User talk:Doncram/Archive 6

This is an archive, is not to be edited.

Joshua P. Young House, Blue Island, IL

This response has been a while in coming, as I've been concentrating on other things, but I'd like to take you up on your offer to start a page for the Joshua P. Young house as an element of the National Register of Historic Places. Thanks Burnhamandroot (talk) 18:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

List of Registered Historic Places in California#Nevada County

		The da Vinci Barnstar
		Doncram, I award you this barnstar for the outstanding table you created at List of Registered Historic Places in California#Nevada County. And, yes, if you made similar tables for other counties, it would be outstanding. Rosiestep (talk) 21:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the other changes you mentioned, that's fine, and I'll follow the style. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Template:ConvertState

I just made a new template, and I felt like bragging haha.. An editor can input a full name of a state (such as Mississippi or New York) into {{ConvertState}}, and it will return the postal abbreviation (such as MS or NY). Also, an editor can input the abbreviation (MS or NY), and {{ConvertState}} will return the full name (Mississippi or New York). I think this template will have a major impact on many templates throughout Wikipedia.. it will make Wikipedia more like an actual human brain - able to "think" and decipher the name of a state regardless of the format in which it is given. The template is already implemented in {{Infobox nrhp2}} for the region parameter in the {{coord}} template, and I think pretty much any geography-based template could utilize it. I'd like to spread the word, but I have no clue how haha.. any ideas? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 03:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I expanded it to include the "other" US and Canadian (ISO 3166/postal) codes, and suggested a way it could be expanded into ConvertAbbrev/, see: Template talk:ConvertState/doc. When the "dust settles" Dudemanfellabra definitely deserves a barnstar, but not sure which one? LeheckaG (talk) 10:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Pittsburgh-area NRHP property

Thanks for advice and work on the Pittsburgh and Allegheny County NRHP lists. One problem: as someone who was there and got a (sadly) not-the-best picture, I can tell you that the Singer House (#126 in the Pittsburgh list) is located in Wilkinsburg, a borough separate from Pittsburgh. I hope to be able to start uploading pictures quite soon, both for the Allegheny County list and for the Pittsburgh list. Nyttend (talk) 21:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I cycled up to the house and got pictures from the sidewalk: it's not that the pictures are bad, but that you can't see a ton of the house from the picture — there's a hillside blocking the way, and sadly there was a NO TRESPASSING sign at the entrance to the driveway. A local pastor told me that he and his wife have been able to go up to the house, so conceivably someone could get a better picture to replace mine eventually? Ah well; I should have the Singer picture, as well as the rest, uploaded rather soon. One other question: one of my favorite NRHP sites that I saw was Temple Rodef Shalom, of which I got several pictures, including its celebrated façade. There's one picture on the article already, somewhat of a three-quarters view. I'm planning to upload the façade picture; would it be appropriate to add this picture to the article, leaving the current picture in its current place? Or is it standard to have just one picture per article? Nyttend (talk) 01:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again for your help and advice: the new picture is uploaded and placed. Do you think it's better for the infobox, or should the other picture be put back and the new one have a subsidiary place? Nyttend (talk) 02:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Another request

The only NRHP property that I've actually written an article about is Reformed Presbyterian Church of Vernon, in southern Wisconsin, but I've had trouble with it. When I put in the address, Google Maps won't display anything (not even take me to the road, which is on there), and if I remember right, Mapquest doesn't do much more. Is there anywhere I can go to ask specifically southern Wisconsin NRHP people, or anyone you know who would fit such a description? Nyttend (talk) 12:13, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Chatham Village

There is already an article on Chatham Village. Do you care to merge it with Chatham Village Historic District? From a former resident. Pustelnik (talk) 01:21, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Torrey Pines Gliderport

Let's just say I had to do a little bit of extra work to get this photo dm (talk) 15:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:CHICAGO

Thanks for registering at Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/members. You may want to get involved in the Wikipedia:Meetup/Chicago 3. Also, be advised that the project is now trying to keep all the project's WP:PR, WP:FAC, WP:FAR, WP:GAR, WP:GAC WP:FLC, WP:FLRC, WP:FTC, WP:FPOC, WP:FPC, and WP:AFD discussion pages in one location at the new Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Review page. Please help add any discussion you are aware of at this location.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 17:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Blocking

I understand your concerns about the stubs, but firmly disagree. A minimal stub listing the name and location of a site (with founding date, reference number, and NRHP listing date in the infobox) is better than nothing at all. If all NRHPs deserve articles then why not take initiative and begin them and allow unregistered users to add info? I feel like your orders on my talk page are bordering on harassment. Swampyank (talk) 00:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion, before and after Swampyank's posting comment above here and there also, at User talk:Swampyank. doncram (talk) 00:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

HABS material

I wasn't aware of the Historic American Buildings Survey, Historic American Engineering Record, and Historic American Landscapes Survey materials, but obviously, they're good resources, and I'll use them. Figuring out how to add photos to Commons has been on my "To Do List", but I just haven't gotten around to it so I tend to take the quick route of photos as ELs. I'll take another look at uploading to Commons in the next day or two. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Columbia and Dutchess RHP tables

Hmm. Funny you should ask about this; I'm working on John Kane House, a Dutchess RHP, right now.

Don't worry about not having a Columbia-related HRHD pic; note that the PA NHL list uses a NY pic for Delaware and Hudson Canal (Someday I will get out into Wayne and Pike counties and take a PA-specific one). I am hoping also to get up there before the summer ends and get a contemporary pic of Montgomery Place; at that time I will certainly strive to get nearby RHPs and some in Columbia County (normally out of my range) as well.

As for tableizing those lists ... since, as I said, I haven't really gotten up to Columbia County that much, I have nothing to say about that. But ... as for Dutchess, where I have done a lot of work, I would very strongly suggest that you separate the Poughkeepsie list (also include New Hamburg in that, as it's the southernmost portion of the Town of Poughkeepsie, and I have pics of all but one of those properties in the pipeline), since it has almost a hundred entries, and strongly suggest the same with Hyde Park (including the two Staatsburg properties and Top Cottage, the one listing in East Park) and Rhinebeck (again, that includes Rhinecliff as well). You'll have four much more manageable tables instead of one gigantic one.

Good work! Wow ... I always imagined what this would look like, although I'd like to see it all finished. I added to the POK list some the script hadn't put in (Innis Dye Works, Poughkeepsie Journal Building) and cleaned up after (didn't put in the dab term for Academy Street Historic District (I added one since there's another one in North Carolina), and a bunch of other things). I have about three more POK ones in the not-too-distant future coming along, so that should be nice (and almost all of the New Hamburg ones in the further future). And the map generated will make future trips there easier.

As for the coords, you used the NRIS ones? For the articles themselves I used what was on the ground ... I hope that's not why the Adriance Library is depicted as being across the street and the post office a block north of where it should be.

Now to go add pics to the Rhinebeck and Dutchess lists ... I guess we'll split Hyde Park later, I suppose. Daniel Case (talk) 04:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Other things you may want to know about ... I ventured into the town of Marlboro a couple of weekends ago with my son and, among other things, got a pic of the Dubois-Sarles Octagon, which I will be adding to the List of octagon houses when I get around to creating the article.

With the picture I got of Old Southeast Church this weekend, I have gotten all the listings in eastern Putnam County. I also discovered that NYSOPRHP mistakenly put the documents for most of the Nelsonville properties under Dutchess County (good enough for government work ... keep saying that!), so I can write short articles on them using the pictures I took last fall that, while I will not be able to get any DYKs out of them, will result in combination with articles I've written and plan to write in a more than 75% illustrated Putnam list hopefully by the time you get around to doing it. The tough part now is a lot of old estate houses in Garrison that are not easily visible from the road and will require going down their driveways, and maybe (gasp!) asking their owners' permission.

Finishing those would probably also make it possible to do a standalone tableized list for the Hudson Highlands Multiple Resource Area, a 1982 MPS that covers five different counties.

Lastly, I have heard back from NPS regarding terminology and will be posting the email to that page soon. Daniel Case (talk) 16:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry it took me a while to respond but ... guess what? I had meant to tell you about this last night before I went on my latest excursion up the valley, but I was too busy using the Dutchess/Rhinebeck/Poughkeepsie and Columbia maps to put together an intinerary for my latest trip up to Albany and back, which I got back from a couple of hours ago.

What did I get? Contemporary color pics of three NHLS: Montgomery Place, Van Alen House and Schuyler Mansion, which I will be uploading shortly per what's becoming my practice with NHL updates. I got a picture of the underside of the western Dunn Memorial Bridge onramps to show what the Fort Orange Archeological Site looks like now, but we may not want to use that on the NY NHL list. That's in addition to the Columbia County view of the Catskills across the Hudson you wanted (from Clermont), some additional pics for that article and four or five dozen RHP pics from Poughkeepsie to Albany. (Including some in Hyde Park. I can see not splitting that off now, but when I get most of these uploaded and create the articles I will split that one off. In addition to there being about 20+ listings, fully one-third of them have some connection to the Roosevelts, which is another reason to have a separate list). I must have taken 60 or so pictures for eventual use in articles ... God! Why do I give myself so much work (Answer:Because I can).

On top of that, on Thursday I went down to Garrison during the day and took care of a lot of those aforementioned estate houses. Based on what I have now, all but five of the Putnam listings will be illustrated (two aren't a problem ... Tompkins Corners is a little difficult to get to but I don't foresee any issues photographing the church there, and as Woodlawn is home to the Hastings Center, it would probably be easier to shoot on a weekend. Rock Lawn is also being renovated at the moment; I could have shot it from near the front fence, and there is enough of the untouched villa visible, but it wouldn't really be fair. That leaves only, I think, the Hurst-Pierrepont and Thompson homes as ones that need to be approached carefully, when the light is right.

I am hoping to finish uploading pics from that day in late May I'm working through right now, then finish my May uploads (only one other RHP in them) and probably take a break from RHPs for a while and maybe work on some SCOTUS cases I've been interested in that no one else in that project has done yet. Or finish tightening up the production section of The Devil Wears Prada as part of an eventual FA bid. Or both. Then, when I get back, I've got all those ones from Cohoes I did to work on. Daniel Case (talk) 04:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I see you took care of tableizing pretty much all the NY lists! Wow! Just after I go and get a few more pics from NE Westchester (Somers Hamlet Historic District will soon have its own pic instead of having to use the Elephant Hotel one, and I basically took care of all the other Somers listings plus Bridge L-158 (Somers Town House can be removed ... it was the original listing for the Elephant Hotel. Likewise I removed West Point from the Putnam list; it's really across the river whatever the NRHP says and frankly, I think they made a mistake).

That Putnam list looks mighty fine ... I was thinking of how many pics I will eventually be able to add to it that I have (I overcalculated the ones that will be a little harder to get ... more like four). Perhaps when you get the state NHL list up to FL status, I can do the same with the Putnam and other HV lists and we could have a nice featured topic possibility). I should also get cranking on sourcing the RI NHL list, writing up an intro and taking it to peer review. Among so many other things.

Had you consulted me prior to tableizing the other lists, I would have suggested breaking the towns of Cornwall (including Cornwall-on-Hudson and Mountainville) and Montgomery (including the villages of Maybrook, Montgomery and Walden) out separately due to their large numbers (I live in the latter, so it's a matter of some personal pride, too :-)).

In Ulster County Kingston should definitely have its own list. And in Westchester, I took Yonkers out already.

NY county nrhp

Just so you know, I was doing something similar with ny county ( full list User:Dmadeo/nrhp-manhattan) and then breaking it into separate lists for the 4 divisions I had put in place last year dm (talk) 04:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK: Dutton-Waller Raised Tybee Cottage

On 14 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dutton-Waller Raised Tybee Cottage, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 23:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

List of Registered Historic Places in Clinton County

Nice work on the table! One comment-- items 15 and 16 are the same, except for the town. I assume one of them should go? Also, item 13 is called D & H, while 15/16 are called Delaware & Hudson-- probably should be uniform? Cheers! -- Mwanner | Talk 00:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you and my response

Thank you for bringing that to my attention Doncram. I was not aware of the other conversation on the other page. However, after reading through comments made by yourself and others I still am giving a thumbs up to the inclusion of the Hampton-Preston House. I see nothing in the current requirements for DYK noms to meet the high standard you are advocating for citation/references. There is also currently not a precedent in place to denye this particular article approval for the reasons mentioned by yourself, as a high volume of articles with similar issues are passed regularly. However, I applaud your efforts to improve the process at DYK and encourage you to pursue this matter further outside of a debate over one particular article. This will avoid what I see as a muddying of the issue due to a somewhat tenuous history between yourself and User:Bedford.Nrswanson (talk) 04:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

WP: Historic Sites or some such?

If you do get such a Wikiproject going, please let me know - I'd be most interested. I've translated a few articles from the French about federally-recognized Official Monuments, and I'd like to see some standardized way of handling such things.

By the way, I'm afraid I've been one of the flies in the ointment over the whole "light vs. lighthouse" debate; sorry about giving you such heartburn over that. (I prefer the former, incidentally.) --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!}

August 2008

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we must insist that you assume good faith while interacting with other editors, which you did not on User:Bedford. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Any response? H2H (talk) 05:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you do not have perspective on the running disagreements between Bedford and myself, in which he has been incredibly incivil and engaged in numerous personal attacks. I don't know what you are referring to specifically now, but after being patient for a very long time it eventually becomes impossible to "assume good faith" on his part. I saw somewhere recently that assuming good faith was perhaps downgraded from being a policy to a guideline, perhaps due to the problem, as probably applies here, in attempting to require rational people to believe an obviously incorrect proposition. doncram (talk) 05:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

National Parks of New York Harbor

In order to get broader consensus, I opened a discussion at RM since this is clearly a controversial move. My reasoning hasn't changed, it's the proper legal name of the organization regardless of in-text discussion of phrasing. TravellingCari 13:00, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: List of Registered Historic Places in Monroe County, New York

Thanks for the information; I'll see what I can do. =) Powers ^T 17:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:CHICAGO leadership

This month you have indicated new or continuing interest in WP:CHICAGO as either an active or semi-active member. The response to the project membership survey was strong enough that we should attempt to organize it in a more fully functional way. Please sign up at Wikipedia:CHICAGO/leadership if you would be willing to serve as a leader of the project from September 1, 2008 to February 28, 2009. The various leadership responsibilities are listed there. The roles will be somewhat similar to the roles of Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators. We are a less mature and developed project than WP:MILHIST however, so our division of roles will be slightly different. Please respond by the 23rd.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

A modest suggestion, humbly offered

I haven't followed the specifics of the wiki-disagreements which have embroiled yourself and User:Bedford. Given the situation you characterize, you do yourself credit when you announce inherent bias in disagreements with that editor. However, I humbly suggest you refrain further from discussing or even describing the user, keeping your comments to the subject at hand, as best is possible. IMHO, when a wikiperson acts like a duck, smart wikipeople who read the discussion will recognize duck-like behavior. Best to stay out of the muck yourself. Don't take this as warning, more like friendly, encouraging feedback. BusterD (talk) 23:24, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I see we have Bruce Catton's The Golden Book of the Civil War in common. The one with the really cool maps. I still have the copy I owned as a child. BusterD (talk) 00:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to the Military history project

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Status of NY NRHP lists

Hi doncram ... I checked the New York lists against my spreadsheet of NRHP recent listings posted between March 28 and August 8. Not surprisingly, some counties are up to date and others are not. The following counties have recent listings that are nowhere to be found in their WP list articles:

• Delaware: Rock Valley School (added 5/12/2008)
• New York: House at 145 East 38th St. (5/21/2008)
• New York: Fraunces Tavern (3/6/2008)
• Ontario: Smith Observatory and Dr. William R. Brooks House (4/11/2008)
• Oswego: Standard Yarn Company Building (5/15/2008)
• Queens: Trinity Lutheran Church (5/29/2008)
• Steuben: Hammondsport Union Free School (5/15/2008)
• Westchester: Scarsdale Woman's Club (2/29/2008)

The Niagara County page lists Chase-Crowley-Keep House and Chase-Hubbard-Williams House at the bottom under a "research needed" heading. Both sites were added to the NRHP 5/21/2008. Updated for those. --doncram

For all other counties, the non-table-ized lists are current through recent listings of 8/8/2008, but, with the exception of East Charity Shoal Light in Jefferson County, the listings that aren't included in Elkman's database don't appear in the tables.

Hope that helps. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thanks a lot! Will be updating all now to use {{New York NRHP date for lists}}. doncram (talk) 19:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

BTW: I've been working on the manhattan lists, its very hard to line up the old version and the elkman version. I want to get it right *before* we start breaking it up into the four regions in the city. dm (talk) 16:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, wasnt suggesting throwing your work away. I've taken the lists offline and have been writing scripts to compare them as best as possible, there are lots of extras in the current list, but if you spend time on them, they turn out to be something else... Anyway, I'm going to walk away from it for a bit, then try again. dm (talk) 05:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I am working on List of Registered Historic Places in Manhattan below 14th Street, first, will follow up to Dmadeo talk page later. doncram (talk) 15:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I havent made much progress, and since you're already working the list over, I think I'll defer until you are done. What I did before you started was go through all the ones I knew existed and created redirects. There are still some which point at the wrong article etc, I'll wait until you're done before trying to fix those (since many of them will be pipes, rather than redirects). The redlinks which really are redlinks I'll see what I can fill in. I have photos for most of them from last year, but at the time, elkmans generator wasnt ready. Now of course, it is. dm (talk) 22:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Jay Bridge

I have uploaded a picture of Jay Bridge, one that you had alerted me to the need for way back when. The article said "The bridge is eligible to be listed on the National Register of Historic Places once it is repositioned across the river", which I have changed to "It is eligible to be listed in the NRHP", as the bridge is decidedly in place. Any idea when it is likely to be actually listed? I searched the database and found nada. TIA, -- Mwanner | Talk 20:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Lewis House

Hi, Someone has been deleting all redlinks from this one which you created and other NRHP disambig pages. If only one blue link remains, he changes it into a redirect. I've reversed two of his name changes to NRHP articles. and don't want to go any further. How do we protect against this? clariosophic (talk) 01:57, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

User:Tavix

Hi;

From what I can tell, his edits on the NRHP-related pages are inappropriate. I don't know a lot about this topic, but to delete the redlinks on the DAB pages definitely seems counterproductive in this case, since the articles could and probably will exist eventually for all the sites, all of which probably meet WP notability requirements. (I've noticed that some editors are particularly disturbed by redlinks and they delete them whenever they can, without regard to whether or not it's actually improving anything apart from their preferred appearance of a page. It might be a case of this, but judging by the other related edits, I'm not sure.)

I notice s/he hasn't made an edit since 01:45, 18 August 2008, which is prior to your messages being posted on the user's talk page. I think I should allow him to have a chance to respond to your messages. If he doesn't respond and continues to make these types of edits or if he replies with any sort of hostility, could you let me know again and then maybe I could try to step in and provide some back-up for you?, because I definitely agree with your assessment of the edits. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

• Yep, that's me. Sorry for removing the redlinks, I don't know what I was thinking. Tavix (talk) 23:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't have an opinion about Tavix's actions, which I haven't reviewed, but WP:MOSDAB requires that every entry on a disambiguation page contain, somewhere in it, a blue link to an article. Deor (talk) 01:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

More Pittsburgh

I've added more pictures to List of Registered Historic Places in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania and List of Registered Historic Places in Pittsburgh, some of which I found online already. One note: I discovered that there are separate articles on Chatham Village Historic District and Chatham Village. Nyttend (talk) 20:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Also: do you know what to do to shrink the images for articles such as Duquesne Incline, Homestead Grays Bridge, and Monongahela Incline? I tried modifying the image sizes, but it's obvious that the images are larger than the 250px shown on the Mon. article. Nyttend (talk) 20:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

While you were away, so was I. I was in Pittsburgh at a wedding and took pics of Woodville and the Bost Building, then added them to the PA NHL and Allegheny County lists. Daniel Case (talk) 04:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Now that you renumbered all those Pittsburgh NRHP sites, could you renumber them again? The Gardner-Bailey House is located in Edgewood, not in Pittsburgh. Nyttend (talk) 00:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

A request

Hi doncram ... I have a request. When you table-ize lists, would you please retain any disambiguation links from the original lists? One of the things I do when I work on a table is to check for listings with identical names in other locations. When I find them, I disambiguate the links in the tables or old style lists. As I'm sure you can appreciate, this is painstaking work and I find it very frustrating to go over ground again that I've already covered once. Thanks ... --Sanfranman59 (talk) 01:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what else to say. I posted my message here after I discovered that disambiguations I'd done back in June on the old-style list at List of Registered Historic Places in Albany County, New York weren't reflected in the current table-ized version. My M.O. when converting the old lists to tables has been to retain all disambiguation links from the old lists rather than leaving it for someone else to do. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask you to do the same, but I recognize that we all have different approaches out here and mine is no better or worse than yours. Vive la différence!

As for the piped links, I thought that there'd been agreement somewhere that we would do this in these lists, but I can't find the discussion now and don't really want to comb through the archives to find it. Do you think this is something we should raise at the WP:NRHP talk page?

No, although I don't think it is a big problem if the parenthetical expressions as in Smith House (Albany, New York) show, I agree the practice/precedent/"right" thing to do is to do pipelinks, so just Smith House shows. I will try to be more careful/consistent about this. doncram (talk) 00:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Finally, I was not unaware of the list below the table, but it wasn't clear to me what was meant by "to be merged into table above, verifying no info is lost". Again, you and I seem to have a different approach to converting the old-style lists into tables. Perhaps it would be helpful to include a note or a hidden comment with instructions as to what you're leaving for others to do. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 18:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, my section titles below could themselves be clearer, and/or there could be more written openly or hidden in comments about what is left to be done. And, I see all the more reason to finish processing those previous lists below to take away the issue. It is a lot of work though, there are so many to check, but it does seem like it has to be done. I plan to keep working on New York State RHPs to do this though, and not start on new states. doncram (talk) 00:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the database used by Elkman's table generator dates back to April 24. That's the database refresh date that's indicated on the NRIS search page and I'm reasonably certain that Elkman has that version of the database. But it couldn't hurt to go back a few additional weeks just to be certain you get everything. I put together a spreadsheet of all new listings from 3/28 through 8/8 and was using that to update our NRHP lists. I've just returned from a couple of weeks away and was planning to resume my work on the lists. Since you're taking on the New York lists, I'll skip them. Would it help you if I sent you the New York additions from the above time period or have you already clicked through all of the links on the NPS recent listings page? --Sanfranman59 (talk) 02:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

wp:NRIS info issues

(I just changed two references to "NRIS info issues" here, now changed to "wp:NRIS info issues" in anticipation of deletion of the redirect. doncram (talk) 16:43, 6 October 2009 (UTC)) Hi, I've put a speedy deletion tag on wp:NRIS info issues because it's a redirect from article space to Wikipedia space, that's not generally acceptable. Corvus cornix_talk 21:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

RE: Your recent message,

Hi, thanks for the message. I'm OK with just improving the Canada section. I started one article today in my sandbox and will do more. They're not as easy as US ones but I think I've listed enough tools in the List talk page. The Afd stuff irritates me because it is seems so negative and wastes time that could be spent on positive things. Tropical Storm Fay disrupted my week also, not that I had any direct damage but it caused lots of inconvenience and brought back bad memories of the 2004 and 2005 hurricanes. Things are getting back to normal , but we're still getting heavy rains. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 05:13, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

St. Peter's pic

Close your image brackets on the List of...below 14th...I would have done it, but was afraid I'd cause an edit conflict. Lvklock (talk) 05:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Done (and considerably more fixed up with that article, List of Registered Historic Places in Manhattan below 14th Street, too. doncram (talk) 02:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Joseph H. Rainey House

On 23 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Joseph H. Rainey House, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

FL candidacy List of NHLs in NY

Funny you should mention this, because tomorrow I'm going to Albany again ... and, I hope, points beyond. I am going to shoot for pictures of the Saratoga ones, Owl's Head in Lake George, and maybe the Langmuir and Watson houses. Plus any relevant nearby RHPs.

Also, recently, I've gotten a lot of Rockland stuff, and today I was down in Peekskill as well. Daniel Case (talk) 02:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I was trying to decide if I can make it up that way, so I'm glad to hear Dan will be in Albany as well. dm (talk) 04:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

As you may already have noticed, I was wildly successful. Irving Langmuir House, Nott Memorial Hall and Canfield Casino and Congress Park have contemporary color photos now. Petrified Sea Gardens, Owl's Nest and lemuel Haynes House have pictures too. I also got, as I promised, lots of other RHPs in the area (I'm going to be busy with this summer's images through next year, I bet. And I don't think I'm finished yet). Daniel Case (talk) 15:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Re burned out, hey, do what you have to - including walking away for a while, it'll take care of itself... re the maps, I'll remove it. dm (talk) 03:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I got the Garrett Smith Estate in Madison County today. I'll try to get it uploaded this weekend. Lvklock (talk) 23:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Cobblestone Farmhouse new listing

Sure, I'll be glad to work on the Cobblestone Farmhouse article (and, you're welcome for the other.) I just got my computer back from a motherboard repair and was kind of casting about wondering what to do next. Also, I've added the FL nom to my watchlist and will be glad to help wherever I can. Lvklock (talk) 02:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Oops. Too late. Already started in mainspace. On the upside, I'm off work this week, so should have plenty of time to work on it. I'll look at the other, too. Lvklock (talk) 03:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. The individual nom describes this prop as Middle Era cobblestone architecture, but the description seems to me to match Early in the MPS. Take a look and see what you think? Lvklock (talk) 04:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the dyk nom. I'm sorry I didn't get to the Nakashima article. There's probably enough there to do a good 5X expansion at some point. Lvklock (talk) 04:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for sending the credit my way. You deserve it, too!

On 31 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cobblestone Farmhouse at 1229 Birdsey Road, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Lvklock (talk) 03:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

X at Y Foobar street

Actually, I seriously doubt there "there is a general issue to discuss", because all such articles I know of except those that use the (Sorry, but I have to say it) moronic naming convention of the NRHP use the Y, Foobar street format, and even amongst the NRHP articles I don't think there are all that many that uses it, whereas I can find numerous non-NRHP articles that nobody would ever consider putting at "Building at Y, Foobar street", because people have common sense. Circeus (talk) 17:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Cooleemee image

I think the reason it's not showing is because it doesn't appear that the image was uploaded properly. I just get a white box even there. Firefox on a PC. TravellingCari 21:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

and clicking further it says, The image “http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/CooleemeePlantation_FirstFloorPlan_HABS_cropped.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors. Sounds as if there was a hiccup on upload, not an infobox issue. TravellingCari 21:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Replaced at Cooleemee by a new version, differently named. I dont know for sure, but the problem for this HABS image may have been that it was in TIFF format to start, an inefficient, large-size format. Most HABS pics are JPG i think. Or the problem with the upload was somehow with my computer, newly using Firefox 3. doncram (talk) 22:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Shows fine now on my Mac. I have no idea what you said above, I don't speak image but it's working -- and that's a good thing :) TravellingCari 23:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Millard House

Thanks for the note, Don. On the Millard House hook, I added the url link later, and linked to the wrong article. The article containing the quote is apparently not available for free access, but the quote in the hook is a direct quote from the article noted. It can be verified by anyone with a Los Angeles Public Library card, which allows access to LA Times archives free of charge. I'll help out some this afternoon with the DYK backlog.Cbl62 (talk) 22:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I found the correct url and also added two more cites for the Wright quote in the DYK hook. I also have reviewed several entries on the DYK Suggestions page to help with the backlog. If you have a moment to re-review the Millard House hook (now that I've fixed the url), that would be great.Cbl62 (talk) 00:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

NY NRHP list additions

You got it ... I didn't add the new listings into the larger tables (Dutchess, Albany) because it was getting close to dinner time and I didn't want to do all the renumbering (We really need to work on that, find some way to have it done automatically). I'm excited ... I knew some of these listings were coming but I didn't expect them all the week before Labor Day. Quite a few are in easy reach from me ... two of Orange County's three newly-listed churches are within walking distance of me (St. Andrew's I took a pic of a few weeks back because I knew it was on the state Register already, awaiting this; Walden United Methodist had been trying to get this for some time, and since I walk or drive past it almost daily I've often thought its dark red High Victorian Gothic look (it was built in the 1890s) would make a great picture if it ever got listed). Christ Church ... Middletown has a disappointingly small number of listings for a city its size and age; now I can add another one of its beautiful churches (and, I realized when putting all the pics in the list, take an actual contemporary pic of Morrison Hall).

BTW, speaking of Middletown, I wonder what we should do about some of the properties that are no longer extant ... Middletown's Oliver Avenue Bridge is gone, as are Hyatt-Livingston House in Dobbs Ferry (burned down, early 1990s), Winchell House in New Windsor (as far as I can tell ... both the HABS report and the NRHP nom from the early 1970s describe a building in an advanced state of deterioration), Poughkeepsie's old City Hall. Maybe we should color-code them black in the infobox. I am really tempted to get a form and nominate them for delisting myself so I don't have to work on the articles. Daniel Case (talk) 03:56, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I meant the Haskell House, yes. Daniel Case (talk) 13:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Cooleemee DYK

Hi Doncram, you earned this one just as much as I did. Thanks so much for your help on it! TravellingCari 19:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

On 31 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cooleemee, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

RHP lists in NY

Well, Franklin and Essex are my home counties, so to speak. I've kind of been picking the low hanging fruit, so far. One of the real problems is that they did a 911 renumbering (grrr!) of all the streets here since some of the better texts on these properties were written, so trying to figure out where a given place is can be tricky. So we'll get there, but it will take a while. Thanks for creating the tables-- they make a great frame for organizing the material. -- Mwanner | Talk 21:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Table-izing Texas RHP lists

I had no idea about the tool. I'll give it try. Thanks Nv8200p talk 21:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

AWB

You are free to use AWB now. :)   jj137 (talk) 22:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on September 14!
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Essex county

I finished off the "to be checked" section of the Essex county list-- I added the Delaware and Hudson station at Ticonderoga, which was the only item missing. You might want to check it's date: I was unclear which date from the NRHP form should be used. Also, I think I saw something here that suggested that you have a renumbering algorithm? If so, it should be run; if not, let me know and I'll do it the hard way.

By the way, I made the mistake of looking at the viewing stats on these list articles-- the results are kinda depressing! One thing that struck me is that, at least for Franklin and Essex, the county article doesn't link to the list. I fixed that for those two, but increasing the number of inbound links to the articles seems like something to consider down the road, eh? TIA, -- Mwanner | Talk 22:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I took it from here, which I've just come across. Didn't occur to me that it could have been delisted, or even a submission not yet approved. In any case, I will pull it from the list, pending clarification. Thanks, -- Mwanner | Talk 23:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008)

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wp:NRHP welcome, and more

Hello and thanks for the welcome, the kudos, and the tips!

As for that NRHP infobox, not being able to find an existing one readily, I actually adapted that from a box added by someone else to an article I wrote on Vollintine Hills Historic District and one of its contributing properties, so please do feel free to edit it in the Easley High School Auditorium article. I'll definitely check out the infobox generator you recommended.

Many thanks!

--Contributingfactor (talk) 01:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Got your message, good. Ah, yes, i see that it was NRHP regular Clariosophic who added the infobox for your nice Vollintine Hills Historic District article. Hope you have that article on your watchlist, i may edit it a bit also, to put the NRHP document reference into a somewhat standardized format, too, which gives explicit credit to the author of the form, given usually in section 11 of the NRHP document. Cheers, doncram (talk) 01:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi, doncram, I copied and pasted here (above) the part of the thread of our conversation you had added to my talk page (not entirely sure of the protocol of talk pages and how best to keep the "conversation" easily referencable). Thanks for cleaning up the formatting of the references on the Vollintine Hills Historic District article. That's a task that's definitely on my "to do" list for NRHP-related articles I've worked on (especially Baron Hirsch Synagogue - a CP of Vollintine Hills) and others. Also, the new infobox on the Easley High School Auditorium article looks really great. The formatting beneath seemed to shift somehow, though, and I don't know how to correct it. There are now several blank lines between the section head "Architecture" and the beginning of the text in that section, yet I don't see any extra blank lines when I switch to "Edit this page" fomat. Can you help, please? Thanks for your guidance. Best regards, --Contributingfactor (talk) 00:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Talkback

I replied here....Thanks. the_ed17 20:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Doncram. You have new messages at The ed17's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

USS Iowa (BB-61)

Following our discussion on the FAR for Iowa class battleship I decided to rebuild USS Iowa (BB-61) without relying on DANFS as a primary source. I would like a second opinion on how well it came out, if you wouldn't mind providing one. If this works out, then we can ween the other three Iowa class articles off DANFS gradually and that should allievate the concerns you have regarding plagerism. TomStar81 (Talk) 02:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK ~ Peshekee River Bridge

On 5 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peshekee River Bridge, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks, Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 17:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

East Hampton (LIRR station)

Wow, what a spectacular job! And doing it for the whole state too! That should get me motivated. Anyway, in looking at the list I didn't see the LIRR Station in East Hampton which I know is on the list (although added in 2000 so your list may be out of date). Again spectacular job and you've done a nice job of getting around "district" expansion issues. Americasroof (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. It's there on the suffolk county list with a photo. I was searching for "train." You've really really, really done a spectacular job. Thanks again!

Trunk Line Bridge No. 1

Could you please check my edit; the former value was likely wrong. Might that be yards? --Matthiasb (talk) 19:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Table-izing

To do everything, I would estimate that it takes me anywhere from about one to four hours per table depending of course upon the state of the page when I begin working on it and the number of entries. I'm working my way through New Jersey now. It took me about an hour-and-a-half to get the Burlington County table up to snuff last night. In that case, someone had already table-ized the list, but with a pretty early version of Elkman's tool, so there was a good bit of editing required to add geocode coordinates and dts2-style dates. It took me about 10 days (approximately 25 hours of total work) to table-ize the 8 Connecticut counties plus Hartford and about 8 or 9 days for the 10 New Hampshire counties. In both cases, I was starting from scratch with the old style lists. Not all of my time is spent working specifically on one page. I spend a good deal of time dabbing links on other pages. For example, when I got to South Congregational Church on the New Britain County, CT page, I went to the Kings County, NY; Sullivan County, NH; and Hampden County, MA pages and dabbed the South Congregational Church links on those pages while I was at it. Until recently, I haven't been taking the time to create dab pages. Now I'm only doing it if at least one of the listings already has a WP article. My focus is on creating the table-ized lists and I'm trying not to get too side-tracked with creating new articles. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

New banner for WikiProject Statistics

Hello, I noticed that you created an alternate banner {{WikiProject Statistics}}. However, User:WolterBot creates Wikipedia:WikiProject Statistics/Cleanup listing from the list of articles that use {{WPStatistics}}. I do not know how the bot works and whether it can accomodate projects that use more than one banner. Unless the bot can identify articles that use either version of the banner, I suggest we use only the original banner. Regards—G716 <^T·_C> 14:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Chemung County

I might be taking a little drive to Chemung County tomorrow. I'm unprepared, listwise. Do you know any way to save an article (such as the List of Registered Historic Places in Chemung County) as a file on my laptop? I don't have a printer, and I'd like to have it with me. When I try saving it as a PDF it cuts off the right side of the article, including the column with the town.Lvklock (talk) 00:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• Newtown Battlefield is the primary aim. I'm taking the rest of the Chemung County stuff to see what else I can grab while I'm there. It's not a bright sunny day (remnants of Hanna moving out - overcast, dry & cool), but hopefully the pics will be ok anyway. Lvklock (talk) 12:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Grand Union Hotel (Newbury Park, California)

Hey, Don. I started updating the stub you created on the Grand Union Hotel (Newbury Park, California), when I realized there was a pre-existing article on the site, using its 20th Century name -- Stagecoach Inn (California). As the current usage is Stagecoach Inn, and that article is pre-exisiting in any event, the Grand Union article should probably be converted into a re-direct to Stagecoach Inn (California). However, I didn't want to make any change, since you were the original author of the stub. If you agree, you may want to consider changing the Grand Union article into a re-direct.Cbl62 (talk) 04:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

So that's were that went!

Hi Dincram. I moved the article page "Doncram/sandbox3" to User:Doncram/sandbox3. Suntag (talk) 23:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

NRHP infobox tweaking

I know this is your area. I have tried to convert the following districts to {{infobox nrhp2}}, but I believe I there is some problem: Old Chicago Water Tower District, Pullman District, Prairie Avenue District, & Printing House Row District. Also, I am having trouble finding the infobox information for Black Metropolis-Bronzeville District.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation of Black Metropolis. As for the other infoboxes, I think they may have one too many headers. I did not know how to add the U.S Reg HD and remove NRHP. They all have both. Some also have landmark district. Not sure if these were all officially district designations or not.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 04:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I have no new FA or GA sumbissions planned. My current cue is Buddy Fletcher and Barry Bonds for GA and WP:CHIFTD for FA. I have a court case next week and am finally doing my 2007 taxes this week. I doubt I will get to anything in my cue for the next few weeks. These curiosities arose while trying to find dates for the Prairie Avenue article while pondering WP:TFAR possibilities.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 11:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I looked at the site you mentioned and I see both a South Loop Printing House District and a South Dearborn Street--Printing House Row Historic District. What is going on here?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Is one an extension of the other?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Washington State Route 339 DYK

I am fine with the changes you made, thanks :) --Admrb♉ltz (talk) 06:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Silliman Church demolition

When I was in Cohoes taking pictures (about five more to come out of that trip), I went to the address, looked at city hall across the street and figured that must have once been the church. But its pics in the NRHP nom weren't the same building, and when I was preparing the city hall pic for upload I googled on the church and found the site I linked to confirming my fear that it was another one we should border in black.

Yeah, go ahead and create the article (You can use any picture you like, even that one there, since any demolished building cannot be covered by a contemporary free image and the "historic" exception to the image policy comes into play). I won't work too hard on it myself, though ... I really think we should just apply to the NPS to have demolished listings (like Poughkeepsie City Hall) removed outright. It's really misleading to the public. Daniel Case (talk) 04:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Registered Historic Places in Los Angeles County, California

Hi, Don, Matthiasb (talk · contribs) left the following note on my talk page: "IMO the Pasadena part should be split off, if you have added all the descriptions the list might be to too long. Anyway, nice work and I am translating this into the German WP. :-)" Several months ago, we had a discussion about splitting Pasadena into a separate list/article, though I think you wanted to wait until the Pasadena part had been more filled out. Unfortunately, not much progress has been made on it, as I've found Pasadena's list so large as to be daunting. I have recently been moving west toward Ventura County, which is more manageable. In any event, I thought I'd pass along Matthiasb's note in case you conclude that the time has come to split Pasadena into a separate list/article. I have no point of view on the timing of the split and defer to your judgment on that.Cbl62 (talk) 16:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Don. If you get a chance to upload your Ventura pics, that would be great. Time permitting, I was planning another Ventura County trip this weekend and could cross the ones off the list that you've already taken.Cbl62 (talk) 20:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and added some introductory text to the Pasadena RHP list and nominated as a joint DYK candidate here.Cbl62 (talk) 04:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Multiple County NRHP entry

I just looked at the entry for the New York Central Adirondack Division Historic District. It covers six counties (!) Essex, Franklin, Oneida, Hamilton, Herkimer, and St. Lawrence. I believe we show it only in Essex (it was the coords in Hamilton County that made me realize there was something funny going on). Anyway, it looks like we need to create entries in the five counties currently missing, using, I guess, the address and coords for the major RR structure in each county? Have you ever dealt with this sort of thing? -- Mwanner | Talk 00:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and yes, I'll add the rows to the other counties and puzzle over the address and coords to use. Cheers! -- Mwanner | Talk 00:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Turns out that it was already in the Oneida list-- apparently they picked up the endpoint counties and missed the four in the middle. I corrected your note at wp:NRIS info issues#identified in another county accordingly, and I have added the other four table entries. Now I need to fix their descriptions. Thanks again. -- Mwanner | Talk 11:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Sherwood, New York

A tag has been placed on Sherwood, New York, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect to a nonexistent page.

If you can fix this redirect to point to an existing Wikipedia page, please do so and remove the speedy deletion tag. However, please do not remove the speedy deletion tag unless you also fix the redirect. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Russ (talk) 14:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

An old steamboat discussion

Hey don,

I noticed this discussion from early August. I thought I would add to it, or mention to you that I emailed the NRHP explicit questions about the copyright status of NRHP/NHL photographs and they responded. This was last year sometime. They stated that the copyright of the photographs is NOT public domain (just like you argued) and that it is held by the photographer. I.E. me, if I nominate a property, or you, or Joe Bob Wilson Smith-Jones. And there is very little we can do to make a fair use argument for any property that is extant, unless it is guarded by an armed private security force (in which case I will get the photo, provided Wikipedia furnishes me with an ArmaLite/Colt AR-15 and a few hand grenades). There is a fair use argument that could be made, even against the Wiki's stringent non-free content criteria for NRHP listings that have been demolished. Just thought I would chime in, and hopefully, in some way, bring a smile to your day. --IvoShandor (talk) 16:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Registered Historic Places in Wisconsin

There's a stray property listed at the end of Wood County that doesn't appear in the Elkman table. I have an educated guess on that one. I was driving in the Wisconsin Rapids area and came across a Wisconsin RHP sign from 1952 that was in very bad shape, and I took pictures of the sign. It was located at a broken and nearly destroyed Centralia Pulp and Paper mill on the Wisconsin River. Centralia was the name of the western half of the city before it merged in the first half of the 1900s. I doubt the property would continue to be listed since it was in really bad shape. Time was short and finding a place to photograph the mill without trespassing looked difficult to impossible. Would you edit the table to reflect a property that was listed and most likely is not listed anymore? Royalbroil 12:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:BLAH

Wikipedia:BLAH, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:BLAH and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:BLAH during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Tikiwont (talk) 13:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Registered Historic Places in Pasadena

On 15 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Registered Historic Places in Pasadena, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Bad coordinates

Over and above the numerous coordinates in the NRHP that are radically wrong, I'm troubled by the fact that, for properties I know well enough to know exactly where they are, the coordinates are all off by between 100 and 200 feet, always to the west, but sometimes due west, sometimes southwest and sometimes northwest. Have you noticed this? Any idea what's going on? There are different reference grids-- something I don't understand very well, but if NRHP were using one grid and Google Maps were using another, that could introduce a systematic error. But if that were the case, you'd expect the error to be always in precisely the same direction. Any thoughts? -- Mwanner | Talk 13:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. That's perfect! Between the 911-system-street-number changes and the change in coordinates, we're lucky if we can find anything at all! Ah, well. And while LeheckaG is doubtless correct that it would be good practice to preserve the old coordinates when correcting them, I'm not sure I'm ready to go there-- I have serious doubts that anyone is going to come along and compare the List coords with the NRHP data, at least not in my little Adirondack counties! Cheers! -- Mwanner | Talk 16:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

RPC of Vernon question

I was surprised to see that you removed the plaque picture from Reformed Presbyterian Church of Vernon: not that I'm opposing it, just surprised, as I had assumed that plaques such as this were somewhere or another on all NRHP buildings. How do you know it's not there: have you visited the site? Nyttend (talk) 14:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Cooleemee Plantation

Hi Don, After reading quite a bit on Cooleemee, I keep running over the same material...and much of it too anecdotal or non-notable for inclusion in the article. To that end, I'd like to say that you did a good job of presenting what needed to be presented and perhaps even better job for what you decided not to include.

Sidenote: Although the sources talk about "Kulimi" & "Cooleeme" in Alabama, I have yet to find those names or anything that resembles them when looking through the Creek Nation tribes (especially the Upper Creek Nation tribes that fought in the Red Stick War and lost after the Battle of Horseshoe Bend). Keep up the good work. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 21:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The September 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fourteen candidates. Please vote here by September 30!
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Lighthouses redux

I've been trying, and failing, to find the note in question - you mentioned in a discussion somewhere that you'd never known of a keeper's dwelling that exists without the lighthouse it served. Something to do with the whole "light station" vs. "light" on the NRHP. As it happens, there are a number of dwellings that survive without lighthouses; most were moved from the station after the light was decomissioned, and were then turned into private residences. Whether or not any of them are on the Register, I don't know; the ones I looked up are not. But they do exist.

Apologies for the vagueness - it hasn't been my morning, really. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 14:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

• De nada - just thought I'd mention it, as it's been burrowing into the back of my mind all day. --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 16:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

moving nrhp articles discussion

There's a discussion about this forming at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Naming discussion for "List of Registered Historic Places in ..." dm (talk) 02:57, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Franklin County

Yes, I've been on a roll lately with Franklin (and a bit less with Essex) County-- two more photos and I'll have all of the Saranac Lake properties covered, which is the bulk of Franklin. Trouble is, after that, the properties are all a bit of a haul for me-- Malone, where the bulk of the remainder are is fifty miles north, so I'm not sure when I'll get up there. And there's one property that can only by reached by canoe and photographed from the water. Meanwhile, I've started adding references for all of the "Summaries". Thanks for the catch on the photo mixup-- it's fixed now. Cheers! -- Mwanner | Talk 00:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I do like the idea of the column heading footnote-- I was not real pleased with the idea of adding a note to each and every entry (though I was prepared to bite the bullet). As for individual articles on each property, I have a real problem seeing that happening on the Cure Cottages-- most of the individual nomination forms have a substantial amount of boilerplate, used in each nom-- the amount of useful info for many of the properties is mighty thin, and there is a great deal of similarity in many of them. (Why they didn't use an MPS approach is beyond me.)

Now, I've noticed that some county lists have town lists pulled out of them-- I'm thinking this might make sense for Saranac Lake, though it's messy since Saranac Lake exists in two counties. But I'm also thinking that using the Cure Cottage article as a basis, one might get rid of the redlinks, and just have the RHP Saranac Lake article cover (most of) the properties once and for all. A handful might support individual articles. Any thoughts? -- Mwanner | Talk 01:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

church disambiguation pages

Hi, thanks for your message. Everything you've done on St.Paul's Episcopal is fine with me and I hope it will avoid further controversy. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 18:03, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Steepletop Farm

Don,

I'm going up to Albany again tomorrow, and have planned my route so I can go through Columbia County, detour through Austerlitz and get some photos of Steepletop Farm, one of the last greater Hudson Valley NHLs we don't have a contemporary image of. I also intend to go to the state museum and get a pic of the half of Springside that's up on the fifth floor.

This in addition to RHPs in Kingston, Hudson (some), and Claverack and along the way. Plus maybe some more from downtown Albany.

The NHL pics, should I get them, will be uploaded tomorrow night after I get home. Daniel Case (talk) 05:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

BS for you

		The Original Barnstar
		A barnstar for Doncram. For all around good editing, and essentially grabbing the NRHP project by the horns and taking it to new and amazing heights. Keep up the good work, thanks for all your contributions. IvoShandor (talk) 10:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

NRHP project, maybe?

How about for the project anniversary, having a drive to get at least two stubs made for every disambig page? To help stop this deletion/move madness. Look how good we did with the NHL push, and it shouldn't take nearly as much time to do the disambigs. If people wanted to stub whole pages, great. But at least two per page would help loads, imho. Just a thought... :) --Ebyabe (talk) 16:02, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Strykersville, New York

Thank you for creating the stub for Strykersville, New York. Would you be able to find more info/take some pictures?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Google Maps

How hard is it do that google map magic? I expect to be in Vermont sometime in the next few weeks, and it would help me see what NHL's I might be able to get if I had one of those handy maps. Lvklock (talk) 01:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your timely help with this. I'll be heading up there Sunday or Monday. Lvklock (talk) 18:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again. Got two NHLs in VT and a couple NRHPs, as well as a few more NRHPs in NY. Lvklock (talk) 01:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Projects on Talk Pages

I actually thought of doing that to all the articles in the project. This would be easy except for the sheer number of articles. I then thought of doing a dual template of sorts if people think that it might be all right. Otherwise i'll try to start doing that. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 01:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm coming from the note that you left on the Cape and Islands project talk page.

Thanks and LAHCM

Thanks, Don, for your support on the RFA nomination. Your comments were very kind and are appreciated. I see we've both been working on the LAHCM article in your sandbox. Trying to create a complete list with all 900+ sites may be unrealistic -- at least in the short term. Also, a list with 900 photos would take forever to load on most computers. I was thinking maybe we could try to get it complete through the first 200 or 250 sites and then simply include a link to the complete list. I thought a complete list of 1-250 would look better than a hit-or-miss incomplete list, but what do you think? Also, at what point do you intend to move it into mainspace? Cbl62 (talk) 04:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Please stop and discuss

(Doncram's comment to User:Remember the dot's talk page, copied here by dot:) You are making many edits to disambiguation pages, while there are discussions open about what practices are correct. For example, in this edit, you remove mention of NRHP for two places. There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)#Proposed text for MOS explicitly allowing red-links and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#what is wp:NRHP doing wrong RE disambiguation?. You just registered disagreement with my opinion at the first one of those. Since there is disagreement, and since we are discussing it there (and i believe either/both of those are fine places), would you please stop editing contrary to opinions expressed there? If it turns out others agree with you, and some consensus is reached, then it would be different. Specifically, I ask in the latter discussion for dab editors to refrain from deleting red-links to NRHP sites, and I ask for them to refrain from deleting mention of NRHPness of individual sites (which I believe helps to deter other red-link-deleters). Please consider that request addressed to yourself, at least until we can reach some agreement at the suitable talk pages. doncram (talk) 01:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The NRHP notice was still there, completely visible to editors so that they'll think twice before deleting the red links, but without interfering with helping readers navigate the encyclopedia. My other changes were:

• Changing "can" to "may" as recommended by MOSDAB.
• Removing the "United States" header, which is unnecessary since the list is so short, and which does not follow the In the '''United States''': style advised by MOSDAB.
• Changing {{POWdis}} to {{disambig}}, bypassing the redirect to avoid confusion.

Do you really disagree with every single one of these changes? —Remember the dot ^(talk) 02:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. No i don't disagree with all. I don't care about "can" vs. "may". At the 2nd discussion linked above, whether to include United States or not is indeed under discussion (I said there i think it is less U.S.-centric to lay out framework that includes it, leaving it obvious that non-US places are welcome). And, there are disambig pages that are mixing in one or two non-US places amidst 10 or more US places, when I think it is better for readers to organize the disambig geographically. About POWdis, I never did really see the reason for having it, so i am not really objecting to replacing it, although i do see some value in it providing a means to find these disambiguation pages (by "what links here" from the template), and I don't see the harm in it. I replaced POWdis by disambig myself in my subsequent edit. Anyhow, i don't see the urgency to change "can" to "may", for example, when there are bigger issues being discussed. If you disagree about the bigger issues, and are editing lots of pages, then it raises questions about what edits you are implementing. In this particular case, i mainly took issue with your edit losing the particular information that each of the listed places is a U.S. NRHP (by deleting the statement at the top that all are NRHPs, although I think it is better for each of them to be identified separately as an NRHP, so that non-NRHPs can be inserted into the list). doncram (talk) 03:14, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

new peer review of List of NHLs in NY

I was just noticing that you had asked for another peer review of this. I don't know how to be critical of the article, both because I don't know what to look for and because I have worked too much on it for much distance. I'll be glad to help however I can with any work required due to the comments, especially anything to do with the descriptions, which I worked a lot on. BTW, did you see my question about Google maps? Just let me know if it's too complicated for you to do or describe to me how to do. Lvklock (talk) 01:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite. I'll be happy to look at the new peer review of this article, but not real soon, as my availability is almost nonexistent for the next couple of days. --Orlady (talk) 01:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley

I'd be interested in getting your input on the format for the SFV HCM list. Just go ahead and modify if you there's something you think should be changed. I'd like to get it in a suitable format before it goes on DYK on Sunday or Monday. Once we have a format we're comfortable with, we can start rolling out other HCM lists for other sectors of the city. Cbl62 (talk) 06:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Edward M. Cotter (fireboat), and Croaker

I didn't know that the Croaker made the list. Thanks for letting me know! Shinerunner (talk) 11:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Your reply to PamD re: Disambig

Your reply to PamD includes this: "So I would not want it to be optional, not required" I'm sure you mean you would WANT it to be optional, as opposed to NOT want it to be optional. I'm following this with interest, though I have chosen not to get involved. Lvklock (talk) 16:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd be willing to add the state specific blue links when you set up a new disambig, if that would help. You MUST be getting frustrated with the discussion of this topic. Lvklock (talk) 21:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Headley - Handley House

I am curious to get your thoughts on moving the Headley - Handley house out of the SFV list. My understanding has always been, as yours, that Runyon Canyon is Hollywood, not Studio City. There were a couple other properties like that. However, I had felt compelled to include the Headley House as being on the SFV side because that's how the city Cultural Heritage Commission places it. See Studio City list of HCMs, including Headley, and compare to Hollywood list here, which does not include Headley]. I frankly think you're right and the city is wrong (on this one and at least one other). Do you still think it's correct for us to move Headley off the SFV list? Cbl62 (talk) 21:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I just saw the other work you put into the SFV list. You make some good distinctions. I was unsure how to deal with the 1000s and the 2000s, and I think you have put it just right. Thanks for the help. Cbl62 (talk) 21:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikis Take Manhattan rescheduled for October 4

Wikis Take Manhattan has been rescheduled for next Saturday, October 4, due to the rain predicted for this weekend.. I hope you can make it to the new time, and bring a friend (or two)!--Pharos (talk) 23:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Don -- Do you know how to import the coordinates for an address? I would like to get the Geo map as complete as time permits before it goes to DYK. If you can show me how to do it, I'll try to do it for most of them. Cbl62 (talk) 04:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the direction, Don. Google Earth seems to be the easiest to me. Cbl62 (talk) 05:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Calumet County Parks

I disagree with your rewording in the article. There are only 2 county parks in the entire county, and the other one is near a different city and it rarely called out as a county park. There is no possibility of confusion as to which park has the registered historic archeological district, it has to be the park by Stockbridge. It has Native American mounds at a place with a great view overlooking Lake Winnebago on the top of the Niagara Escarpment. I'll get a picture the next time that I visit the park. Royalbroil 05:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Chicago Printing Row Districts

I have been having trouble to get the links from Hargis for the two Printing Row Districts in Chicago. When I try to put in Chicago it keeps asking me for the city.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:43, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I had been using the By National Register search. With Query Builder I have been able to get to a list of five including South Dearborn Street -- Printing House Row Historic District, Printing House Row District, and South Loop Printing House Historic District. Clicking report for any of those does not yield anything.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 17:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Note I get the following error: Server Error in '/HARGIS' Application. The underlying connection was closed: Unable to connect to the remote server.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 17:05, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk:NY Route 194

Can you suggest a wording - I am about to edit the template (T:DYK) with a new word in place of victim. But otherwise, I need another wording if you want a change.Mitch32^(UP) 22:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Is that better, I just don't want this DYK removed, as it is my 25th and all.Mitch32^(UP) 22:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

sidewalk clocks and List of National Monuments of the United States

yup, I linked that a long time ago since it seemed crazy to have an article per clock with little to no references beyond that. I thought there was an article, but perhaps not. Sure, I can take a crack at it, but later this week. It's a bit busy here. Anyway, check out the national monuments article. I'm thinking we create something similar for "national historic sites and parks" and use that to pull that table out of the nhl, which would make those critics happy, but still keep the links between the two articles. They are all very much related. Especially with situations like the Grand Canyon np, and the Grand Canyon-Escalante NM, they're adjacent. it's all bureaucracy. dm (talk) 02:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

sortable dates for List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley

Done --Sanfranman59 (talk) 05:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monument

On 30 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monument, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Keep up the good work! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley

On 30 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congrats on the double DYK! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Don -- Thought you'd be interested to know that our San Fernando Valley HCM hook got 13,700 page views today. See [1]. Not bad! Cbl62 (talk) 06:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

DAB pages

With all due respect, I fear that you have let some of the "logic" of the DAB Project participants seep into your brain. I can't make any sense out of the sorting of items on Lewis House and Old Jail. Of course, it is more important that the items be listed than that they be listed in a sensible order, so... --Orlady (talk) 15:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Don, I just did the notices, but have hopefully fixed it. I will make some comments on the NHL in NYS list PR too - sorry to see it did not make FL. Have to run, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: mistake in NRHP list naming

Whoops, I misread the proposal. Sorry. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 16:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Will do, thanks for letting me know. Again, please excuse my messing up. I'm not too familiar with the NRHP. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 16:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Move edit summaries

As I think we discussed during those threads, consensus does not mean it was necessarily unanimous ... I think that's understood in the word itself. That edit summary was meant to justify it to anyone outside the project reviewing the move logs, not rub it in anyone's face. When we delete articles after AfDs where there was some minority for keeping (or take the AfD tag off articles that were closed as keeps), nobody puts anything in the deletion log or the edit summary about how it wasn't a unanimous decision.

If you want, I'll try to at least include a section link to the actual discussion. Daniel Case (talk) 16:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I have been active lately on the photo front. I went hiking with my son up Balsam Lake Mountain and got some pics of the fire tower, and also places in the Catskills on the way there in Ulster, Sullivan and Delaware counties (Pine Hill probably has the two shortest bridges listed on the Register ... you'll have to see the pictures.

Coming up in articles will be one more of the older pics (Wynkoop House) that I'm doing so I can clear stuff from before this year off my hard drive (it's getting full), then we'll be back in Dutchess County for most of the New Hamburg and Chelsea listings (I'm not sure many of the former will have much in the way of DYK possibilities, but we need them). Then it'll be a lot of downtown Troy stuff from that day in late June. Daniel Case (talk) 16:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Meridian, MS Historic Districts

If you remember, there was a big fuss about the exact boundaries of the registered historic districts in Meridian, MS.. well I was just searching around on the city's website, and I found that they've added a link to a pdf that contains the exact boundaries. Image:Meridian, MS Historic Districts.PNG has been updated accordingly and appears on the Meridian, MS page as well; thought you'd like to know! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 21:19, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Nevada

You may want to look at MOS:UNLINKYEARS‎. Seems that you should not be linking dates in tables like this. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes it would be an improvement and looks good. I assume that you are aware of this statement concerning dst2. The template {{dts2}} is deprecated. Please use {{dts}} instead. I believe that if you did that switch, the date links would display in the normal US format and if you set link=off the date would not be linked. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

In praise of your excellent work

Hello! I was doing New Page Patrol and I saw your article on the Halbrook Hotel. That was very nice. Then I checked out your recent contributions -- wow, you are doing wonderful work! I know that your User Page mentions that you are an under-the-radar editor, so please excuse me if I put a spotlight on you with this token of my appreciation:

		The Purple Barnstar
		Because like this barnstar, your work stands out with exceptional vibrancy! Ecoleetage (talk) 15:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Job well done! Ecoleetage (talk) 15:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, you do great work! Ecoleetage (talk) 19:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the Harbor area

Hey, Don. The Harbor HCM article goes on the main page later this afternoon. The only missing HCM photo is Timm's Landing, which you mentioned you had a picture of. If you have a chance to load it this morning, we'll have pics of them all for the main page. Cheers. Cbl62 (talk) 16:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008)

The September 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 22:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the Harbor area

On 6 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the Harbor area, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Powder Magazine (Camp Drum)

On 6 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Powder Magazine (Camp Drum), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Your comment on my talk page

Hi. This is to let you know that I replied to you on my talk page, rather than splitting my reply off from your comment by posting here. --Orlady (talk) 20:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Guy E. Beatty, Jr.

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Guy E. Beatty, Jr., and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://cofc.edu/newscenter/storyDetail.html?id=873. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 20:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Scribner Building(s)

Hi Doncram: First off I want to than you for everything you've done on the National Register stuff. It's probably the most fun I've had with Wikipedia -- especially after discovering the nifty google mashups. It's a great way to take a hike after work. Unfortunately light is dwindling. Anyway, I think there might be an omission on the 14th to 59th Manhattan list. There are two Scribner buildings on Fifth Avenue that appear on the New York application list http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/default.asp One if the one at 155 Fifth Avenue that is listed.(90NR00699). The other is the more famous Charles Scribner and Sons (94NR00530) at 597 Fifth Avenue. I can't find it listed on the usual NHS sites but it's definitely on the NY list. After discovering your work I feel like I'm visiting NY for the first time. Thanks. Americasroof (talk) 01:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Emmanuel Episcopal Church

There's an item on the List of Registered Historic Places in Chemung County, New York that's been listed for a long time (since 1987) but I can't find output for it in the Elkman generator. I know it's still there, I took its picture last month. Have you encountered this before? Lvklock (talk) 16:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If an item doesn't pull up by name on Elkman, which this one doesn't, try checking by city, where you'll find this one. clariosophic (talk) 18:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, now i see. It is one of those mis-named in NRIS as "Epsicopal", rather than "Episcopal". Got it listed already at wp:NRIS info issues. The Elkman NRHP generator has it under the incorrect spelling too, but its an NRIS error not Elkman's fault. Hey, i don't see how to search by city in the Elkman generator, at least not at http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/infobox.php. Clario, did you mean checking on it in an NRIS search site instead? doncram (talk) 19:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, both. I swear I searched by Emmanuel alone yesterday and it didn't come up. Must be user error. :) Lvklock (talk) 19:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Elkman's expanded tool list is at National Register Tools

I've found this other times where the name doesn't pull up for some reason. clariosophic (talk) 20:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Courthouse

Thanks for the note. I'd prefer not to use the helper thing, at least for the time being, because I want to expand it a little more than the basic box: for example, I'd rather avoid errors (not that you necessarily knew that it was wrong) such as listing Logan County at "Public Square", and I want to include the nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com link in the infobox. I may well consider it in the future, however. Nyttend (talk) 16:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation; perhaps I will use it more readily :-) I'm curious: what do you mean about the "Ohio Courthouses book you seem to have"? I don't have such a book, so I don't know what I put down that sounds like I have such a thing. Sorry to have confused you... Nyttend (talk) 16:31, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the note: nothing against what you're doing, but I undid the change; as I've noted on the template talk page, all six counties that you changed have a similarly-named county elsewhere in the USA (for example, Medina County, Texas and Erie County, Pennsylvania), so it's likely that the Ohio courthouses aren't the only ones of those names. Of course, this template is related to NRHP, since so many are on the Register; but if a template like this were made for all states, there would be potential confusion. For example, if someone created an article on the non-NRHP courthouse in Williston, North Dakota, we'd have confusion between that one and the NRHP courthouse in Bryan, Ohio. Nyttend (talk) 13:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Somewhat off topic: having noticed that Stepshep created an article on the Hardin County Courthouse, I added the picture that I took of the building yesterday, only to discover that it made the pushpin map disappear. I remember that you modified the infobox either for the Logan County Courthouse or for Court Avenue to make it display both; could you do the same here? Nyttend (talk) 00:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, Stepshep just did it. Thanks for all your help with these courthouses! Nyttend (talk) 01:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Paine cottage

My sincere apologies for disparaging your contribution in my editing of this article. I was focused on vacuuming up garbage (and possible garbage) added by some of the myriad sockpuppets of banned user whose contributions too often are truly bogus. The NRHP write-up about that house clearly says it's a saltbox; the Greek Revival part is just an added element. I've revised the article to make both aspects clear. For the record, this image is one of several I've seen that clearly show it to be a saltbox. --Orlady (talk) 19:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your contributions to the article on Paines cottage. I would hope that you might re-visit the article to make sure that your edits were not aggressively changed or reverted by a previous user [Orlady]. She has been attributing all edits made to this article (and nmany others from the New Rochelle community) as being the work of a sockpuppet, and has eagerly been using the 'Banned User' rationale to question and revert accurate, well sourced information under the guise that it is 'bogus'. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.225.195 (talk • contribs) 04:37, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

South LA HCMs

Getting edit conflicts. Can you hold off a bit until I finish uploading photos? Cbl62 (talk) 22:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I'm finally done with the article. I submitted the following DYK hook as a joint submission:

• ... that the Historic-Cultural Monuments in South Los Angeles include Ray Charles' recording studio, a stadium that hosted two summer Olympics (pictured), and the early home of the Oscar ceremonies?

If you can think of a catchier one to attract attention, give it a shot. Cheers. Cbl62 (talk) 03:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Don -- Thanks for working on the neighborhood info on the South LA HCM list. One of the difficulties with creating lists for the westside, eastside, southside, etc., is that neighborhood definitions in LA are notoriously imprecise and interpreted differently by different sources. Having once lived south of Pico and east of Robertson, I know that some people thought of it as the westside, and others as the south side. While some use the 10 as the dividing line for the southside, others use Pico. The Cultural Heritage Commission uses Pico (east of Robertson) as the dividing line for the most part (though even they carve out places like Alvarado Terrace as being Westlake, even though located south of Pico). While reasonable minds can differ, I'm inclined to use the City's borders except in cases where there's a clear outlier, like there was for the Williams House or the Gerry Building. A number of the buildings you questioned (e.g., Victoria Park and St. Sophia) are located south of Pico and so I'd be inclined to stick with the Heritage Commission classification on those ones. Cbl62 (talk) 03:01, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Help at Ohio

Hi there, about 3 months ago I listed these new RHPs for addition to the tables. I can't figure out how to make it work without the info like coords. Could you point me in th right direction, for getting the information in? Thanks. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Missed that Cuyahoga had a sublist. To be honest that was the only one I checked, so they're probably all there. I double checked what you said and it looks okay in FF, but not in my regualr browser which is IE8. It's probably one of my odd settings screwing with the way things look then... Thanks for the very fast and thorough response. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 04:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Confused

Where's the Wikipedia etiquette protocol that says you can post a requested move at Wikipedia:Requested moves, invite discussion, then make the move yourself on the basis of lack of consensus? The naming of William Aiken House and associated railroad structures or William Aiken House and Associated Railroad Structures is hardly an earthshaking matter, and I'm not going to touch the title at this point. However, it's confusing to see your request listed in a backlog at Wikipedia:Requested moves when you've already closed it unilaterally, and your action seems disrespectful of the people who expressed their conflicting views at Talk:William Aiken House and Associated Railroad Structures. I would have preferred for a third party to make the decision there. --Orlady (talk) 17:19, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is unusual, and perhaps it was not the right solution. I didn't really know what to do. It does goes against my wish to demonstrate to you that the requested move process could be helpful. But in my view, the discussion there had bogged down, had perhaps died out, and the right conclusion was obvious. In fact I feel some embarrassment at having opened the requested move, and especially at having non-NRHP outsiders come and observe. Honestly, after the additional research of searching google for other usage of the lower-cased name had been done, and after it was very well established that the capitalized name is the official and seemingly only name, it seems to me that further opposition is not justified on any legitimate grounds. What remained was only for you and others to concede, hopefully graciously, but I was afraid that was not forthcoming. I am concerned that you and others might feel you could not, due to reasons of your own which are unstated but are not directly related to the issues of the article name itself. As Ivoshandor's postings conveyed it is possible for one to effectively concede on all the informational matters yet nonetheless oppose (ergo, the opposition must be for other reasons). I considered attempting to close the discussion as the lesser of two evils. Definitely, it would have been better if others participating would make some concessions, and look for points that you can agree with, instead of stating a position and not updating, despite discussion and new information (like the google search results). Given what has been clarified, do you honestly oppose the rename? doncram (talk) 17:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Actually, it appears to me that the association of the house and the railroad structures in that particular historic district is a "forced marriage" related to the fact that all of the property belonged at one time to the Southern Railway, which had been using the house as an office building.[2] I think that far more valuable articles would be written if there were one article about the house (e.g., history and architectural aspects) and a discussion about the railroad structures as part of an article about the history of the railroad. Both articles could include infoboxes about the NHL historic district, but the historic district would not need to be the subject of a stand-alone article. Furthermore, I still believe that "associated railroad structures" is not part of a proper name, but I have better things to do than continue arguing. --Orlady (talk) 19:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Kingston Old Dutch Church designated an NHL

As we expected. It's nice to see Kingston, a beautiful, funky small city with a lot of historic buildings, get an NHL of its own at last (hell, New Paltz has three already!). I think that makes seven for Ulster County now ... ties them with us to their immediate south.

I have added to the NY NHL list and will also update the Ulster list appropriately.

Anyway, to answer your obvious questions:

• No, this was neither of the two Dutch Reformed Church buildings previously listed (it's at Main and Wall streets). So right now the article, "Old Dutch Church (Kingston, New York)" is a redlink. Depending on how long it takes for you to read this, I assume you will create it or, if not, I will do it later.

• But yes, I do have a picture of it already (on one of a couple of trips to Kingston last month). You can't miss it in Kingston's Stockade district (its old, and still rather vibrant, downtown). It's tough to shoot because of the tall spire and trees around the base. It will be a rather long picture not showing the whole building because I had to back into an alley to get it.

Daniel Case (talk) 22:56, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I got the picture and uploaded it. It's actual a stitched vertical panorama of two other pictures ... I knew that was the only way to get the whole building. Daniel Case (talk) 08:26, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I was going to create this, but then found Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/NHLsandbox7 so will leave it to doncram. I have a bunch of references for this church, it's connected to my family history. I'll try to add some of that detail later today. dm (talk) 11:20, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

ROTFL

Thanks for writing William L. Slayton House.--Appraiser (talk) 15:10, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I try. :) Thanks, doncram (talk) 22:03, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in South Los Angeles

On 15 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in South Los Angeles, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:12, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Moore-Turner Garden

Hey, thanks for the little help there. As to the Pioneer Parks thing, I also don't think that there will be any redirects or anything pointing to it from Pioneer Park or anything 'cause it seems like a MUCH lesser known name than Moore-Turner Garden or Moore-Turner Heritage Garden (though I haven't figured which of those to use as the article title yet). Anyway, thanks for piping in! Murderbike (talk) 00:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

First Baptist Church in Newton

Hey, Newton's my hometown. I thought we were trying to standardize church article names to X Church (City, State) regardless of whether it calls itself X Church in City or X Church of City, etc. clariosophic (talk) 18:17, 17 October 2008 (UTC) You just made an update to the infobox that I was trying to make. clariosophic (talk) 18:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks I agree it is First Baptist Church in Newton and there should be no piping in disambig pages: a redirect is better if necessary, or something like XYC Church is now ABC Church. I think the event at FBC in Newton was Samuel Francis Smith's funeral in 1896. I'm sure it was in the church since he's buried nearby in Newton Cemetery and I'm sure it was a well attended and publicized event. I just googled it and all I found was a bunch of rehashes of what I wrote in his wikipedia bio. clariosophic (talk) 18:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

On some NRHP listings I've never been able to figure out the logic of the name chosen for the NRHP, e.g. Church of the Nazarene (Essex, New York). I started the article and then moved it to its present name. Boquet Chapel is probably a more historic name since that is what it was called by St. John's Episcopal Church when that congregation built a new church in Essex. I though NRHP preferred the original name over the name of the current owner. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 18:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

NRHP tables for all the counties in Pennsylvania

I saw that you created a table for all the NRHP sites in Allegheny County, PA. Is there any possiblity of doing that for the rest of the counties in PA. Mvincec (talk) 03:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

replied at Talk:Mvincec. briefly: ok, but it'll take some time. doncram (talk) 17:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in New York

I have added a half-dozen images to National Register of Historic Places listings in New York, which looked a bit barren without them. Of course, I suppose, one could consider adding one photo per county at 100px, a la the county articles. While looking at the list, it struck me that the first column, the ordinal number, serves little purpose, other than to be a trial to update. Why not strip it out? Just a thought. -- Mwanner | Talk 16:49, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

That's a nice selection of images. I think their value for users would be increased, however, if the captions also identified the city and county where each of the properties is located. I agree with you that the ordinal numbers are unnecessary, but they should not pose a problem for updating the table because New York is not in the habit of forming new counties. --Orlady (talk) 17:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's move this discussion to Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in New York. I explained/commented there about the ordinal numbers, am scrounging around for a good example format. It's worth figuring out a good model. And yes, there won't be any new counties in NYS anytime soon. Thanks. doncram (talk) 17:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

NY oprhp website

Do you have any idea how long it takes them to add new nomination documents to the site? Chemung county has one added in May, 2008 that I keep looking for. Lvklock (talk) 17:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Nope. doncram (talk) 17:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Bernice P. Bishop Museum

You're kidding right? A 73-year old woman that nobody has ever heard of criticizes the museum for a mistake made by the Maritime Center, and suddenly she's a reliable authority on the Bishop Museum because she's quoted in the NYT? Yeah, your edit summary was accurate, in that you "mention museum ship and controversy with source." Unfortunately, it's a non-issue, which you would have realized if you had presented the other side like the Honolulu Weekly. Here's your opportunity. Viriditas (talk) 12:10, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Now I see you've added the same, silly accusatory claim to Falls of Clyde. NPOV. Let me show it to you. Viriditas (talk) 12:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing this issue so fast. I think we can work something out for Falls of Clyde without any dispute, but I don't think the material belongs on the museum article. I've done some research on the topic and I've discovered that the recent news articles barely covered the topic, omitting some of the most important information. In other words, the newspapers were trying to stir up a controversy where really none exists. I'm going to put this on hold for a week so that I can get some much needed distance on the subject, but after that time, I'm probably going to make some changes. For what it is worth, I appreciate the work you are doing on these topics. Viriditas (talk) 07:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Jackson County Courthouse

Hello: You're right, I was unaware of the discussion you referred to. I'll take a look at it and leave the disambig page alone for now. Propaniac (talk) 15:46, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Extinct settlements

Please have a look at this proposal for a new project (ExtinctSettlments) and add your votes and/or views. I am canvassing as many interested people as I can and your name was on a relevant project list. Folks at 137 (talk) 18:37, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

How do people add articles if . . . ?

How do people add articles about NRHP buildings/sites from the wikipedia lists that are being automatically attributed to some person that has been banned, and therefore, are flagged and removed each time? It is preposterous that such a rationale is actually being applied to such a non-controversial topic like ' registered historic locations '. I noticed this happening this morning after reading a redirect you made for the post office and then not seeing the article at all. <very weird> anyway, you seem to have done alot of work in this area, perhaps you can figure this out? You wont be able to lookup the histories of these articles b/c they have been removed as well. I will attach the <body> of the articles as they have appeared before for your reference> (minus the links + ref sections and footers so its not TOO long). Thanks!

Rochelle Park-Rochelle Heights Historic District

Rochelle Park-Rochelle Heights Historic District
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
Location	New Rochelle, New York
NRHP reference No.	05000664
Added to NRHP	July 6, 2005

Rochelle Park-Rochelle Heights Historic District is a historic residential district located in the city of New Rochelle in Westchester, New York. Incorporated in the early 1900's, the neighborhood was one of the first planned communities in the United States, and features unique, architecturally significant homes nestled around its main common areas - "The Lawn" and "The Court".

It was added to the National Register of Historic Places on July 6th, 2005.

Davenport House

Davenport House
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
File:Davenport House.JPG
Location	157 Davenport Road, New Rochelle, NY
Architect	Multiple, A.J.Davis
Architectural style	Gothic Revival
NRHP reference No.	80002791
Added to NRHP	April 13, 1980

The Davenport House is is a historic residence located in the City of New Rochelle, in Westchester, New York. The home was constructed in 1875. It was added to the National Register of Historic Places on April 13, 1980.

Wildcliff

Wildcliff
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
File:WildcliffNR.JPG
Location	42 Wildcliff Road, New Rochelle, NY
Architect	Alexander Jackson Davis
Architectural style	Gothic Revival, Tudor Revival
NRHP reference No.	02001656
Added to NRHP	December, 31, 2002

"Wildcliff" (also known as the Lawton, Cyrus, House) is a historic building in the City of New Rochelle in Westchester, New York.

The impressive stone villa was designed by the renowned architect Alexander Jackson Davis, and completed in 1855 for the Davenport family. The stone “gothic villa” was enlarged in 1865 and again in 1919. Owner Clara Prince donated her home and its one and a half acres of land to the City of New Rochelle in 1940. After having been utilized for city offices the building has housed a variety of not-for-profit groups and functions, including Wildcliff Natural Science Center and East Coast Performing Arts.

The house was added to the National Register of Historic Places on December, 31, 2002.

Lispenard-Rodman-Davenport House

Lispenard-Rodman-Davenport House
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
Location	180 Davenport Avenue, New Rochelle, NY
Architectural style	Late Victorian
NRHP reference No.	86002637
Added to NRHP	September, 22, 1986

The Lispenard-Rodman-Davenport House is a historic residence located at 180 Davenport Avenue in the City of New Rochelle in Westchester, New York. It was built in 1696 by Antoine Lispenard, one of the founding members of New Rochelle. The bottom half of the exterior is stone, while the top half is clapboard. In the early days, the roof was pitched but was later razed and is now mansard. The mortar used is a mix of mud and crushed oyster shells and this is still what holds the bricks.

The house was added to the National Register of Historic Places on April 13, 1980.

Pioneer Building (New Rochelle)

Pioneer Building
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
Location	14 Lawton Street, New Rochelle, NY
Architect	New,John & Son
Architectural style	Italianate
NRHP reference No.	83004217
Added to NRHP	December, 29, 1983

The Pioneer Building is a historic building in the City of New Rochelle in Westchester, New York. It was added to the National Register of Historic Places on December, 29, 1983.

U.S.Post Office (New Rochelle, New York)

U.S.Post Office (New Rochelle, New York)
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
File:NRPostOffice.JPG Post Office in 1940
Location	New Rochelle, NY, USA
Architect	Frederick D. Frost
Architectural style	Art-moderne
NRHP reference No.	88002413
Added to NRHP	1989

[Image:USPO New Rochelle jeh.JPG|thumb|right|240px]

The main U.S. Post Office in New Rochelle, New York, USA, is located at 255 North Avenue, at the intersection of North Avenue and the Boston Post Road (South). It currently serves the 10801, 10803 and 10805 ZIP Codes, covering portions of New Rochelle and neighboring Pelham and Pelham Manor.

The building was designed in the art-moderne style by New Rochelle resident architect Frederick G. Frost. It was dedicated on June 18, 1938 as part of the city's 250th anniversary celebrations. The interior features 3 depression era murals funded by the Federal Government's Works Project Association(WPA). Each was created by the artist David Hutchison, depicting scenes from New Rochelle history; "The Huguenots Lay the Foundations of the City of New Rochelle", "John Pell Receives Partial Payment for 6,000 Acres", and "The Post Rider Brings News of the Battle of Lexington".

The post office was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1989.

First Presbyterian Church and Pintard, Lewis, House

{{Infobox nrhp2 | name = First Presbyterian Church and Pintard, Lewis, House
  | nrhp_type = 
  | image = 
  | caption = 
  | location= [[New Rochelle, New York]]
  | lat_degrees = 40
  | lat_minutes = 54
  | lat_seconds = 16
  | lat_direction = N
  | long_degrees = 73
  | long_minutes = 47
  | long_seconds = 7
  | long_direction = W
  | locmapin = New York
  | area =
  | built/founded = 1710
| architect= [[John Russell Pope]]
| architecture= [[Colonial Revival]]
 | added = [[September 7]], [[1979]]<ref name="nris">{{cite web|url=http://www.nr.nps.gov/|title=National Register Information System|date=2008-10-22|work=National Register of Historic Places|publisher=National Park Service}}</ref>
 | governing_body = Private
 | refnum=79001648
}}

First Presbyterian Church and Pintard, Lewis, House are landmark buildings located in the downtown section of New Rochelle, New York, USA.

John Russell Pope, architect of the national Jefferson Memorial, designed this Colonial Revival-style church, which replaced the congregation’s original structure destroyed by fire. The Presbyterian Church had its origins in the French Church established by early Huguenot settlers. The adjoining minister’s home, one of New Rochelle’s oldest remaining houses, was constructed in part by Huguenot descendant Pierre Vallade in the late 1760s. Following Vallade’s death in 1770, his widow married Lewis Pintard, local businessman and Revolutionary War patriot who was appointed by George Washington to be the Commissar for American prisoners in the City of New York during British control. His son, adopted from his deceased brother, founded the New York Historical Society, served as secretary of the New York Chamber of Commerce, and was elected first Sagamore of the Tammany Society.

To recognize its historic significance, this property was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1979 and the New York State Register in 1980.

History of Church

The First Presbyterian church in New Rochelle, New York was incorporated in 1808, originally adopting for its name the "Presbyterian Church in the Town of New Rochelle, formerly known by the name of the French Church". In 1812, a sum of twelve hundred dollars was left to the church in the will of William Henderson who also bequeathed money to New Rochelle for the erection of a Town Hall. The money left to the church was specifically provided to be used for the erection of a Presbyterian "Meeting House", and was enough to make substantial provisions for the first church.

In 1814 the easterly section of the plot of land just above the junction of Main and Huguenot streets was purchased and a wooden church was erected thereon in 1815. The plot of land was enlarged in 1827 by the purchase of property from the estate of Lewis Pintard, deceased. This church continued to be used by the religious group until 1860 when it was removed to the north-west side of Huguenot street, directly opposite from the original site, and was used as the parsonage for more than half a century. In 1860-61 a new church was erected on the original site, built with field stone from the area, with a tower and spire at its south corner.

The church was greatly damaged by a fire that occurred on May 26, 1926. Thereafter the property was sold, the building demolished, and the church was succeeded by the present First Presbyterian Church (Pintard Church) at Pintard Avenue and Marvin Place, erected in 1928-29.

NY Post Offices dab

Not at all. Go ahead. That's sort of what they were before, anyway.

BTW, update on what I will be creating soon and what I've recently photographed:

• Soon to be created: All the Troy articles for the photos I shot on that same day in late June when I got the Gurley Building photograph (I may take the trouble of expanding that article as well). It turns five of the historic districts listed (River Street, Fifth Street, Second Street, Washington Square and one of the other ones) have essentially been superseded by the much larger Central Troy Historic District, saving me the trouble of writing individual articles for them (I think I'll make those links redirects but keep them and the pictures I went to such trouble to take in the Rensselaer County table (and eventually I'd like to spin Troy off as a separate list), as well as have short paragraphs on them in the Central Troy HD article. There are still two other HDs and plenty of buildings in downtown Troy, though.

• Recently photographed. Last weekend I went up to northeastern Dutchess County with my son and we got the places listed for Amenia and Millerton (Most of them, anyway ... because the addressing was changed for 9-1-1 since the house was listed, I hope one of the two houses I photographed was Lewis Mumford's, and either the Hendrick Winegar House has been demolished or greatly renovated. Big prize up there was the Coleman Station Historic District ... a nice large (like, several square miles) rural one, with open views up into Massachusetts and Connecticut. And all five of its separately listed contributing properties. We also got some places near the Taconic and in Millbrook on the way up. Then on Sunday we headed up on this side of the river into Ulster County and finally made a dent in the Town of Rochester and its multitude of stone houses. Daniel Case (talk) 14:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/National Register of Historic Places featured properties and districts

Check out my newest comment at the above. Lvklock (talk) 17:25, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Closed as keep. Feels like a victory to me. Lvklock (talk) 02:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: NRHP tables

Thanks for the response, especially as I didn't ask you specifically :-) Due to lunch and schoolwork, I didn't see Elkman's response until after reading your note about him posting it; I'm quite glad to see that the generator's operator chimed in. I have several questions, though:

• As far as Sanfranman's table: do you mean that he has a complete table with all the county tables, so time that I spent on it would ultimately be rather useless?

No, not at all. What he has is a spreadsheet of the very newest listings, country-wide, by date order, built by collecting from the separate NPS new weekly listings webpages indexed at http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/nrlist.htm. For example "ARIZONA, COCONINO COUNTY, Sedona Ranger Station, Brewer Rd. S. of Hart Rd., Sedona, 08000810, LISTED, 8/29/08". You would have to visit each of the NPS weekly listings to collect the Kansas ones. I already asked him to comment to you, it will be clearer when he does. doncram (talk) 19:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

• As far as "paste in Elkman tables in one edit" etc., are you advising me not to post any more tables until I have all the counties' tables ready to go (for example, make up the remaining eighty Kansas tables before I post any more than the current twenty-five), or do you mean that I should refrain from making related changes (such as fixing typos, etc.) in edits that post tables, or do you mean something else?

No, I meant, literally, you could in one edit labelled "Paste in 3 county tables", do exactly that, inserting those tables before the old lists for those counties but not deleting those old lists in the same edit. Then, in subsequent edits, revise the tables to incorporate any useful information in the old lists, and delete the old list entries. For example, the Brown County section in List of RHPs in KS has a bluelink for Davis Memorial to a description of that memorial within Hiawatha, Kansas article. You want to capture that useful link in the table, you don't want to just delete the old info and replace it with a red-link to "Davis Memorial". doncram (talk) 19:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

• Regarding naming: I prefer to go with standards, so I'll not change things around this way anymore. I do, however, find it rather unnecessary to include the city name for courthouses: because they're directly related to the county, there can only be one of them per name per state, barring the unusual chance that an old courthouse in one community and a newer courthouse in another are both listed. It's as if (going to geography, more my specialty) a state had a law that no two townships could have the same name: while we need to have county names in township article names for townships in Ohio (where there are 43 Washington Townships), we don't need to have county names in township article names in that other state (i.e. "Washington Township, Oddstate" would suffice), since we can't have more than one. Consequently, I think that courthouses could reasonably continue to be excluded from including the name of the community. Nyttend (talk) 18:53, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, that is to be discussed. I won't change the county courthouse names without opening discussion at wt:NRHP. But, in very many counties, there are several old courthouse buildings still existing, and there are many instances where the location changed towns in the county, and there are many cases where an older courthouse was torn down and the current one is the 3rd on the spot, or whatever. So I think just the state name is not specific enough to be appropriate, in general, and it would be consistent to just be consistent with the general naming convention....anyhow, thanks for your comment, and this to be discussed elsewhere. doncram (talk) 19:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your continued help. Sanfranman has replied, offering me the spreadsheet by email, so hopefully that will come through soon. I generally prefer to be efficient with edits, but if it's more convenient I'll be willing to make multiple edits in the way that you explained it (as long as I can remember it!); is this, by the way, why you had both table and basic list in this edit? Nyttend (talk) 04:09, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

---

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		In recognition of the great job you've done with the NRHP tables, I'm awarding you this Barnstar! Rosiestep (talk) 19:32, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

And I'll take a look at some of the California county tables/lists and see if I can delete some of the lists.

Bedford

Doncram, why don't you just please leave Bedford alone? He is not personally coming after you or the articles you edit in any way that I can see. Whether you admit it or not, his articles and what he contributes to wikipedia does have value. Just because it is not up to you standards, is no reason to do this. This is just a suggestion. :) Happy editing. Charles Edward 22:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your no-doubt-meant-to-be-helpful comment. But i don't see it as me coming after him in any way, rather, his putting forward offensive and otherwise deficient new articles at DYK, for display on the front page of wikipedia, is coming after me and everyone else. I occasionally submit DYK nominations myself, or choose to spend some time reviewing there, and can't help but see them. And the pending breezily posed one about rape is just awful. doncram (talk) 01:32, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

County couthouses

I would be hesitant to start adding city or town names in front of the state, because only in very rare instances will such disambig be necessary: e.g. when a couny seat was moved from one town to another or when the county has two seats as in Coffee County, Alabama. Palace Theaters or Theatres can be very numerous. Florida for instance, had a large chain of movie houses by that name. Best wishes. clariosophic (talk) 22:43, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Lyceum-The Circle Historic District

On 25 October, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Lyceum-The Circle Historic District, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thank you for your nomination! - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 04:50, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Wolf Mountain Battlefield

Take a look at this article. Do you think it needs anything else before going to mainspace? Any ideas for a DYK? Lvklock (talk) 18:57, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. About the coal bed methane....it seems to apply much more to the Rosebud Battlefield than this one. What do you think about moving it there? Lvklock (talk) 23:19, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Certainly mention it in the Rosebud article then, of course. But doesn't it apply in the Wolf Mountain area as well? You know more than i do now though, so whatever u judge as best is fine with me. Thanks. doncram (talk) 23:39, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

NRHP Tables of Pennsylvania

I'm sorry if this doesn't go in the right talk page area. I'm new to the user talk pages. Anyway, good job on the NRHP tables that you've done so far. To answer your question, I write pages for sites in the Pittsburgh area, but you've already done most of tables for them. Allegheny, Armstrong, Beaver, and Butler are the counties I usually hang around in. Again good job with the tables. Mvincec (talk) 20:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Confirmation of Copyright Status - William W. Early House entry

Per your request, this morning I contacted the Maryland Historical Trust, the principal operating unit within the Division of Historical and Cultural Programs, which is an agency of the Maryland Department of Planning, to inquire about the copyright status of materials included in the Maryland National Register database. I received the following reply:

RE: Inquiry to the Maryland Historical Trust

Sent By: 
"C Kegerise" <CKegerise@mdp.state.md.us>   On: Oct 10/29/08 9:37 AM 

To: "Ted Hull" <ted.hull@comcast.net> Cc: "M de Sarran" <MdeSarran@mdp.state.md.us>

Mr. Hull,

Thank you for your email to the Maryland Historical Trust. Information in the National Register database is in the public domain and may be used in publications and other materials, provided that the entry is properly cited in footnotes and the bibliography.

Best,

Cory R. Kegerise Administrator of Local Preservation Programs Maryland Historical Trust

Therefore, I request that my original article on the William W. Early House be returned. I believe I have properly cited the source for the text in my article. Thank you for your concern about the copyright status of the material included at that page --- Ted Hull --Pubdog (talk) 13:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks; I have commented further at Talk:William W. Early House (Brandywine, Maryland) where this same information is also provided. doncram (talk) 15:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: [3]

I think that it is right..see this Google Books search. It looks as though the para in Hoga is quoted from that book, so I think that we are fine. Thanks for helping! —Ed 17 for President _{Vote for Ed} 00:45, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Marshall Hall, Maryland

Marshall Hall isn't in Bryans Road - suggest that you move it back Tedickey (talk) 10:19, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Creating dab pages

Hi Doncram ... Re your message on my talk page about creating dab pages, my M.O. has been to check for ambiguous links when I create new NRHP tables. When I come across one, I go ahead and modify the links in whatever NRHP tables the ambiguous name appears. Quite often, none of the sites have an existing WP article and since my primary task is to create the NRHP table I was working on and that dab pages with only red links are a Wikipedia no-no (I think?), I prefer not to get too side-tracked in creating a new article just to keep a dab page from going to AfD. Sometimes I go ahead and create the dab page if one of the sites has an article, but I have to admit that I've not been consistent with this.

Sorry to hear that you're cutting back on your WP time. You do a lot of great work out here for the project. --sanfranman59 (talk) 03:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Brewster House

A tag has been placed on Brewster House, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. BurhanAhmed (talk • contribs) 15:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Speedy request denied, as nonsense, by Nancy. -- Mwanner | Talk 15:51, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: 131 Charles Street and NRHP sites

On User talk:BlastOButter42, Doncram said:
Hi BlastOButter42 -- I noticed your prod deletion proposal for 131 Charles Street and I removed that. Your statement was to the effect that other than it being a landmark, it may not be notable. But, being a NRHP-listed landmark DOES make it notable. I certainly agree the article could be developed to better explain how and why it is notable, but it is notable. The NRHP listing would not have occurred if it was not notable on architectural grounds or for association with historic events or people or otherwise meeting NRHP criteria. And, for wikipedia notability and verifiability, there are extensive docs about every NRHP site available. I myself can't develop the article right now, but for this New York state one, docs could be found by searching here, by the way. So, tagging with "expand" or something would be appropriate, but not putting up for deletion, in my view. Thanks for listening! doncram (talk) 01:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Mmkay, but it needs some serious work in that case. -- BlastOButter42 ^See Hear _Speak 05:01, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I went to develop this a little. Elkman was there before me, and between us it should be fine for now. Lvklock (talk) 06:12, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Elm Bluff, a New York townhouse in the Deep South

Hey, we had briefly chatted about New York and Alabama architectural connections awhile back, so I thought that you might find this place interesting: Elm Bluff Plantation. It was built by a New Yorker from Staten Island. His sister's house, the LaTourette House in Richmond County, NY is on the NRHP and the two houses share some design characteristics. Elm Bluff isn't on the NRHP or, as far as I can tell, on the Alabama Register of Landmarks and Heritage either, so I probably will not be able to write an article about it. Myself and some friends took a long field trip yesterday and finally found it after trudging through the woods for a few hours. I just found it and its history to be quite interesting. Altairisfar_talk 23:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey, that's an idea, it probably could be worked in. Sorry to here you're not going to be as active for a bit. Hope everything is okay. I took a long wikibreak myself for several months, but mine was due to frustration. Talk to you later. Altairisfar_talk 14:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Jackpot

Take a look at this: an illustrated inventory of (apparently) all "classified" structures in the National Park Service. I've added a note at WP:NRHP. Acroterion _(talk) 22:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

West Virginia NHL

I'm almost done looking at every NHL article for the second time. I'm concerned about Traveller's Rest (West Virginia) which is linked from List of National Historic Landmarks in West Virginia (no. 13). According to the NPS, the NHL site is in Kearneysville, West Virginia in Jefferson County, West Virginia. Since Traveller's Rest (West Virginia) is ownwed by the Mineral County historical society, and the two counties are not even adjacent, I think the article covers the wrong site. Since you worked on both the list and the article, I thought I'd run it past you. Thanks.--Appraiser (talk) 19:04, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXII (October 2008)

The October 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Wisconsin County NRHP map

I was going through my archive index and found something that didn't look familiar. 4 months ago you asked if I could make a Wisconsin clickable map. I'm really sorry it looks like I never responded. I've started it right now and should be done by the end of Saturday. Sorry again! §hep • ¡Talk to me! 22:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Now I feel like a bad person and a liar. The online thing-a-ma-jig I use keeps crashin' my cpu. I'll report here when I get something worked out. Sorry...again. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:28, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

George R. Kress

OTRS has received a request that you contact the AOL user whose username is Rupertknor - it's got something to do with the Kress house and the photo thereof.

I'm sure you know how to convert that into an e-mail address, right? DS (talk) 13:18, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXIII (November 2008)

The November 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 16:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Sotterley and Resurrection Manor

I am wondering whether it was you or User talk:Acroterion who added the comment to Sotterley (Hollywood, Maryland), about Resurrection Manor? I found some authoritative data on the latter and created an article on that delisted property. TIA --- Ted--Pubdog (talk) 21:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Could you please take a look?

User:Dmadeo/nnl-ny I've put some time into creating most of these articles. I've asked Daniel Case to look them over and I think you'd find them interesting as well as adding great value too. Thanks dm (talk) 08:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Main pages with misplaced talk page templates

Greetings. I was hoping you might consider editing both User:Doncram/NHLtemplate and User:Doncram/VAtemplate as they currently transclude templates that should only exist on talk pages, causing the pages themselves to be included in Category:Main pages with misplaced talk page templates. After months of cleanup, I have nearly emptied this category. As you have edited Wikipedia within the last 30 days, I have not edited said pages themselves, hoping that you might consider doing so. Thank you! JPG-GR (talk) 20:13, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

List of National Historic Landmarks in Alabama

Hey, just wanted to let you know that I've nominated List of National Historic Landmarks in Alabama for a featured list assessment. We'll see how it goes! Altairisfar_talk 20:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I like the one with the new key and the map coordinates brought to a more prominent spot. The photo probably wouldn't pass, I didn't understand the copyright rules as well as I do now when I uploaded it. I don't believe it had been published prior to Gamble's book. Altairisfar_talk 04:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

FLC

Just a general note on FLC pages. I notice you struck out a comment of mine you resolved. Whilst on this occasion I do not mind, it is usual to let reviewers strike their own comments out. (See Supporting and objecting) If you have addressed a concern, just note it as "Done" underneath or use {{done-t}}. Generally people don't strike out others comments as it allows a reviewer who is revisiting the candidate page to see what changes he has not reviewed yet, and check them before striking them out.

Sorry if it seems like I'm making a big deal out of this. I don't mean to, I just thought I'd let you know, because I am assuming it is a practice you are not aware of. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh! Okay, thanks for explaining. doncram (talk) 00:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

No problem. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 00:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Kansas list

Thanks for the comments; it really helps to have someone else who understands more :-) I've been recovering from surgery just last week (perhaps you saw the get-well notes on my talk page); although I'm able to function quite well, I don't always remember the standard procedures for something I've not worked in for a while. It's pretty bad that we get a Kansas property listed in Missouri...do most states have at least one property that's listed outside of their borders? Nyttend (talk) 05:10, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

One question, by the way: after finishing Kansas, I was uploading some pictures I took of houses in Cleveland in August to the Cleveland list, most of which are named for the locally significant people for whom they're named. I googled these men (for example, Jeremiah Ensworth and Phillip Gaensslen), actually finding some information about them on a set of websites run by a company that owns the houses, but virtually nothing more could I find otherwise. Does the Register keep data on the people for whom listed properties are named? Nyttend (talk) 05:14, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

I almost forgot: have a happy Christmas! Nyttend (talk) 05:15, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

When you get a chance, could you check the categories at Phillip Gaensslen House? I just created this article, and wasn't sure if all the categories I placed were appropriate: of course, 1870 architecture and Buildings and structures in Cleveland, Ohio are appropriate, but I'm not as certain about Churches in Cleveland and Wi-Fi providers, which I placed because it was once a church and is now used by a wireless Internet company. And (if you get this message before midnight): have a happy-rest-of-your-Christmas! Nyttend (talk) 22:56, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Response

I generally prefer to reply at your page; I hope you don't mind? If you'd rather I reply on my page in the future, tell me and I'll try to remember.

When I work on a project, I know I'm somewhat nervous when others change the formatting, even if it's obviously progress; if I were in your place, I'd always verify when people added the tables :-) Basically, I copied the table into a Notepad file, copied the list for the county (in the simple list format the way it was before I came to it) to the top of the file, and merged the two: I looked at each listing on the table, found it in the list, and removed it from the list after making sure that the name of the property in the table was formatted in the same way as the list had formatted it. This I continued until all table entries were checked, after which I dealt with new listings: because I had removed only the names in the table, the entries added after Elkman were still visible. At this point, I would copy in the data from the recent listings page for each entry (i.e. the data that you've copied above that comes in all capital letters), and place the data into a standard Elkman-style table entry.

Going to your questions:

• As far as the Graham house: I added the table two months before it was listed; the house was added in this edit last week, when Dtbohrer was adding recent listings.
• I know of no new way to get coords; I would simply find the site on Google Maps and put it into this Google-based page, which gives coords; if there were no address given, I'd find the location by satellite, or sometimes by Mapquest's aerial pictures, before going to the other website. This is the website I use for all coord-finding purposes, including adding location templates to my pictures. Sorry that I can't help you; I too would be interested in a new way of getting the coords, as I can't quite figure out how Elkman gets them in the first place. Can you explain that, if you know? I assume it's something dependent on data given by the NRIS, but if so I don't know how to get it.

Thanks for checking my work! Nyttend (talk) 12:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help; I guess I'll stop wondering where to look to find those coords on the NRIS. And thanks too for the compliment :-) I saw your message about the Southworth House picture, and have since reworded the quote to prevent confusion. One question: do you ever work with good articles? I self-nominated the house for GA, as I myself thought it either (1) passed the criteria, or (2) could easily be made to pass the criteria. In all fairness, I know that GAs aren't htat common, that it likely takes a lot more work to produce a GA, and that it would be extremely unlikely for a newly-created article to pass GA immediately. If you're familiar with the process, could you tell me what you think? Thanks for being so quick to reply! Nyttend (talk) 21:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)