Derekcohen

"Gay Left"

First Comment

Ok here's the current problem with the article (I went in and tried to clean it up a bit - but really this is on you since I don't know much about the topic). You need sources. Obviously given the lack of talk page I can assume your a new user, so here's the most handy thing you'll ever need. The <ref></ref> tag. It'll get a bit more complicated later, but here's the basics. To site a source, type:<ref>[http://sourceurl.com]</ref> - which produces this (I'm likning to google since it's an example). Now at the bottom of the page, if there isn't one already there, type:

====References==== (usually you would only use 2 equal signs (==Heading==))
<references/>

Which does this (notice the link to google where the references/ tag is:

References

So find sources to back up the statements in your article and then you can probably save it from deletion.danielfolsom 15:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Second Comment

What To Get

Hey Derek - I'll reply to both your comments on the talk page.

1. You'll need a source for every fact that you say - and since this is a long article you'll need a lot (oh, speaking of which I have more to say about the ref tag, gimme a second). So if you say when they were formed it needs a source, when you say how many are in it you need a source, when you say it produces a journal, you need a source.
2. You can get whatever is easier for your - PDFs or plain websiote.

More About the Ref Tag

I just remembered that you would probably be needing to use a source more than once, due to some time constraints, I'll just do a quick example and outcome - it's pretty basic, but if you have any questions just come to the talk page. Essentially this allows you to use one source more than once (since i marked google as a ref above, it'll also show up under the refernces tag ... sorry about that).

'''Code'''
Fact goes here.<ref name="New York Times">[http://newyorktimes.com]</ref> Second fact that can be attributed dto the same source.<ref name="New York Times" />
====References==== (again, usually you'll just use 2 equals (==heading==))
<references/>

Result
Fact goes here. Second fact that can be attributed to the same source (notice how the number is the same, whereas the google one above is a 1).

References

Notice how despite you use the reference twice, by identifying the name, you can have it go to the same number (the a and b show the instance, if you go to a long page, find a tag with a and b next to it and you can see what it does - I can't really explain it here), but if you didn't do the <ref name="..."> - then it would have two different links under references.danielfolsom 19:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC) Does the fact that I and other people were there at the events count as "evidence"? Derek

Your edit to Gay Left

Message posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007

Please do not post copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder, as you did to Gay Left. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites (http://www.gayleft1970s.org/ and http://www.gayleft1970s.org/intro.asp in this case) or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.
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Butseriouslyfolks 03:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I cannot reply via the talk page for Gay Left as the page has disappeared.

On copyright, I am the web master of gayleft1970s.org.uk. The introduction by Jeffrey Weeks was commissioned by me explicitly for that web site and for use on other web sites. I am one of the copyright holders for that site and its content.

I will send an email from gayleft1970s.org Derek

Gay Left

Ok I'm on it.danielfolsom 17:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok I worked on it a bit - now you should try to find some citations and I'll finish it up once your done - I'll look for categories we can add it to.danielfolsom 17:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Any luck finding sources? I just found this - you might want to look at it to see if it has any info you want to add, or we could just put it in the external links.danielfolsom 17:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh and one more thing - just to let you know I think once we're done editting we should move the article to Gay Leftdanielfolsom 17:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure which bits need citation. Obviously the references to specific articles in Gay Left will have References. The table of who was in the collective was compiled form the mastheads of the ten issues. Also any names in the article (including members of the collective) will have Wikipedia references as many of the members have their own pages Jeffrey Weeks Angus Suttie Emmanuel Cooper Richard Dyer etc

That it met alternate Fridays and Sundays I confirmed from my own diary (you can see form the table I was a member of the collective for nine years) but don't see how this can be a citation. The Gay Left book I can provide a link to Amazon or better just add (Gay Left Collective, (editors), (1980), "Homosexuality: power and politics", Allison and Busby, ISBN 0850313759) if that's what's needed.

Lesbians contributing - should I include references to the issues where such articles appeared?

Thanks Daniel Derek

Oh sorry it took me so long to respond - I wasn't watching your talk page. Pretty much every fact needs citations. That means you'll need a citation when you say you have 15 members, when you say these members wrote for this. How bout this - I'll go through step by step what I need, and you give me the citation.

• The journal initially described itself as "A Socialist Journal Produced by Gay Men", which evolved into "A Gay Socialist Journal" by the magazine's end. That transition, in itself, spoke volumes for the vigorous debate that ran throughout Gay Left's life between the collective and lesbians who, though none ever joined the collective, frequently contributed articles.
• How many members there were
• How many stayed
• The entire table

... We'll start there and expand. and to answer the qetsion about lesbians - yes, in fact if you tell me who they were and what issues they did, I'll add them to the table.danielfolsom 18:38, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I might be running low on time, so the second you find a source for any of those, just give it to me and I'll put it in, don't worry about finding a source for all of them before you tell me.danielfolsom 18:40, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Wait, does that book have all the citations?danielfolsom 18:51, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

The lesbians were never members of the collective so they don't go in the table. The table is drawn from the contributor's panel on each issue and is therefore the source from which the statement that there were 15 members etc. Maybe if the table had a citation or someting saying it was a summary of the Collective members lists from issues one to ten would that do? It seems silly to summarise the table when it's there right after the comment.

On the lesbian contributors it seems wrong to pick them out for specific mention (there are probably 20-30 articles written by lesbians/women throughout the ten issues) when the male contributors who weren't members of the collective don't get mentioned explicitly.

Is there a time scale on getting this sorted? (It's 9.30pm here in the UK)? I'll do what I can tomorrow but I have work to do as well. Derek

BTW what citations are needed for book references? The book publisher still exists but the book is effectively out of print. Derek

BTW^2 I have added internal Wikipedia references to the collective members in the table who already have their own Wikipedia entries. Should I do it for all of them irrespective?

Ok first of all, instead of typing User:Derekcohen - just type four tildes (~~~~) - this also puts a timestamp on the comment. Secondly, we can add the women to the table, but denote that they weren't part of the entire thing, if you can get me the information I can do all the formating stuff. No no time scale, although we want to hurry, since we don't want it getting marked for deletion. And don't worry about the book reference, you just have to say where you got the information I listed in bullets above.danielfolsom 21:23, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, try to remember to comment on my talk page - that way I can instantly see if you replied.danielfolsom 21:26, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Gay left

Was the proper name of this publication Gay Left (caps on both words)? If so, it should be moved to Gay Left.--Isotope23 14:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

yes it was Gay Left (both capitalised) and I'd move it if I knew how. Be my guest if it's easy - thanks Derek 17:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey Derek, so I'm going to go ahead and move gay left, but I figure you should know how. At the top of the page, where it says "article, discussion, edit this page, +, history, move, and unwatch - you just click move, and it's self explanitory from there. Also, I think we should greatly reduce the length of the extra contributors - perhaps we should only note those who contributed twice or more, because that's a huge table.danielfolsom 01:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh and one more thing - I still need to know what your source is for who was in the collective (meaning how did you know what to put in the table?).danielfolsom 01:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The source for who was in the Collective is the credits printed in each issue. I have the ten issues here and also they're on the archive web site. Each issue listed who was in the Collective for that issue. That's the only valid source surely.

Thanks for the move Derek 05:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh absolutely, take a look at the template {{cite journal}} and see if you can fill most of that in - also, try to remember to reply on my talk page, or I won't know when you have replied.danielfolsom 05:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

By the way you won't be able/need to fill in all of the template - leave out the page numbers, the quotes etc.danielfolsom 05:36, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Work Needed

Hey Derek are you back yet? We still need to add your source for the article. I would do it as fast as possible because the article might be at risk to havea large part of it deleted. Again, just fill out as much as cite journal as you can and send it to me.--15:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh hey, so I just saw your comment now - just to let you know if your section is arhived you shouldn't continue the section in the archive - just start a new one in the talk page. I did a small thing with citing - I just decided to link to the first journal, since the links to the other journals are at the top. Just to let you know, --danielfolsom 02:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It'd be nice - and you should probably do it eventually - but for now you're fine. --15:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

IPs

Sadly, you can't. You just have to revert them when they do something - which is the same for almost all Wikipedia articles. If A LOT of attention comes to the page (like 3000 times more) than you can get a type of block, but for now just keep in on your watchlist.--danielfolsom 16:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Gay left issue 10 cover.jpg

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Nomination of Gay Left for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gay Left is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gay Left until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 19:58, 6 April 2017 (UTC)