User talk:Cromag/Archive 1

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D12

I have recently made efforts to improve articles for my favorite rap group, D-12, and noticed that you have made edits on many of them. I also noticed that there was no article for late member Bugz. There was one back in the days, but it was crappy and got deleted. So, I recreated it using as much information as possible. If you know any other information about Bugz, can you edit and improve that page, so it doesn't get deleted like the proceeding articles created by others? I'm also going to go through and create some articles for the past members of the group and expand on a few of their stub-articles. Any help you want to offer would be great. (Notorious4life 02:41, 25 November 2005 (UTC))

From Sea to Shining Sea

I've removed the tag, as that helps a lot. It doesn't look like all of the tidbits in the infobox (e.g. record producer) are covered by that reference, but I may be wrong. In any case, that helps a lot. Tuf-Kat 00:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Johnny Cash albums

I noticed you wrote/cleaned up a bunch of Johnny Cash albums. Good work! I've been trying to cleanup and wikify Johnny Cash discography, so if you wanna give me a hand determining which albums listed deserve a page and splitting the page into sections that'd be great. Unfortunately, Cash's catalog is a mess as there's so many crap and compilation albums. Alcuin 02:07, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Your judgement seems great so far on which albums are noteworthy and which ones aren't. I'm just very impressed at the sheer volume and the quality of the pages you wrote is such a short amount of time. I was using allmusic as my primary resource, but for an artist like Cash, it seems the info there is too comprehensive, and you have to use some deductive powers to determine which albums belong where. I do plan on helping with the album pages too, though it may be a few days before I get the chance. Anyway, kudos on a great job so far. Alcuin 12:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Btw, your English is excellent, I would not have guessed that it's your second language. Alcuin 12:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

You may have noticed I decided to move backwards chronologically, I think we'll be finish soon. Once we are done I suggest we write articles for a few of the more notable compilations or box sets, and then review and expand each other's articles. For example, I couldn't find track times for a couple of his 70s albums, and Look at Them Beans has personnel and charting sections that we should look into incorporating into his other albums. Finally, I think we should make an effort towards writing as much prose as we can into the introduction sections, something I'm sure you noticed that I'm not too good at. Together, I think we can make Cash's discography and album pages one of the best on wikipedia. Cheers, Alcuin 23:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Believe in Him was mentioned in that Rolling Stone page that I linked from Johnny Cash discography as well as a couple other places on the internet. It doesn't seem like all that important an album, and it still hasn't been released on CD, but I wrote a page anyway. I'm not sure where to add it to the discography page, though, because it doesn't fit neatly into my Columbia or Mercury sections. Yes, there should be a Classic Cash page, as well as Strawberry Cake and Mean as Hell or any others we skipped, even though none of these are true albums of original material (at least in the way I think of them). Anyway, keep up the great work and thanks for the feedback. Alcuin 14:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, since Mean as Hell does in fact consist only of material from Sings the Ballads of the True West (I verified this from my own music collection), I'm just gonna add a section to the 'True West' page. Yeah, StarPulse looks like it sucks, but fortunately it looks like all its info comes from allmusic, so hopefully we wont have to go there. That's what's nice about wikipedia is that you can get album info without the spyware, someone just has to write it first. :) Another source I'll try for tracktimes is eBay, sometimes you can glean info from pictures of old records for sale there. Anyway, work on the stuff that you want to work on, don't worry about my suggestions unless you want to. We've got lots we can do, and it should feel like fun, not work. Alcuin 21:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, looks like we did it! There's only 4 redlinks left on the page, and perhaps the only other things left deserving articles are those Bear Family boxes or other compilations. Some of the pages need some cleanup (some are lacking allmusic star graphics), but overall I'm happy with the results. To answer your question, no, I haven't listened to the Highwaymen albums, I'm sure I'll get around to them someday. If you get a chance, check out Love, God and Murder and give me some advise on making the infoboxes and tracklists line up (short of expanding each section). Later, Alcuin 19:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was trying to hit that gray area between POV and NPOV on that one. It's hard to be objective when writing a page for an album that's utter crap. I wonder how many poor suckers wasted their hard earned money on that disc when they really wanted the original recordings. Alcuin 20:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Go for it in regards to Greatest Hits 3. I'm glad you said that about the extra chronology on the American Series. I went ahead and removed it. Also, I added content to American Recordings and Unchained, (and will soon do the others) but I'm not sure what the best format is for what I did. The small font seems best, but I'm uncomfortable with it. Any ideas? Alcuin 04:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Good job on all the stuff you've done. The pages are much more consistently written now. I'm impressed you found so many track lengths. I had given up on finding any more. Yeah, you probably noticed that I've been focusing more on the recent releases lately. After Cash, I'm not sure which artists I'll turn towards. I'm not much of a country fan, actually. I prefer 60s and 70s rock and blues rock, but those notable artists need much less attention than the artists you mentioned, though. I just might work on Kristofferson, for example (and get into his music in the process). It seems like you don't really have to know all that much about the music to contribute, just know what sources to use. If there is one thing missing from the Cash articles, it would be a page chronicallying what songs he recorded for Sun. Most of his stuff then was released as singles, not albums, so it might be nice to have a page listing and discussing the sessions there as a whole. Anyway, good work so far. I feel like you've done the bulk of the tedious type work, smoothing the rough edges and fixing my errors, in addition to writing so many pages on your own. Good job! Alcuin 01:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, awesome job dude. Alcuin 04:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Cromag, the tireless editor! Hey, I changed the personnel to Personal File, what I imported is from AMG. What you put had Rubin listed as one of the producers, which I don't think is right. Also, I'm thinking we should re-add the 'Extra Chronology' to the American albums, especially if we're going to include compilations in the main chronology. Also, maybe we should write a template (a la Template:Pink Floyd) to put at the bottom of each page. BTW, do you think My Mother's Hymn Book and Life should get their own pages, or stay where they are at Unearthed and Love, God and Murder? Alcuin 17:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I think what I and others really want is a way to quickly click to related albums. Extra chronology or a template would solve this, or a sentence in the introduction saying that album x is the xth in the American series that also contains title1, title2 and title3. Alcuin 18:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey I found a very useful site with recording dates for each song on each Johnny Cash album, you should check it out. It's in 2 parts, I added links to the discography page. Alcuin 23:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Somehow I managed to miss many of your comments from the past couple days. Yes, I think the tribute albums should be added to the discography page. I have no problem with addition Sun album pages. The ones I redlinked way back when were just the albums I thought should have a page first. I did notice when I did the Sun Discography that he did record songs there that did not appear on the albums we have pages for already. You may have noticed that I added links to 2 more albums, Tall Man (album), a bear family compilation of 60s era Columbia material and A Believer Sings the Truth, a gospel album that Cash initially released on his own because CBS wouldn't support it. I think both are worth of a page, and I'll eventually write them. I also plan on gleaning new information from that new resource I added to the Johnny Cash discography page for information like recording dates or other info we might have missed for the existing albums. Yeah, I agree, the discography page is now confusing and jumbled. I think the Eric Clapton discography was my initial inspiration for the format, but the style doesn't work as well here as it does there. Feel free to zap the images, rearrange the sections or anything else you think will make it better. Alcuin 23:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and added those 2 tribute albums to the discography. There are countless other tribute albums and concerts to Cash out there, as well as songs written about him and covers. This section could potentially be much larger. Alcuin 14:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

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Kris Kristofferson albums

Sure, lets do it. Unfortunately, I'm far less familiar with his work than Cash's, but perhaps it's time for me to get into his albums anyway. I'll always be glad to collaborate with you. Alcuin 01:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I reorganized the Kris Kristofferson discography and added a couple album articles. I'm guessing we should include his duet albums with Rita Coolidge in the album chronology, since they did contain new songs written by him. I'll leave those albums to the end, though. Alcuin 00:07, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if it's more correct with or without the quotes. Personally, I think you should title it without quotes. Only AMG seems to use quotes in the title, and there's no quotes on the album cover. Alcuin 12:14, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

American V

Hey, I've been doing some investigating on AMG; I was searching for the first performances of the songs on American V. Here's what I came up with...note that in some cases, I'm uncertain as to what information should actually be used in the article. Here goes:

1. Help Me - first recorded by Kris Kristofferson for Jesus Was a Capricorn in 1972; recorded by Gatlin for Night Time Magic in 1978
2. God's Gonna Cut You Down - although a traditional tune, it was apparently only recorded by Odetta for Sings Ballads and Blues in 1956
3. If You Could Read My Mind - originally recorded by Lightfoot for Sit Down Young Stranger in 1970 (I think the song itself should be de-linked)
4. The Evening Train (AMG found results for "On the Evening Train" and "Evening Train" - Williams never recorded it; recorded by Molly O'Day, Bob Paisley and Crooked Jades, but can be found primarily on compilations, so it's hard to tell when the song was actually recorded by the artists
5. Love's Been Good to Me - recorded by Frank Sinatra for Sinatra! in 1953 (unsure of this). Recorded by Glenn Yarbrough for One More Round in 1964
6. A Legend in My Time - recorded by Roy Orbison for Sings Lonely and Blue in 1960; recorded by Gibson for Sweet Dreams that same year (perhaps earlier in the year)
7. Rose of My Heart - originally recorded by The Whitstein Brothers for Rose of My Heart in 1984. Recorded by Moffatt for Troubadour in 1989
8. Four Strong Winds - recorded by Journeymen for New Directions in Folk Music in 1963
9. I'm Free from the Chain Gang Now - originally recorded by Ernest Tubb for Jimmie Rodgers Songs in 1951. Recorded by Cash for The Sound of Johnny Cash in 1962

What do you think of these? Which should be incorporated into the article? Cromag 21:02, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I found that when I did the others, there was no clear cut standard for consistency. Sometimes I included the author's first recording, the most famous recording, or the one I thought most likely to have influenced Cash. Also, there's no reason not to include mention of multiple recordings per song. So, I would say that it's up to you. One other tool I found helpful in addition to amg was googling the song within wikipedia, like this, which often gave me a sense of which recordings were most notable. Hope that helps.

Oh, btw, I think I'll be hitting Waylon Jennings' albums soon, and I haven't given up on Kris Kristofferson, though I seem to have postponed further work. Alcuin 21:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and did the songs I was comfortable doing. The Hank Williams song was apparently never recorded by him, and I couldn't find any info on the song's history online. Feel free to improve/correct what I've done as appropriate. Alcuin 01:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Waylon Jennings

Yeah, Waylon Jennings is gonna be a bit tougher than Cash or Kristofferson. I haven't heard most of these albums, and some are haven't been released on CD. But the discography on his official site is quite useful, as are luma and amg. Also, the album chronology varies between each of these sites, so we'll have to double check as we go. I'm glad to hear you're up for more album torture, this one's gonna take some work.

Yeah, I'm aware that using the slashes instead of commas isn't the preferred format, but I personally like it that way. Some sources will list songwriters last name first (Lennon, John) which could cause confusion when building a page. That, and I just like the way it looks. It seems that article editors almost never follow the WP:ALBUM conventions completely, so I've decided that it's not too bad to do it that way. Alcuin 00:41, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not I use them, it's still the preferred way of doing it, so there's no reason why you shouldn't use commas (unless you also didn't like them). Alcuin 19:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Nice work, I think you split them correctly. Alcuin 14:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I had read somewhere that the sessions for the album were between June Carter Cash's death and his own, hence the May-September dates. Whether all the songs on the album came from those sessions, I don't know. --Alcuin 15:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, he was obviously well intentioned, but the edit kind of made a mess of things, so I reverted it. He looks like a newbie, he's making the kind of mistakes I once did. I hope I don't hurt his feelings by undoing his work. Yeah, I've noticed that you've done much work on Waylon lately. Sorry I haven't helped out much lately. I did notice those userboxes, those look great and will make it easy to start new pages. Nice work. --Alcuin 20:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I've been hitting the Waylon Jennings albums again. I did them quick 'n' dirty, so you might wanna check them for errors (pay especial attention to the chronology on those albums where I didn't use one of your infoboxes). Thanks for those infoboxes, they really made it easy. Thanks for the revert on the Johnny Cash template. That's getting annoying, partly cause his version is so ugly and partly cause he won't collaborate. Oh well. That's wikipedia. Later, Alcuin 18:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, sorry I haven't responded sooner. On American V, it could be that the recording from 2000 is not the one that appears on the final album. He may have recorded it twice, once in 2000 and again in 2003. Though I have no way of knowing either way, unless the CD booklet (which I don't have) shows the dates. On Waylon's album pages, I'm not too sure if I'll do too much more soon. I think we've covered the most important albums, though it would be nice to be complete like we are with Cash. About Cash, it seems like we continually find new albums that he recorded. A new page sounds fine with me. Cheers, Alcuin 16:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Johnny Cash template

By the way, I like that template you're working on. I wanted to do the same (see here), but was concerned that it would be too big, or at least I was too lazy to import all those albums. If you're planning on incorporating it into articles, I can go ahead and start adding it to the bottom of pages, if you want. Alcuin 18:25, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it looks good as it is. I would add a link to Carter Family, but not necessarily Maybelle, etc. See if you can add a 'this box: view, edit, talk' line, like this one does. I'm not sure how to do that, but I think it's a nice feature. Alcuin 19:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, btw, The Gospel Road was a soundtrack, too Alcuin 19:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it looks good the way it is. People will make changes over time anyway (read: screw it up), so don't sweat too much about who belongs and who doesn't in the related section. Oh, i've started adding the template to the album pages, but i'm only up to Heart of Cash. Alcuin 19:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I was expecting you to do that. Alcuin 19:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I should do Tall Man. It was an album by Bear Family of Columbia era outtakes. It's mentioned on a link that i previously added and then removed from the Cash page. I think they released a couple other similar albums, Bear Family probably deserves their own section in the discography. Red links really bug you, don't they?  :) Alcuin 21:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the template, it looks great. It's big, but I like it that way. It reminds readers of Cash's massive output over the years, and the dedication his fans have to write so many articles. Good job. Alcuin 22:07, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that family template screws with the formatting of the page. I switched template order, which may not be ideal, but it fixed the obvious problem. Alcuin 22:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright, i created four more Cash album pages, 3 Bear Family albums (The Unissued Johnny Cash, Johnny & June, Tall Man (album)), and one gospel soundtrack (Return to the Promised Land). I'm letting you know, cause album pages always end up better after you review them. I also reorganized the discography page to accomodate these new albums. And we thought we were done with Cash. Ha ha ha. ...Speaking of that, I found some more guest appearances for you here. (That's the same source I used for these 4 new albums.) Alcuin 04:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Your recent edit to Quest for Glory I: So You Want to Be a Hero (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // MartinBot 20:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Quest for Glory I: So You Want To Be A Hero

Please do not copy article contents by hand. Please note that for proper GFDL compliance, edit histories must be moved as well. (See WP:GFDL). If you are unable to complete a request yourself, please ask an administrator to assist you at Wikipedia:Requested_moves. Thank you. Nardman1 20:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• (replying to your comment on my talk page). Unfortunately I can't fix it myself either. I marked the other page for speedy deletion (for housekeeping tasks), which is another way to deal with it (and a little more quickly than requested moves). Once the page is deleted I'll move it to the right title. Nardman1 23:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)