User talk:A. B./August 2007

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This page is a chronological archive of past discussions from User talk:A. B. for the month of August 2007. Exchanges spilling over from late July or into early September may have been retained elsewhere to avoid breaking their continuity. In order to preserve the record of past discussions, the contents of this page should be preserved in their current form. Please do NOT make new edits to this page. If you wish to make new comments or re-open an old discussion thread, please do so on the User talk:A. B. page. If necessary, copy the relevant discussion thread to the user talk:A. B. page and then add your comments there.

Naval nuclear propulsion

There seems to be some dispute about whether the Scorpion and Thresher sinkings should be referenced in Nuclear marine propulsion's list of "naval nuclear accidents." I've posted on the talk page requesting some discussion on that point. If you're interested, could you please drop by and post your rationale for keeping or deleting those list entries? Rem01 02:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Done -- thanks for flagging this. --A. B. ^(talk) 19:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

CyberExtension comment

I apologize if I am posting this in the wrong place. I have added citations on the CyberExtension page to sources that meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. I would request that you review the posting again and reconsider your Delete request. (Note that I changed the lang.* URL on your page so I could submit this since that URL is blacklisted).
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dmeglio (talk • contribs) 20:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you have links to the newspaper articles you've cited? I'd like to read them. Thanks, --A. B. ^(talk) 14:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well the one in the Scranton Times is available at http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11286440&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=416046&rfi=6

I also found the Floral Park Dispatch one online (http://www.antonnews.com/threevillagetimes/2005/04/29/news/sewanhaka.html) and I have updated the CyberExtension page to include this link now). I was originally linking to the review article, now I have the actual article. The Pocono Record article is definitely gone off the Internet, however. I do have print copies of the articles, but I do not know the legality of posting a scan online and I'd rather not risk violating copyright law by doing so. I hope this helps.

Revised Rather than follow the links here, there are now links to all of the articles except the Pocono Record article on the CyberExtension page. The Pocono Record page had a link, but it has since been removed. They must not keep them up on the web very long...

Thanks -- I've updated my AfD comments. --A. B. ^(talk) 19:41, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

RfA

Thanks, and yes, I'll definitely be trying again soon.  :) --Elonka 23:41, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Closure of the Siberian Wikipedia

Per the authentication requirements of this closure discussion, I certify here on my en.wikipedia talk page that I made this edit strongly supporting the closure of the Siberian Wikipedia. --A. B. ^(talk) 02:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Brian New Zealand

The good thing is that he's been around here long enough that he won't be bothered by opposition on such mind boggling ground. And it seems like he'll still pass without much trouble so I have stopped caring about his RfA. When I first got involved, support was around 66% and I was concerned he might actually fail and I'm happy to see common sense prevail. Cheers, Pascal.Tesson 05:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, I'm puzzled: why did you not submit an RfA a looooooong time ago? We haven't interacted much since I left WikiProject Spam but I remember as a pretty upbeat editor with sound judgment and the kind of person who would have little trouble at RfA. In any case, if you're interested in a nomination, I'd be happy to take a closer look at your edits and write a nom if I'm satisfied by that check. Perhaps you already have nominators lined up but let me know if you want to take me up on that offer: only a ridiculously small subset of editors are bothered by self-noms but you might as well avoid them. Pascal.Tesson 06:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Pascal, thanks for asking. I was preoccupied this year with caregiving for a very ill relative who has since passed away. As soon as I catch up from all of that, I hope to stand -- hopefully in a few days or a week if I don't have to travel.--A. B. ^(talk) 13:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Nudge me if you do :-) - you know where to find me and I don't come on here any more than I have too! --Herby ^{talk thyme} 11:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Smile

Viv Hamilton has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

For stepping in with such sensible suggestions to calm down the heat in the maritime quest discussion - and for the nice comments about valued long term contributor and good faith editor Viv Hamilton 17:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks -- makes my day. --A. B. ^(talk) 17:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

More Cruise Ship Spam

You helped me previously getting a cruise ship spam site blacklisted. Well, I've got another one for you. The site is http://www.cruiseweb.nl/ and it's getting posted to a variety of articles by 89.220.46.91. Let me know if you need any additional information. Malson 02:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Malson, blacklisting is a really severe step that we use as a last resort after multiple warnings, blocks, etc. Since many other web sites use our blacklist data in programming their own linkspam filters, blacklisting someone here may affect their site far beyond Wikipedia.

Some questions:

1. Have you tried just communicating with the person? What was his/her response?

   Most spammers stop after the first request.

2. Is cruiseweb.nl a bad site? (I'm still not sure the nedcruise site was all that bad.)
3. How long has this been going on? Has this person gotten lots of warnings? have they used other accounts?

I hope this helps. If I'm not available, feel free to post at WT:WPSPAM. --A. B. ^(talk) 03:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Expanding up on my comment above about the impact of the meta spam blacklist: if a site is put on the global blacklist, then its links will be be blocked across all 700+ Wikimedia Foundation projects, all 3,000+ Wikia sites plus hundreds of other, unrelated wikis that run on the same MediaWiki software we use. Also there are rumours that Google and others may sometimes consult our meta blacklist when deciding whether to penalize spamdexers in their search rankings. --A. B. ^(talk) 23:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Stickycarpet.com

I draw you attention to the post by this site's webmaster

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#stickycarpet.com
• meta:Talk:Spam blacklist#stickycarpet.com

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.123.37.252 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks. There are multiple places we can discuss this -- I suggest we centralize it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#stickycarpet.com. I'll put my blacklisting request on hold for now. --A. B. ^(talk) 19:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I left a comment there, as well as on the article. The post advising him to study our article on libel and slander was completely unnecessary. While I'm not going to redact it, the legal issue needs to stay out of this. No legal threats have been made, and in the event they are, we do not antagonize the user, we simply block under NLT, and refer them to contact the foundation through OTRS, at which point the legal department will deal with it. ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 17:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I just replied to your similar comments at WP:ANI#Potential legal threat made by the owner of stickycarpet.com/dam (permanent link). Feel free to redact away if you think that would be appropriate here -- I'd rather "get this right than get it my way". --A. B. ^(talk) 17:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) No problem, I think headsups at AN/I or AN are usually a great thing. It worked in this case, obviously ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 17:45, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous complaint (from a stickymap.com principal)

This user has a reputation for over policing the website and removing content that adds value to articles. The user does not follow the criteria that Wikipedia expects administrators to use when making content related decisions. Instead, A. B is known for enforcing rules improperly, inconsistently, and poorly. I've recommended that A. B be judged by the Wikipedia Administrator Evaluators Committee, and have scheduled a hearing two weeks from today. -C. D.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 157.191.2.16 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Comments:

1. I don't think there is a "Wikipedia Administrator Evaluators Committee" around here.
2. I'm not an admin anyway.
3. What particular content removals are you concerned about? (If you want to complain to an admin on Wikipedia about my edits, they're going to want specifics).

--A. B. ^(talk) 18:07, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for posting the notice. I am frustrated with your policy of removing stickymap links that geocode locations. I'd greatly appreciate if you could explain why leaving a link that shows where the location is located in the reference section is inappropriate. Why is a wikimapia link ok, but a stickymap link not? The most frustrating issue for me is that I do not believe that these links are being placed intentionally as "spam", and I have users of my website complaining to me that their content is being taken down from your site.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 157.191.2.16 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, there are several issues here:

1. Are these links appropriate to the articles they're being added to?

• I don't think so; see the following:
  • External Links Guideline
  • "Wikipedia is Not" Policy, in particular:
    • Wikipedia is not a link farm
    • Wikipedia is not a soapbox for promoting a web site or business
• We like actual references that support text in our articles. As for just general external links to sites such as yours, we try to minimise them. See the "Spamhole essay" -- lots of external links just seem to attract more and more links of steadily lower quality.
• As I explained once already at User talk:38.117.159.162#Stickymap.com_links_on_Wikipedia, we already have a group that deals with geographic information in articles: WikiProject Geographical coordinates

2. Appropriate or not, should editors associated with stickymap.com add links?

• No: see Wikipedia's Conflict of Interest Guideline
• Adding lots of links to your own site constitutes spam in our eyes, especially after you ignore requests to stop. See our Spam Guideline

3. How to deal with others on Wikipedia:

• Don't ignore warnings and keep adding links
  • User talk:66.234.56.131 -- 1 warning
  • User talk:38.117.159.162 -- 4 warnings (←that's a lot!)
• We run on consensus -- engage with others in discussion rather than just adding links everyone else deletes. There have been plenty of other editors deleting your links and leaving warnings.
• Don't delete content from our project pages.^[1] We consider this disruptive behaviour.
• Do stay civil. Folks around here don't like getting slapped for just doing their job..

Taken together, this sort of behaviour really irritates others and draws more and more editors and admins into dealing with the problem. stickymaps.com's obstinacy has earned it a place on this week's short list of truly persistent, aggravating spam problems.

We're "the encyclopedia anyone can edit." We rely on requests, then warnings and we hope for good behaviour. If an editor persists, we may block his account, but there's nothing to stop them from getting a new user name or a new IP number and keeping at it. If someone's as obstinate as stickymap.com has been, however, we do have one defence that works -- domain blacklisting. That's a severe step that we use only as a last resort after multiple warnings. Once on our global blacklist, then a domain's links are blocked across all 700+ Wikimedia Foundation projects, all 3,000+ Wikia sites plus hundreds of other, unrelated wikis that run on the same MediaWiki software we use. See this request:

• meta:Talk:Spam blacklist#stickymap.com (permanent link)

--A. B. ^(talk) 19:44, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

A.B. - Thank you for explaining your reasoning. I understand why you believe it is important to remove spam from Wikipedia, as we've also been struggling with how to control abuse on Stickymap. So, I completely see where you're coming from.

I want you to know that to my knowledge, no one on the Stickymap development team has posted links on Wikipedia. We have not used Wikipedia to promote our website, nor have any of us been asked to stop posting links. We do not spam websites or engage in abusive linking practices.

However, we do have a small community of users who are beta testing our software and I suspect that a few of them have been posting links on Wikipedia with only good intentions. I agree with you that some of the links are probably excessive and should be removed. However, I suspect that there are a few that are legitimate and our users may have a few more legitimate ones to add in the future. By blacklisting Stickymap, you would be preventing our entire community of users from posting material on Wikipedia. I believe that the best solution is to speak with each user on an individual basis instead of punishing everyone collectively.

If you believe that there is something that we can do to help with this problem, please do not hesitate to send us an email (which you can get from our blog, blog.stickymap.com) and we'll do our best.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 157.191.2.16 (talk • contribs) 06:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

From our perspective, it's pretty hard to determine who's adding links from an IP address -- the site owner or a fan.

I encourage you to make your case at the WikiProject Spam entry for your case:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Spam#Stickymap.com, yet another googlemaps hack (permanent link)

--A. B. ^(talk) 17:26, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Follow-up:

• meta:Talk:Spam blacklist#stickymap.com (permanent link)
• MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist#stickymap.com link (permanent link)

--A. B. ^(talk) 02:00, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

IvyWise

Recently you reinserted this text:

"Kat Cohen is one of the most expensive private admissions counselors and has, on several occasions, used her own connections to place clients in exclusive summer internships, overrepresenting the student's drive and accomplishment. In essence, she is selling not only information and expertise but also her own social network, something most Americans would consider highly unethical. Her services support the cynical claim that meritocracy is dead because one can "buy a résumé". In the cases when her clients' identities become known on campus, it has been detrimental to their social lives. One client, in the spring of 2006, left Harvard due to harassment after the discovery of her relationship with IvyWise."

I assume you did this by mistake; this is highly biased writing and unsupported (ref to the "2006 client"). I've taken it out. Pablosecca 12:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is the last version which I had a hand in writing. Any edits after that were reversions of vandalism or unsourced, POV material. It looks like I did not revert far enough in this edit I later made. Thank you for catching this insertion. --A. B. ^(talk) 12:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Stealing a wikipedia

I could create a template... THF 19:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

• This was a brilliant statement, "Stealing an entire wikipedia does not appear in our grid of standard warnings, so I was at a loss as to what to say on his talk page. (I settled for "very bad" but I hope I don't get hit with an {{uw-agf1}} warning myself since this was only his first hijacking.)"

Thank you for giving me a nice laugh. Johntex\^talk 21:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! --A. B. ^(talk) 23:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

See:

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive288#Hijack an article .. then hijack an entire wikipedia for yourself?
• User talk:Striker buzcu#Please do not usurp articles and even whole Wikipedias for your personal projects.

--A. B. ^(talk) 02:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Biblewalks.com

Wow. You really stood the ground there A.B. I moved on after Aphaia's refusal - I find it so depressing arguing on something that seems that obvious that if I stick around it just makes me want to stop doing this stuff at all. I had no idea you were working so hard on it. Thank you! That's a great win for all the WF projects. -- SiobhanHansa 12:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I was happy to do it. It seems the regular spam-blacklisters on meta may be on holiday this month, so there was some learning curve for the others. That also coincided with the advent of local spam blacklists and no protocol had been established for when to use meta vs. local. --A. B. ^(talk) 12:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Something more than a "curve" (!) but I'm getting better at it (sticky done btw!) --Herby ^{talk thyme} 13:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

squidoo.com

Looks worth listing? Still an issue? Cheers --Herby ^{talk thyme} 10:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)