Dannyhill

Welcome!

Hello, Dannyhill, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as InTopSens, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles. See the Article Wizard. Thank you.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Darkwind (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of InTopSens

A tag has been placed on InTopSens, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the guidelines on spam as well as Wikipedia:FAQ/Business for more information. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. --Darkwind (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

May 2010

Thank you for your recent contributions, such as InTopSens. Getting started creating new articles on Wikipedia can be tricky, and you might like to try creating a draft version first, which you can then ask for feedback on if necessary, without the risk of speedy deletion. Do make sure you also read help available to you, including Your First Article and the Tutorial. You might also like to try the Article Wizard, which has an option to create a draft version. Thank you. --Darkwind (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 11:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

InTopSens

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of InTopSens, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.ee.kth.se/intopsens. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.)

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 08:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. A page you recently created, InTopSens, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for new pages, so it will shortly be removed (if it hasn't been already). Please use the sandbox for any tests, and consider using the Article Wizard. For more information about creating articles, you may want to read Your first article. You may also want to read our introduction page to learn more about contributing. Thank you. UtherSRG (talk) 09:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

InTopSens

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of InTopSens, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.ee.kth.se/intopsens. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.)

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 11:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of InTopSens

A tag has been placed on InTopSens requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a clear copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Codf1977 (talk) 11:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Please don't recreate articles that have been deleted. This is considered vandalism. If you wish an article restored, you have two options:

1. Courteously contact one of the deleting admins to request the restoration. You will be asked to provide a reason for the restoring of the article, including a rationale that addresses the original concern of why the article was deleted.
2. List the article for deletion review.

Failing to do either and recreating the article on your own will be regarded as blatant vandalism and your account will be blocked. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

This is the final warning you will receive regarding your disruptive edits.
The next time you create an inappropriate page, such as InTopSens, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. You recreated the speedily-deleted page by copying and pasting the former content and removed the anti-copyright warnings; you have received ample recent warnings, and this will act as your final warning. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 11:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

---

Dear Giftiger wunsch,

I have been patiently trying to create an article on the InTopSens project without any success. Now I have received this very rude message:

"Stop hand nuvola.svg This is the final warning you will receive regarding your disruptive edits. The next time you create an inappropriate page, such as InTopSens, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. You recreated the speedily-deleted page by copying and pasting the former content and removed the anti-copyright warnings; you have received ample recent warnings, and this will act as your final warning. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 11:43, 26 May 2010 (UTC)"

I did not copy and paste. I copy, pasted and edited. As Wikipedia does not specifically say what are the copyright issues or any other issues for the article to not be created, after having read the guidance notes I have been re-editing the text and pasting each time hoping it is acceptable.

As an intelligent and IT literate person I have found the wikipedia editing experience so far to be a fairly solitary and bewildering experience. Cheers,

Daniel

I apologise if this is your experience. However, the copyright violation notice at the top of the page you created indicated that the article was substantially identical to a copyrighted document found by a bot, and the page was therefore speedily deleted both times. Given that you immediately recreated an almost identical page immediately after it was deleted by a sysop, and given the number of copyright warnings visible on your talk page, a final warning seemed appropriate.

If you would like to create this article, I would recommend drafting it in your userspace (for example, by creating User:Dannyhill/InTopSens, making sure it does not breach copyright violations (as copyrighted material may still be speedily deleted even from userspace), and establishing the notability of the subject by providing reliable sources. If you have any questions regarding wikipedia policy, you can ask me on my talk page or place {{helpme}} on your talk page, followed by a question. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 12:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

---

OK, I will fire away:

Q1 - Substantially identical? Well yes, because I wrote the original on the www.kth.se/intopsens webpage. How much more different do I have to make it so its acceptable but at the same time still portrays the information I require it to? Q2 - Copyright violation? As far as I know this information, in the public domain, is not copyrighted. But in any case I wrote it.

If you are the copyright holder, or you have written the information and released it to the public domain, edit the original document and include a statement to indicating that you release it into the public domain. If such a "copyleft" statement already exists, include it as a source in any future articles incorporating parts of this text. You can indicate on the talk page that it has been released to the public domain by noting it on the talk page. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 12:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I am not the copyright holder, I don't know who is. I wrote it whilst working for another employer who was managing the project, now my new employer runs it. Both these employers are just two partners within a consortium of 7 which particpates in the project InTopSens. Who owns it? The first employer? The second? The whole consortium? The European Commission who finance the project? Nobody? As such I do not know if I can copyleave it if it has not been done so already.

Unfortunately, if there isn't clear evidence that the information is in the public domain, it can't be used as part of the article. You'll have to re-word any information used. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 13:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Q3 - I did draft the article and got a non too useful message: "Sorry to report this, but I see no way to avoid this happening again. You have a conflict of Interest, which means you shouldn’t be creating or even editing such an article, although if someone else creates it, you can provide help at the article talk page. On occasion, we hear that people have been instructed to create a Wikipedia page about their project/company. In those case in may help to show the employer the COI guideline." So I am right is saying that if I post the article with my name on it it will get past the copyright issues as it contains information similar to page I wrote elsewhere but will fail because of conflict of interest, and vice versa if I dont put my name on it?

No, that is not the case. You are advised to avoid writing articles about topics you have a conflict of interest on as it makes it difficult to be neutral. However, providing you give a neutral, encyclopaedic coverage of the topic, this is not an issue. It is usually best to make it clear that you are associated with the topic, however, as attempting to hide that usually breeds mistrust. See WP:COI and WP:Neutrality GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 12:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Conflict of interest? Does mean that Tim Berners Lee cannot write an a wikiarticle on the world wide web becuase he invented it? I don't see how I can write a wikiarticle about anything if I am associated with its creation/development/implementation. I would say the article was fairly neutral even though it purports to go beyond the state of the art in various technologies. But then if it wasnt going to the EC would not have funded the project.....

As I stated, if you have a conflict of interest because you are associated with something you're writing about, the best advice is to let other people write about it, as you may find it very difficult to produce a neutral article about the subject. It is not forbidden to write about a subject with which you're involved, but it does mean that you need to be especially careful to ensure that you are meeting the neutrality guidelines and well-referencing the article with reliable secondary sources. The article you produced twice before was deleted because of the copyright violation and also because it read like an advertisement. This is precisely why the conflict of interest advice exists. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 13:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Q4 - If I place some scientific article references that cite the project that will help?

For details of what makes an article notable enough to be worth its own article, see WP:GNG, and WP:Notability (companies) in the case of companies. As long as you understand these criteria and meet the standards described, the article should not be deleted as being non-notable. However, please make sure you also fulful WP:Neutrality and avoiding casting either a positive or negative light on the topic. I would strongly advise against writing an article for a topic you are associated with because you have a conflict of interest, but as long as WP:Neutrality is met it's fine. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 12:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, but this is nothing to do with companies and products. There are 5 european rsearch centres and 2 european companies doing research together, we don't have any products. So the key to avoid COI is the neutrality of the text. Well, as someone who is not neutral to the text that is very difficult to judge!

A company or organisation need not have products; providing a neutral article is one of the five pillars of wikipedia. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 13:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, other EC projects have wikipedia pages and cite their homepages where there is similar text e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHOTONICS4LIFE

Thanks in advance,

Daniel

I hope that suitably answers all of your questions. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 12:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again in advance!

Daniel

By the way, please remember to sign future messages on talk pages with four tildes ~~~~, as this both signs your name and dates the message, as well as providing helpful links to your user and user talk pages. If you reply to an existing message, use a colon (:) to indent your reply below the existing comment, and use an additional : for each new "level" of replies. You can see how I've done so in this discussion if you're confused by what that means. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 13:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

How is this- Dannyhill (talk) 14:16, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll move this to an appropriate draft page in your userspace so that you have more room to work with. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Now located at User:Dannyhill/InTopSens. I'll take a look in a moment. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I've now made a number of minor changes to the article. Please look carefully at my edit summaries, and refer to the comments I've left in the source. I've also commented out a couple of small sections giving a single piece of information and suggested that the information be integrated into the text.

Most importantly, the draft lacks inline citations, and has a poorly-formatted list of references. Take a look at the {{cite}} template and related templates for how to better format your citations, and look at WP:Referencing for how to include them as inline citations. The basic principle is to include the reference in <ref> tags next to the comment which you're providing the citation for, and then include a references header containing the <references/> tag, which will automatically list all of the inline citations as footnotes, and provide numerical references to each one in the positions in the text. Have a look at virtually any article for an example, if that helps. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Giftiger wunsch, please take a look at my draft intopsens page. It seems ready for public viewing now. Cheers,

Daniel Dannyhill (talk) 10:52, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) As one of the editors who tagged the page for Speedy delete, your talk page is on my watch list and I have been following the words of advice from Giftiger wunsch. I do have an issue with the page, and it is not one you can easily fix, in that I do not think that at this time it meets the notability guidelines for having it's own article. I have tried to find coverage (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL) that is both independent (not press releases) and significant on the project and don't seem to find much - can you help out. Codf1977 (talk) 12:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What would you suggest? It seems that 'notability' is somewhat subjective. There are plenty of other EC funded projects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STReP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Project_%28EU%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_of_Excellence with wikiarticles written about them which obviously meet the 'notability' criteria. Curiously enough they are mostly all IT/artificial intelligence/internet/robotics. Are there is no notable research in other thematic areas?

Might I dare to suggest that our coverage is as independent and significant as that of Photonics4Life? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHOTONICS4LIFE

Dannyhill (talk) 14:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I see where you are coming from, and perhaps you may like to have a read of WP:OTHERSTUFF and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS - as for the PHOTONICS4LIFE artical that is tagged for notability. Do you have any examples of any independent (not press releases) and significant coverage of the project ? Codf1977 (talk) 15:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed most (or all) of the sources on the draft page are scientific journals, but I haven't looked at any of them because of lack of web links. Being scientific journals however, I'd imagine that any mention of InTopSens is likely to be relatively trivial, and thus fail WP:Notability. Unfortunately non-trivial, reliable secondary sources will be required to demonstrate notability, and in the absence of such sources the article may well quickly face Afd even if it survives speedy deletion and PROD this time. When I get chance I will try to find some appropriate secondary sources for the article, if any exist. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 20:44, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Sure, but at least the article for Photonics4life is still there and has been for months. It didn't get deleted within minutes of being created! For non-trivial reliable secondary sources, this is difficult as InTopSens is work in progress and most of it highly secret except for press releases, public disseimation via posters and talks, and of course academic papers on specific aspects of it, being a multidiscplinary research project. As you can imagine, being work in progress, and failry secretative, this generally excludes 'significant coverage of the project'.

What about: http://www.sflorg.com/comm_center/unv_science/p662_175.html http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=10434 https://www.grace-lrti.org/NR/rdonlyres/F6E9171F-9597-4449-9D85-1ED7AE79AA85/2217/GRACENewsJanuary2010LR.pdf https://www.mosar-sic.org/mosar/en-GB/Recommended+links/ http://www.vdivde-it.de/polynet/public/knowledge/newsletters/quadriga-newsletter-october-2009 http://www.vinnova.se/upload/remiss%20antibiotikaresistens.pdf Dannyhill (talk) 14:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, with the addition of those references I don't think there's any doubt that it meets WP:N. Have you added these to your draft page? I'll take another look over it in a little while as I haven't looked at it in a while, and suggest whether or not it is ready to be moved into mainspace. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I notice you haven't actually added these to the draft. Let me know once you've done so and you feel that it is ready for mainspace and I will give you some feedback and/or help you move it. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Good to go

Dannyhill (talk) 14:57, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it could still use a bit of a clean-up, but I've seen much worse articles survive in mainspace so I'll see if I can get this moved now, where contributions can more easily be made by others; I believe the page was protected from creation last time as it had been deleted multiple times, but if that is the case I'll contact the protecting sysop and ask it to be unprotected or the page to be moved. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 15:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

The article's references need to be tidied a bit before this page is moved into mainspace; while it now demonstrates notability, I suspect that there being several references used as one inline citation is erroneous, and these "references" are mainly primary research papers and should be removed or moved to external links. I would also suggest you have a look at the cite template and related templates such as cite web for how to neatly format these references. I will give you a hand formatting them shortly, but if you could try to tidy them up a bit as well, that would be helpful. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 13:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I've tidied the references now, but you might consider using some of these general references as inline citations. Also, take a look at the format I've used if you're interested in how to use the {{cite}} template. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Infobox

I have added an "infobox project" template to the article:

{{Userspace draft|source=ArticleWizard|date=May 2010}} {{infobox project |projectname=InTopSens |logo= |website=http://www.intopsens.eu |commericial=No |type=Research |location= |owner= |founderimage= |founder= |missionstatement= |date_of_establishment= |funding= }}

If you can fill out any more of the parameters, please do so. Owner, founder, mission statement, and funding probably shouldn't be too difficult. Note that to include a logo you need to upload one, and to upload one you need to have permission from the copyright holder to use it on wikipedia, at the very least. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I've updated the page, I have a logo image file, but where would I put it for it to be linked to?

Dannyhill (talk) 09:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

If you can show that permission has been given for the logo to be used on wikipedia, you may upload it with a suitable filename and then point the infobox template to the correct filename to include the logo. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:41, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

As you probably noticed, I just moved the article into mainspace. I noticed your edit where you tried to add a full url for the logo, but please be aware that you need to upload the image and provide the image's filename on wikipedia. You also need to make sure you can show that permission has been given for its use on wikipedia, otherwise the file may be removed as a breach of copyright.

If you want to test how to add the logo to the infobox properly, try using your userspace or the sandbox before introducing the edits into the article, which is now in the main article space. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 15:14, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Many thanks!

InTopSens v2

Hi

I know that you and Giftiger wunsch have put a lot of effort into getting this page back on. I don't know if you are aware, however Giftiger wunsch is no longer editing WP.

I have listed on the Talk page (see here) that I have some issues with the ref's used. I am minded to take the page to WP:AfD but would like to give you a chance to comment on them before I do.

Codf1977 (talk) 10:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of InTopSens

I have nominated InTopSens, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/InTopSens. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Codf1977 (talk) 11:35, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Feedback reorganization

Hello! You recently posted a Request for Feedback here. We are currently "remodeling" the Requests for Feedback system and all entries have been archived. They can be found here. Any responses or posts there, however will not be seen. If you need additional feedback or have any questions, feel free to post at my talk page, or, when it is done, the new Feedback page. Also, we encourage you to help provide feedback! - No matter how new you may be, anyone can read an article and provide constructive comments!

If you have any questions or need help, feel free to leave me a message at my talk page. You can also talk to us live, with this or this. Happy editing! Chzz  ►  07:26, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Moved from Talk:InTopSens

Hi,

I never received any of these previous comments before InTopSens was deleted. Is there anyway that I can be alerted by email to new comments?~Incidentally, I don't understand the frantic movement. What if people are sick or busy or on holiday. How can you nominate one day and delete the next? Cheers,

Dannyhill (talk) 13:46, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately given your involvement in the article and the unanimous consensus I see on the AfD page, it is unlikely that it would have made a difference if you'd been able to contribute to the AfD. I'm not sure if you can be alerted by e-mail to new comments, but you can get an RSS feed for your watchlist by entering a random unique code in your preferences and retrieving the RSS feed. As you can see by looking at the AfD page, the process lasted seven days, as all AfDs do unless the result is speedy keep or speedy delete. GiftigerWunsch [TALK] 14:03, 23 June 2010 (UTC)