell out my reasons for recreating that category again here - I'm tired of rewording the same common sense arguments. If that is your only issue with my 9000 edits, then it would be more productive if you take your worries to category talk page, or start a new deletion discussion so it gets new eyes. Earflaps (talk) 14:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to ask User:PanchoS, BrownHairedGirl, and JarrahTree to chime in here.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:21, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Kudpung, maybe you didn't notice that PanchoS currently has a discussion going already, with quite a few people contributing good thoughts. That would be a better place for worries about the sports festival cat. I'm content with my contributions to that tree, and frankly have washed my hands - it is up to the community to decide what to do next. I get tired of doing everyone's work for them, while people talk in endless circles. Earflaps (talk) 01:29, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm here in response to the ping by Kudpung. I commented tentatively at the CFD, without much research, simply on the imprecision of the name. Looking at this again, the alarm bells ring more loudly.

My first visit was to the linked Category:Sports festivals in Nigeria (permalink). It raised 3 alarm bells with me: first that so much explanation was needed, secondly that it acknowledged so much overlap with pother categories, and thirdly that it had only one article.

None of those trait is desirable in a category.

An explanation may be helpful to clarify technical terminology, but if any such explanation sets out to clarify a lack of precision in the title, then we have a problem. Categories are usually applied through tools like HotCat, which do not display any of the text in the category page, so if the title isn't clear, we get miscategorisations.

Overlap is also a bad thing, because it causes category clutter on article pages. A well-designed set of categories has minimal overlap.

The single-article category alarmed me, so I looked a little further: it turns out to be one of six single-article sub-cats of Category:Sports festivals in Africa. That's not good. So I looked further at the parent Category:Sports festivals by continent, and I see a wide spread of categories with few contents.

Many of the contents look problematic. For example, the first-listed subcat of Category:Sports festivals by continent is Category:Dance festivals by continent. But dancing is entertainment and/or art, rather than sport, Category:Dance is not a subcat of Category:Sport. So that's a miscategorisation, and a widespread one.

Another subcat is Category:Motorcycle rallies by continent. I notice there that the parent Category:Motorcycle rallies was not categorised as a "festival" until Earflaps added[6] a set of categories. But the head article Motorcycle rally (permalink) doesn't mention the word "festival" other than in the category[7] added by Earflaps. I think I'd want to see some sort of reliable sources for describing these rallied as "festivals".

So I see a lot to worry about. I am sure that Earflaps is doing this work in good faith, but the fate of the 2016 June 22 CFD (stalled, no sign of consensus) shows that for good or ill, the community doesn't have any consensus yet on whether this all adds up to coherent concept under a clear name.

I suggest that this would be a great point for Earflaps to take a break from building this category tree, and have some wider discussions about whether and how to proceed. This is potentially a very big category tree, and since questions have already been raised, it is much better to resolve them now, rather than risk putting a lot of work into a big edifice which gets demolished later.

And one last thing. Earflaps, I was sorry to see your comment I get tired of doing everyone's work for them, while people talk in endless circles. I hear your frustration, and I empathise with it (I've been there) ... but please do remember than en.wp makes decisions by consensus, and the first subsection of WP:BOLD is headed Be careful. You don't yet have a clear consensus for what you're doing, and while that's not a red light, I do see a few amber lights.

Hope this helps. Best wishes, --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:26, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

I endorse BrownHairedGirl's comments about giving it a break. For many additions to the questioned category structure, long after concerns have been raised and CFD's started, I fail to see that as good faith, or understanding the importance of waiting before consensus is arrived for specific concrete decisions, before adding more.

Pointing to a CFD page is a problem - this is a wikipedia wider issue that needs to be in a wikipedia space, not a CFD page space, this is up in RFC or somewhere where the wider ramifications of category creation and the issues of categories that are overlaps and misunderstandings - maybe category creation needs to be reviewed. JarrahTree 02:43, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

I've been very tactful with creating this category tree, I wish some of you would recognize that instead of the constant negativity. Look at the history logs. I created the page, then created the country/continents skeleton with two sample country pages, to see how that would be received. Then I politely waited for the initial deletion discussion to finish its course, and modified the page as the community talked, to try and incorporate people's various opinions. I expanded the tree a few days ago because my blueprint was finally ready, and I felt confident the new variation incorporated people's worries as best as possible. I won't apologize for expanding it to its current size, and will continue to add more country trees if I see the need, unless the community decides the tree needs to go (if they can come to a consensus). If the community can't decide, that's not my fault, and you shouldn't dump on me in frustration. Kudpung, you should know better than to act like I own this category simply because I recreated it. Earflaps (talk) 02:52, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Earflaps, You probably fail to notice that all I have done is to facilitate this discussion at a community request. You insist that everyone walks on eggs when they address you because of your admitted short fuse - now please keep your insults (and your personalised ES comments) to yourself otherwise you'll be answering to other issues besides having to respond to perfectly reasonable requests for explanations about your category work. Thank you for your comprehension. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:48, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Understood. To facilitate discussions, in the future when addressing me Kudpung, please ask specific questions, not broadly asking me to explain 9000 edits with no direction. Also, since you never supplied me with a link to this apparent "community request," please don't act as if you represent a community I am not a part of. Unless you are appointed a role or are choosing to end an official vote/discussion, you only speak for yourself, just like the rest of us. Earflaps (talk) 06:22, 30 July 2016 (UTC)