Most Serene Republic is the title of the article on the English Wikipedia, so it is inappropriate to use an (unlinked) alternate name. Thank you. El_C 16:23, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Dear Comrade, I don't see how to write you on your page, too a mess of a page, I am gonna write here. I don't know if you will see it but I guess u will. What count is the intention.
I agree it's inappropriate, a full change should be done and anyway that reason is not at all a motivation valid to publish online (leave it) an error that is pretty big. So if I may or anyone that is in good faith wants can fully change (with better experience than me) the entire article.
Anyway La Serenissima as "the most serene" is not a name that can be translated. Not even nicknames from football players are translated, but this is not even a barely a nick name! This is connected to history, heritage and mostly probably coming from a Noble title of the Doge who was the Serenissimo ... however heritage can be "explained" but reaching a "full official translation" of a proper noun is something I have only seen in 1800 - 1900 Era, we are in times in which not only we respect diversity, but also in times in which we have matured enough as global citizens to know that Heritage is Universal. Translating also losing tons of meaning from the original version, the title was not translated:
The French would call them at the time "La Serenissima" so would the English ,the Prussians, the Austrians .. anybody... even the Native indians would call the Republic of Venice "La Serenissima" if they ever met them or scratched the waters of the Mediterranean sea.
Translation is falsification in this case. Please help me fully rehaul this entry which is clearly written in good faith but it's wrong to say that is "Formally known as "the most serene"... this is a PROPER NOUN not only originating from a noble title, it's actually a CAPITAL "S" not minuscule s...
If translated a meaning to it is already given when instead we don't know at all yet why Serenissima di Venezia was actually called Serenissima.
Just imagine on a "newspaper" (it did not exist yet) in center of London a title that would go "The most Serene" of Venezia has declared war to bla bla bla ba. Hell, that would be impossible. They would be called LA SERENISSIMA of Venice, that's 101% sure.
How can I explain. I just get upset that people with no understanding of disciplines do edit and take everything for granted. That's actually doing a disservice to venice and to our universal heritage. Thank you actually for writing. Albero1 16:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
- You can propose to re-title Most Serene Republic into La Serenissima — that would be the right procedure to undertake, with following edits being based on that request succeeding. You are effectively making changes through the back door, which is inappropriate, and places the article into a state of disrepair. El_C 16:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
- I am being accused now of doing changes on the back door. Ok If it is so it's not what I want to do and OF COURSE it's a proposal, it's not a IPSE DIXIT.
- I am just suggesting and I would never make a change \ hack.
- I just know that wikipedia can be edited and that people will discuss it, surely not take it and revert it with silly accusations, but instead a discussion, and that's a problem you started not me.
- If my position is wrong, I just know that edits can be done, I am not defacing or doing nothing strange.
- Surely I would love to talk before even touching the entry , dear El_C .. and I am talking to everybody not just you, but unfortunately I did not know that I could go in the history and discuss it and see if somebody would notice my history entry which I for example just posted.
- Anyway now all this has taken a spin it should not ahve taken.
- For me Wikipedia was a simple thing, people edit, discuss, admin checks but revert or accusation should be avoided. Let's discuss. I just did not know that a change can be "SUGGESTED": how? where if not via edit?
- Please avoid mis interpretating my actions, there is a clear mis understanding.
- Please review WP:INDENT and WP:SIG. There is no misunderstanding. You are breaking the link, which places the article into a state of disrepair. This can be addressed through a move request. It's not complicated. El_C 17:13, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
El_C Thanks for the reply and the redirect, I thought we were here to work in teams, for me that's natural stuff. I do not how to do these changes, but I am not gonna ask you to do them, if you don't agree in these changes, I just am very sad for this kind of British appropriation of Heritage which comes with the dominance of english as a world language, we live in a global world and we are supposed to respect each other values and heritage, it's universal, and it's a universal cause. Anyway, no problems I can't do that, and it would take too much time I would create more problems and I see much difficulty in people resisting to what changes I do as there is not much patience. Thanks for your patience and explanation so far. Albero1 17:23, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
--- EDIT : more over, if I do that change and request it's not a good idea as I need people to agree over the change. IT's not worth to ask for such a change if people do not share that there is a problem of bias etc in the translation of such proper noun which is a "title (proper)" not an adjective like good, old, happy, calm, serene... hell no. These nationalizations of heritage were done pre 1945, today we are in another world and especially after 2020 events, but even before them we knew this all the way along, universal heritage cannot be distorted like that.
OTherwise WE RISK that The Republic of Venice passes to the history as IN ALL LANGUAGES "the most serene" not as "La Serenissima". How can't anybody see it?
- Albero1, glad to help. But sorry, I cannot do this for you. Again, the documentation is available at WP:RM. That is the editorial process you need to engage if you wish to supplant Most Serene Republic with La Serenissima, elsewhere too. If you have quality sources that you can show represent scholarly consensus for English-language usage (because we tend to go by the WP:COMMONNAME), you may indeed succeed in gaining consensus for the request. It's up to you about whether to proceed — the level of confidence you have for the veracity of your changes. The point, though, is to invoke Wikipedia policy rather than other considerations. This is an encyclopedia. We do not advocate. Thanks. El_C 17:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)