C0137H
Biddeford Regional Center of Technology moved to draftspace edit
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A belated welcome! edit
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Bkissin (talk) 21:48, 30 June 2021 (UTC)May 2022: First Wikipedia Disagreement edit
Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living (or recently deceased) persons, as you did to The Hacksmith. Don't restore this again, The cited source does not mention his birthplace. Meters (talk) 02:41, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- And the same for adding him to List of people from Ontario. Either provide a reliable source for his birth place or leave these alone. Meters (talk) 02:42, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @Meters, So you looked through and reverted your changes on List of people from Ontario, I was wondering if you would be doing the same for The Hacksmith or if I should go ahead. Don't want to Edit war but I do think that the source does list his birthplace, just not outright: "I wanted to give YouTube 100 per cent of my attention. I had recently moved back to downtown Kitchener and I was working on YouTube out of my 1,300-square-foot garage." If this is not good enough I can get another few sources. Thanks, - C0137H (talk) 23:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not undoing my revert on the other article. I know the ref says that he moved back, but that certainly does not verify that he was born there, only that he had previously lived there. We know went to school in KW, but so did I, and I wasn't born there. If you have a reliable source that states that he was born there then use it, don't make assumptions. Meters (talk) 05:35, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @Meters, So you looked through and reverted your changes on List of people from Ontario, I was wondering if you would be doing the same for The Hacksmith or if I should go ahead. Don't want to Edit war but I do think that the source does list his birthplace, just not outright: "I wanted to give YouTube 100 per cent of my attention. I had recently moved back to downtown Kitchener and I was working on YouTube out of my 1,300-square-foot garage." If this is not good enough I can get another few sources. Thanks, - C0137H (talk) 23:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at The Hacksmith, you may be blocked from editing. Stop doing this. None of those sources say he was born there. They say it is his home town, and that he grew up there. That's not the same as saying he was born there. Do you have a reliable source that actually states that he was born there?Unless you do, don't add this. Again, don't make assumptions.
Meters (talk) 19:00, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
- Does Of not colloquially mean born in? Also, Hometown, as defined by Cambridge English Dictionary is "the town or city that a person is from, especially the one in which they were born and lived while they were young" (Source: Cambridge English Dictionary) Anyway, you win? I am done editing on this page at all. - C0137H (talk) 01:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Neither mean "born in". What part of that do you not understand? I am from Montreal. I grew up there. I was educated in Waterloo. By the way you are using references you could claim that I was born in either Montreal or Waterloo, but neither is correct. Meters (talk) 06:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- So, then you would be "of" whatever town you were born in, no? Of, when used in the context of a title, generally refers to the persons place of birth. Also, good for you? I don't assume you call these areas your hometown, and if so, you are then using the term incorrectly, as previously defined in my last post as it requires both birth in the region and to grow up in the region. I also assume you wouldn't say you were of these areas, as you have clearly stated you were born elsewhere. Though honestly, I don't see what this has to do with you personally, I was just trying to contribute to the article. - C0137H (talk) 13:14, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- It has nothing to do with me personally, other than that I was providing examples. Let me put this simply. DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS. If a source does not explicitly list his birth place do not attempt to use it to support the claim. It does not matter if he has previously lived there, or if he has a garage there, or if he works there, or if he grew up there, or if he went school there, or if he is "of" there. You are claiming that he was born there, and so far you have provided four sources, none of which mention his birth place. Meters (talk) 18:46, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look, what I have been trying to tell you is that it does say these things, just without using the direct words "born", "born in". There are more concise ways to do something from a literary standpoint then outright waste an entire sentence to say properties of a person. Such as what these sourced authors are doing, as I have explained in depth throughout these posts (of and Hometown). I will admit that in my first attempt, the source was subpar, which is why I changed that source to the other 3. I feel like you understand this to some degree, and I have wasted far too long trying to explain this in perhaps more complicated ways than necessary. Some words and phrases can fill in for other words and phrases with the same meaning still applying. It is ok. - C0137H (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- No, it is not OK. It does not matter that you think the wording should be interpreted as meaning that he was born there. If you continue to claim that he was born in Kitchener without a source that actually says that you will end up blocked. Either provide us with areal source or leave it alone. Meters (talk) 02:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- A. Who is us? So far, I have only been talking to you and if one person's word is not good enough as you have said then clearly you must have someone else who agrees with you? I know that you had someone agree with you on the original source, but I changed that. B. The you in your previous post makes me think that you are in violation of WP:Ownership and WP:Civility, unless you can provide a second opinion. C. Those links all work, the sources were all there, so they are "real". They may not say "born" but they are real, tangible links to all sorts of information. D. Everything I said was backed up with research and an understanding of the English language, so it is not an "interpretation", only what is and is not. C0137H (talk) 15:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Read WP:V This is not just my opinion, and it is not even just general Wikipedia consensus, It is a core Wikipedia policy:
- A. Who is us? So far, I have only been talking to you and if one person's word is not good enough as you have said then clearly you must have someone else who agrees with you? I know that you had someone agree with you on the original source, but I changed that. B. The you in your previous post makes me think that you are in violation of WP:Ownership and WP:Civility, unless you can provide a second opinion. C. Those links all work, the sources were all there, so they are "real". They may not say "born" but they are real, tangible links to all sorts of information. D. Everything I said was backed up with research and an understanding of the English language, so it is not an "interpretation", only what is and is not. C0137H (talk) 15:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- No, it is not OK. It does not matter that you think the wording should be interpreted as meaning that he was born there. If you continue to claim that he was born in Kitchener without a source that actually says that you will end up blocked. Either provide us with areal source or leave it alone. Meters (talk) 02:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look, what I have been trying to tell you is that it does say these things, just without using the direct words "born", "born in". There are more concise ways to do something from a literary standpoint then outright waste an entire sentence to say properties of a person. Such as what these sourced authors are doing, as I have explained in depth throughout these posts (of and Hometown). I will admit that in my first attempt, the source was subpar, which is why I changed that source to the other 3. I feel like you understand this to some degree, and I have wasted far too long trying to explain this in perhaps more complicated ways than necessary. Some words and phrases can fill in for other words and phrases with the same meaning still applying. It is ok. - C0137H (talk) 23:54, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- It has nothing to do with me personally, other than that I was providing examples. Let me put this simply. DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS. If a source does not explicitly list his birth place do not attempt to use it to support the claim. It does not matter if he has previously lived there, or if he has a garage there, or if he works there, or if he grew up there, or if he went school there, or if he is "of" there. You are claiming that he was born there, and so far you have provided four sources, none of which mention his birth place. Meters (talk) 18:46, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- So, then you would be "of" whatever town you were born in, no? Of, when used in the context of a title, generally refers to the persons place of birth. Also, good for you? I don't assume you call these areas your hometown, and if so, you are then using the term incorrectly, as previously defined in my last post as it requires both birth in the region and to grow up in the region. I also assume you wouldn't say you were of these areas, as you have clearly stated you were born elsewhere. Though honestly, I don't see what this has to do with you personally, I was just trying to contribute to the article. - C0137H (talk) 13:14, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Neither mean "born in". What part of that do you not understand? I am from Montreal. I grew up there. I was educated in Waterloo. By the way you are using references you could claim that I was born in either Montreal or Waterloo, but neither is correct. Meters (talk) 06:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
| “ | All material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists, and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports[1] the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed. Please immediately remove contentious material about living people that is unsourced or poorly sourced. | ” |
| — Wikipedia:Verifiability | ||
- I've spent more than enough time on this. I've explained it several times. I've pointed you to the appropriate links. Your suggestion that I am violation ownership or civility is laughable. You have three choices: leave it alone, restore the claim with a WP:RS that explicitly states where he was born, or continue to add this claim without an appropriate source and eventually be blocked. Meters (talk) 18:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- Actually, this is the first time you have pointed me in the right direction this entire time, as I believed previously that you were motivated purely based on a belief that it had to be stated directly, due to your use of your own personal life as examples, rather than it being policy to do so. You were being rather rude and reverted edits without explaining them to a point where I could actually understand what you were saying up to this point. I have only been on this site for a year at this point and this is the first time I have had a disagreement. As you have pointed out, the definition for the "directly supports" is located in a submanual of style that before this I didn't even know existed. Will be reading this later. Thank you for the information, I apologize for the error, but it did lead to an actual answer eventually. - C0137H (talk) 22:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- I've spent more than enough time on this. I've explained it several times. I've pointed you to the appropriate links. Your suggestion that I am violation ownership or civility is laughable. You have three choices: leave it alone, restore the claim with a WP:RS that explicitly states where he was born, or continue to add this claim without an appropriate source and eventually be blocked. Meters (talk) 18:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- (ec) Actually this is the third time I have pointed you to appropriate links. If you had read the guideline link in the messages you would have already read WP:RS (and WP:CITE after the second warning). WP:RS links to WP:V in its lead. You can't blame me if you don't understand my explanation and don't follow the link.
The cited source does not mention his birthplace.
andEither provide a reliable source for his birth place or leave these alone
andIf you have a reliable source that states that he was born there then use it, don't make assumptions
andDo you have a reliable source that actually states that he was born there?Unless you do, don't add this. Again, don't make assumptions
seem clear. There's a certain amount of competence that is required for editing Wikipedia. Meters (talk) 23:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- (ec) Actually this is the third time I have pointed you to appropriate links. If you had read the guideline link in the messages you would have already read WP:RS (and WP:CITE after the second warning). WP:RS links to WP:V in its lead. You can't blame me if you don't understand my explanation and don't follow the link.
- Hi, I was trying to end this thread on a positive note. Also, those policies aren't what changed my mind as they are vague, it was the definition in the style manual. Calling me incompetent is not helpful and is again, rude. WP:RS and WP:V are not directly referenced until your last paragraph (assumedly because you were mad that I pointed out you were violating WP:Civility, which in my own opinion you still are. Not ownership though, that was a mistake on my part.) "Don't make Assumptions" doesn't tell me anything, and "Find a reliable source" doesn't help either because they were reliable sources, and did say what was necessary, just not explicit enough as per the definition provided by the style manual. C0137H (talk) 23:23, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b c A source "directly supports" a given piece of material if the information is present explicitly in the source so that using this source to support the material is not a violation of Wikipedia:No original research. The location of any citation—including whether one is present in the article at all—is unrelated to whether a source directly supports the material. For questions about where and how to place citations, see Wikipedia:Citing sources, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section § Citations, etc.
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