CelloCello1

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Hello, CelloCello1, and welcome to Wikipedia! My name is Shalor and I work with the Wiki Education Foundation; I help support students who are editing as part of a class assignment.

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:40, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Response

Hi! The best way to go about this would be to work in your sandbox. Then when you're ready, you can contact me to review your work and then after that, move it live in small edits. (IE, going section by section or paragraph by paragraph). Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:39, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

• This looks great! Do you want me to help you move this live? Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Shalor (Wiki Ed), that would be great! Should I start moving it sentence at a time, or section at a time? CelloCello1 (talk) 02:08, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

• I can actually move it for you, if you like. Since you revamped the entire page, I can actually use my main account to merge the page histories together. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:05, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thanks Shalor (Wiki Ed). I didn't include the 'External Links' section in my sandbox since I wasn't updating it, but I'd like it to stay in the final article. Thanks for your help! CelloCello1 (talk) 04:37, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Re. "The best way to go about this would be to work in your sandbox" – definitely not: what were you thinking?

Re. "I can actually use my main account to merge the page histories together" – again: what were you thinking? this is really not the way to go about this. --Francis Schonken (talk) 21:54, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi Francis Schonken, I noticed you reverted all my changes to Wiegenlied (Brahms). Could you please let me know what you think I could improve on? It was listed on the Classical Music Wiki Project as needing expansion/revision. There is also a statement in the 'Arrangements' section that is a direct quote from the source (plagiarism). Thanks! CelloCello1 (talk) 04:46, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Wiegenlied (Brahms) would be the place where to discuss this – not an individual editor's talk page like this one.

Re. "direct quote": rather seems close paraphrasing of material found at https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA67279 – tagged according to guidance at Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing#Addressing, and corresponding section started at the article's talk page (Talk:Wiegenlied (Brahms)#Close paraphrasing in arrangements section). --Francis Schonken (talk) 05:41, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

• With the edits, I thought it best to have them work on a draft in their userspace, as that could work as a scratchpad rather than the student doing all of their work live. With the merge, I thought that the student's draft looked good - the lead summarized content that was covered in the article and the sourcing looked good from what I could see - admittedly I was not able to access all of the sourcing because it's offline. As such I decided to WP:BEBOLD and merge the two together. The student could have moved the content over section by section, but I wanted to add the editing history from their sandbox. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:07, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
  • For the student it is better that they would work piecemeal in mainspace, so they get feedback for their work rather than jump mainspace with a completely rewritten article, which would routinely be reverted, and is thus more frustrating for the student. I'd like the Wiki Ed volunteers to give better advice to students, that is, leading less easily to frustration.
  • If they want to work in draft space, it is better that the student copy-pastes material to mainspace themselves, than that someone else does it for them (if the page is protected or semi-protected, which is not the case for the page CelloCello1 is working on, they should use the "editrequest" system via the talk page). Here is such a successful mainspace edit by a Wiki Ed student.
  • Please remember that you used admin privileges (history merge) in a WP:INVOLVED way: "Shalor (Wiki Ed)" is your account for all Wiki Ed-related edits: if that account has no admin privileges, there's probably a reason for that. Then switching to your "admin" account to do Wiki Ed-related work (which you can't do with the account assigned to that work), as you explained above, is an incorrect way of using two accounts, and WP:INVOLVED work for the admin account. I don't want to see that happening again.
  • There was no reason for a history merge in this case. CelloCello1 started his draft with this edit: when seen in the merged history of the current page that is this edit – as if they emptied the page, which would have been vandalism (which it was not, but now looks like it because of the history merge). The situation would have been different if they had started with a copy-paste of the existing page, but they didn't, and in this case there was no reason whatsoever to merge histories. It would have been much better that CelloCello1 would have copy-pasted their own draft preparations from user draft to mainspace (even if a piecemeal introduction in mainspace by the student would be preferable). --Francis Schonken (talk) 18:10, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Further, what you apparently didn't check before proceeding with the merge is whether the merge would remove part of the content of the page: that's why I reverted: whatever additions resulted from CelloCello1's draft: it removed content contributed to the page by others: I had no time to check whether these removals were justified (they weren't, I checked today) so I just reverted at the time – a new editor's contributions are not by definition more valuable than those left there by previous editors.
  • Further, I'd encourage Wiki Ed students and volunteers to make better use of the article's talk page: why didn't you propose the history merge on the article's talk page (with a link to the draft)? That was the place to discuss that (not this user talk page). --Francis Schonken (talk) 19:13, 20 February 2020 (UTC)