User talk:Ccson/Oct2006-Dec2006

Plagirism at Vestal Virgins

As far as I can tell it was you who added the rather blatantly plagirised stuff under "privileges"; I'm about to remove the copied parts, but I thought I'd give you a chance to re-write it or something.

Plagirism is a *very* serious thing, especially with such a large project as wikipedia. As in this case, old plagirism can go undetected for a very long time and potentially cause great problems down the line. I'd be very grateful if you'd think back to other contributions you've made and make sure they're free of this type of problem.

Cheers,

Jim whitson 09:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Henry A. Callis

Hi,

I was chasing some vandals that kept adding gibberish to templates/articles and must have mistaken your edit as one of these. I see you've already corrected the reversion, so please accept my apologies. Rtcpenguin 17:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Mykungfu Sockpuppets Page

Bearly541 06:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

blocked me?

I received a message that you blocked me for vandalizing the page "Alpha Phi Alpha." I never touched that page! I don't even know what Alphi Phi Alpha is.

Not True!, it wasn't me. I'm not a wikipedia admin and therefore unable to block anyone. It appears you're editing without creating a user id and therefore you are sharing an AOL IP address with a user who is vandalizing wikipedia pages. I review the talk page for the IP address that created the above msg, but I was unable to find a message from myself. Perphas you want to create a user id. Good Luck. Ccson 03:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

CCson, that was Mykungfu, by the way. Bearly541 03:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I know the IP address is one attributed to him, but acting on good faith, I thought perhaps another user also using the IP address was upset about being blocked, but still it wouldn't have said I blocked. I guess since he get vandalize semi-protected or protected pages, he has to find something to do. Thanks again for the clarification. Ccson 03:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Like vandalizing my talk page. [1] Bearly541. 04:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Image:Boariumlauvernier.jpg

Hi Ccson, I have a question about this picture that you uploaded last year. You state that the photo's of Mr Lauvernier can be used with a GNU Free documentation license. I checked the site but I can't find that statement anywhere. I only see a copyright for the full site. Can you show me where the license is on the website? I am very eager to use a few of those photo's on my Dutch wiki articles, and would also like to add them to Commons.
Thanks, Joris1919 22:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

AKA Colors

Thanks for updating my page, Frat. Bearly541 01:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

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Offer

Whatever I can do to help on the article, let me know.-Robotam 19:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm looking for information regarding the Centennial Convention held in July 2006. I want the number of attendees, official activities any major annoucement. The info was in an August JET magazine, but I no longer have access to the magazine. Any help will be appreciated. Ccson 20:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I located the JET magazine at my local library. I have updated the Centennial celebration section with this info. Please proof read and provide any suggesions. thanks Ccson 17:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

got it. i will try to contact herman mason as well, for feedback if you think that is appropriate.-Robotam 14:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

sure, I know skip. Ccson 14:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

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Ralph Bunche

Hello Ccson,

I received your message and I will restore it.

...but you have to admit that the 2 out of the 3 sources are unofficial.

This source http://www.living-library.com/FreedomTour/AlphaPhiAlpha.html was written by a high school student.

I have been seeing that postcard on ebay for years. Was the postcard made by an Alpha?

I will restore his name, but the fact that it was mentioned in none of the editions of the Alpha history book, on no chapter websites, and on not one district website is a bit strange for such a high profile Nobel Prize winner.

You have to admit that my friend!

The history book was copyrighted in 1981 and it refers to him as a non-member. I do not have a copy of the Alpha history book in front of me, but I recall it stating, "Ralph Bunche was the first non-member to receive such and such an award." Are you familiar with the passage in the book?

If he died in 1971, why would Charles Wesley refer to him as a non-member in 1981? Even if that sentence was referring to an event that occurred before he became an Alpha, it still would be strange for the author to refer to him as a non-member if he eventually became a member.

So basically it is Charles Wesley vs. Congressman Davis.

But, I will replace his name for wikipedia etiquette.

Jsmith212 01:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)So we will see...

Hi Ccson, I am not an Alpha, but the book did pass through my hands a couple of times. Your argument is logical and so is mine. In the mean time, I will replace his name. Jsmith212 03:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Ralph Bunche Finalized

Hi Ccson,

I e-mailed an author of numerous Alpha historical books and he told me that Ralph Bunche was not an Alpha. I contacted him at www.skipmason.com Jsmith212 13:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Is this an anonymous author or is Skip Mason the author? Can you post the contents of the emails here? thanks Ccson 16:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ccson, here is the actual copy/paste e-mails between me and Skip Mason:

My original message to Skip Mason was:

Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:16:05 -0700 (PDT) From: " " < @yahoo.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Subject: Nobel Prize Winner-Ralph Bunche-Wikipedia To: skipmason1906@aol.com

   Hello Skip Mason, 

I am not a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, but I am a frequent contributor to numerous Black Greek letter organization articles on www.wikipedia.org

On wikipedia.org we are having an ongoing discussion about whether Ralph Bunche was an Alpha or not. The link below represents part of this discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alpha_Phi_Alpha

So I would like to know if you know anything about whether he is a member or not.

thank you,

From: Skipmason1906@aol.com Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 23:26:39 EST Subject: Re: Nobel Prize Winner-Ralph Bunche-Wikipedia To: @yahoo.com

   Hi Jason, 

Sorry for the delay. No Ralph Bunche was not an Alpha. I have always known him to be affiliated with Omega Psi Phi.

Skip Mason

These are actual copies of the e-mails, I only deleted my last name and e-mail address from these messages.

The authenticity of these e-mails can be verified by contacting him at (skipmason1906@aol.com).

Although Skip Mason said that Ralph Bunche was affiliated with Omega Psi Phi in the e-mail, Dr. Bunche was not affiliated with Omega Psi Phi either. Many believe he was an Omega because he won the Omega Citizen of the Year Award in 1948. But he was not in any college fraternity.

Jsmith212 19:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't doubt the authenticity of the email, but judging from his incorrect statements that you object to, do you really think Mason should be the final arbiter on the biography of Bunche to disprove 3 sourced statements? Ccson 04:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I understand that Skip Mason is not the current official historian of Alpha Phi Alpha, but from looking at his website and his books, he looks like a credible Alpha researcher. I doubt that if a high profile Nobel Prize winner was in his fraternity that he would not know about it. Skip Mason incorrectly saying that Dr. Bunche was in Omega Psi Phi does not discredit his Alpha credibility because he is not an Omega researcher, he is an Alpha researcher. I am sure that Skip Mason has access to the Alpha membership database, but he does not have access to the Omega membership database. Therefore, Mr. Mason making a mistake about Dr. Bunche being an Omega does not discredit his Alpha historical knowledge.

I believe 2 out of 3 of your sources are weak. 1. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrph1234QQhtZ-1 I have been seeing these postcards on ebay for years. The seller of these cards is not an Alpha.(I am not an Alpha either, but I am sourcing Alpha's).

2. Where did that high school student get her information from? She didn't get it from Danny Davis's statement on the Alpha documentary because the website was made in 2001, the documentary aired in 2006. http://www.living-library.com/FreedomTour/AlphaPhiAlpha.html So where did that high school student get her information from?

3. The last source is Danny Davis on the Alpha documentary which I watched. Between Skip Mason/Charles Wesley and Danny Davis, I think I would go with Mason and Wesley.

If Bunche was an Alpha he would have been mentioned as an Alpha in Charles Wesley's history book. His name would have appeared on the national website, on 200 Alpha websites, and he would have appeared on the front cover of the Sphinx at least 3 times.

I am not going to put anymore time into this. But if you think he was an Alpha, then you can replace his name on the article. Jsmith212 14:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm surprised you've put as much time into this as you have, but your efforts would have been better served trying to discredit at least one of the 3 sources, asking them the 3 enumerated statements above about why you think they are weak. I will address number 2 about the high school girl. She mentions Bunche was a local member of the Alpha fraternity in Detroit. I would think she interviewed that graduate chapter or one of its members for the info, so anyone doubting the info should contact that chapter to see if Bunche was ever on their membership roster. The producers of the video or the national office or Davis can be contacted regarding his statement.

Some Alpha websites mention Jackie Robinson was an Alpha, but I have personally spoken to Skip and he says Robinson is not an Alpha. Like Bunche, Robsinson's name is mentioned in the history book, but not as a member. I have not added Robinson because no neutral site has confirmed his membership, and their is no reason to believe the student or producers of the postcard would go thru the effort to distort information. I'm sure Alpha's have seen the postcard, yet there is no disclaimer available from the office that says the postcard is untrue or anything from the King family which attacks the postcard.

I wasn't questionings Mason's knowledge on Alpha, but it seems like he hasn't actually reserached Bunche, or he would have known he wasn't an Omega. His statement was heresay and we need an definitive answer from someone who would know.

Personally, I am still researching this because I do want the article to be accurate. I'm going to look for a biography or autobiography of Bunche to see what they say about his memberships. I will post my final findings here, but it won't be my gut feeling or personal opinion. Ccson 16:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You shouldn't be surprised at how much time I put into this. I didn't put that much time into this other than contacting Mr. Mason, opening the history book, and doing a few google searches. And you put more time (than me)into other fraternity articles which in the end turned out to be helpful! One last note...several years ago(1990's) when I was hearing rumors about Bunche being an Omega, I looked through all his biographies and saw no mention about him being in any college fraternity.

Jsmith212 17:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

So for at least a decade you've been consumed by this. Ccson 15:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I am in an organization and I like to study its history. Just as I have looked through Jesse Jackson's biography, Roy Wilkins, Vernon Jordan, Charles Drew, etc. I don't understand your point. Jsmith212 15:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand how Ralph Bunche fits in with you, the names above and Omega Psi Phi; for example, Jackson is an Omega, Wilkins is an Omega, Jsmith212 is an omega, etc. Can you complete this list and include Bunche's name so I can see why you read his bio as well as the others.? Ccson 16:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

You didn't understand my sentence? I said several years ago(1990's) when I was hearing rumors about Bunche being an Omega, I looked through all his biographies and saw no mention about him being in any college fraternity. I am saying that I am in Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc., therefore I study its history. Then I went on to say, "I read several biographies of Omega's such as Jesse Jackson, etc. "

My point was that I heard rumors in the 1990's of Ralph Bunche and Jackie Robinson being Omegas. As a result, I searched through their biographies to research their membership. What is it about my statements that you don't understand?

Jsmith212 16:16, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

My bad, since we were talking our Bunche being al Alpha, I missed the word "Omega" and just assumed we were still talking about Alpha since you also said you saw the postcard. I apologize. I do have some good news. I contacted the national office and they confirmed that Bunche is not a member of Alpha Phi Alpha. I will update the Alpha article accordingly. Thanks for you efforts to ensure the accuracy of the article. I'm open to copyedit the Omega article. I don't know you history, so its difficult for me to add new content, but I can copyedit. thanks again. Ccson 03:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep, we can help each other...I have a question, you know the box that appears on the Alpha page that lists "First African Americans". I was thinking of making one for Omega, but I don't know how to place that type of box on the page. Can you tell me how that is done?

Jsmith212 04:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

MyKungfu and Alpha Kappa Alpha

Has came back to edit the article page without warrant soon after protection was taken off. Where is the shield? And, where is the Alpha Phi Alpha pin?---- Bearly541 talk 07:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, gotcha. I have some shields on memorabilia that I can upload (probably around December). ---- Bearly541 talk 08:02, Saturday November 4, 2006 (UTC)

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Wikibreak

Ccson, I am going to take a break, and be back on next month. I have asked Dalbury (admin) to watch the page closely. (Note: There have been some recent deletes/modifications by IP vandals (MyKungfu?)). When I come back, I will add information (more) to the page. If you know any sorors (which I am definately sure that you do) ask them if they have any historic pics/flyers with the emblem/information/programs about the sorority to add to the page. When I come back, I will update Alpha Kappa Alpha and Links, Incorporated. Right now is just a busy time for me. Thanks for all of your help. Bearly541 04:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

P.S., where's that fraternity pin pic? Bearly541 04:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Enjoy your break. The pin is so tiny and my camera can't get a good close=up. I am still working on it. thanks. Ccson 05:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

This is the person that changed the Alpha Phi Alpha information about the number of chapters. The reason I changed the number from 700 to 900 is because I am a member of the 900 house Tau Epsilon, And I know others that came after my chapter such as Tau Zeta (901), therefore I changed the number from 700+ to 900+.

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Citing sources

I'm a huge fan of your work, and taken guidance from it in my own entries. Since I am new to wikipedia I'm hoping I can follow your example to solve another issue. In the Fraternities and sororities entry users are asking for a citation for the term : "Alpha Phi Alpha is generally recognized," and "Phi Iota Alpha is generally recognized." I have the citation for Phi Iota Alpha but I'm not sure how to cite it in the article. I wonder if you could enter the citation for Alpha Phi Alpha, and after seeing how you do it I can do my own. Thanks. 2much 18:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikilink tip

Thank you so much for your help. Your guidance was really helpful. Please feel free to point out any other aspect that I can improve upon.2much 05:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Reference

Thanks for your help in improving the articles I'm working on. I never had a reference for Alpha Phi Alpha being the 1st african american fraternity. But since they were asking for a citation for both groups, I figured you would have and I could learn from your example. 2much 22:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Fraternities/Sororities

Regarding this issue, it is different for each 9 BGLO. An informational is held first where dues and dates of "events" are set up. That's all I can say about this issue. Bearly541 15:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see the pin. Sorry. And, I am thinking about doing a Delta Sigma Theta template. Bearly541 03:37, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Still, don't see the pin. But, the template consists of a badge that members of sororities and fraternities can use to put on the user page. (located here). Bearly541 02:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

okay, like the one I created for AKA, Kappas and the Iotas. looks great.--Ccson 08:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I like the pin. Why don't you put it on your userpage? Bearly541 03:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Art Shell

when you have time, can you please check up on the article you created titled Art Shell - it's getting out of control with the vandalism and racism - so much that locking it for a time might be useful - thanks Ukt-zero 19:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Phi Iota Alpha

Thanks for the reorg. Article flows better now. 2much 22:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment. That means a lot coming from you. I noticed the code reading the Michigan State University featued article, and figured it would solve my white square issue. 2much 22:57, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Delta Sigma Theta and Alpha Kappa Alpha

I read in In Search For Sisterhood recently that Soror Quander gave the Deltas a deadline to "table their approval of the changes, then gave them a deadline to drop 'Delta Sigma Theta' and return to the fold," on page 51. Bearly541 03:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, but if they had already started DST, this would indicate they left on their own will. They weren't forced to leave, and then decided, hey, let's start our own organization. I don't know what really happened, but your account and the citation in the article seen to indicate the Delta's left on their own, however; the AKAs invited them to return if they wished, which they chose not to accept. Basically, you can't break up with someone uf they've already broken up with you, and/or you can't fire someone if they've already quit even though you may tell them you're holding their job for them and if they're not at their desk monday morning, you're fired.--Ccson 08:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

i think bearly541 means they were given a deadline to accept or to get out. thus, they were forced. 207.200.122.106 23:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Bearly541 doesn't have an opinion, she simply provided a source and it's up to interpretation. What does DST have to say about their departure?--Ccson 06:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

In Search For Sisterhood is the Delta's official history. Bearly541 14:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I guess we know what they have to say. Then my prior opinion on this source remains the same. The Deltas had already begun DST and a final request from AKA doesn't mean they were forced.--Ccson 14:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

My Founders voted successfully (22 to 1) to change the name, motto, colors, direction of the organization, etc. of AKA. Nellie Quander objected. Nellie Quander left the meeting and gathered together members of AKA who had graduated from HU. After consulting with the graduate members of AKA, Nellie Quander offered my Founders a chance to come back into the AKA fold. This occurred after my Founders had already voted to accept Founder Madree Penn motion and recommendations. Of course, my Founders declined Nellie Quanders offer. From DST viewpoint Nellie Quander did not accept the majority vote. Of course, AKA has a different viewpoint. If you have any additonal questions email me at historicdst@yahoo.com.

User:Mykungfu

I was wondering the same thing; it's an AOL address, and the arguments looked familiar. I've rolled back his last revert; can you just take all the irrelevant Sigma Pi Phi content out of the article? I'll semi-protect if he won't stop. | Mr. Darcy talk 15:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

It is him. What's amazing is that I've had discussed this same topic with him several times within a year, yet he insists on talking about it every 3 months.--Ccson 16:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, now that I have the broom, he won't be able to cause the same disruption he did last time. Let me know if he goes after any other articles, as he did last time; A-Phi-A is the only one I have watchlisted at the moment. | Mr. Darcy talk 16:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. Just didn't look right to me, and I figured it was better to be safe given what else is going on on that page. | Mr. Darcy talk 04:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

PS, if you believe the anon editor is MKF, don't engage him in a dialogue. He's not supposed to be editing here at all, and we know from past experience that dialogue with him is futile. Just monitor the relevant articles to make sure he doesn't vandalize them again, and if he does, I'll semi-protect as usual. | Mr. Darcy talk 18:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I will take it.--Ccson 03:29, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

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