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Paso discussion 2008-09
editDiscussion about paso breeds from 08-09
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Hey, long time no chat. A newbie just created Puerto Rican Paso Fino, which I didn't merge or redirect 'cause heck, I dunno if it deserves its own article. Wanna help the newbie out? later! Ling.Nut (talk—WP:3IAR) 08:51, 6 December 2008 (UTC) I'll be glad to add any source material needed for " Puerto Rican Paso Fino" or " Paso Fino - Sub Directory Puerto Rican Paso Fino" Much will have to be translated as sources for this breed are mainly in Spanish. But I will start with what is wanted most if anyone has suggestions. Arsdelicata (talk) 03:18, 7 December 2008 (UTC) Arsdelicata (talk) 03:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC) Hi Montanabw, I've read the appy article and the others as well. I have less info on the Colombian Paso Fino... I don't know how the article can be incorporated exactly. There is going to alot of hard work with the breed standards. Each country has a different one, Colombian Paso Finos are Called different things, Paso Fino Colombiano, Caballo Colombiano de Paso. etc. in Puerto Rico. In Colombia, my understanding is that they have one national breed called Caballo Criollo Colombiano, with three gaits Paso Fino ( this is Modality or gait within the CCC ) Trocha ( no word in English to my knowledge. It is a rapid, Diagonal trot with no suspension period in the air, so therefore it is very comfortable.) Trote y Galope ( Trot and Gallop/Canter)No word for canter in Spanish to my knowledge. these three " Varieties" called modalities of Gait over there, while considered one breed are rarely mixed, as it would be detrimental to the specific gait of the " Variety". I'm also not sure how to ask for input on Paso Fino talk... I notice that there are ratings there... but no questions or suggestions or corrections. Portal Colombia gave the lowest rating... but why don't they explain why or add what needs to be added? Thanx for your time in advance. Arsdelicata (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Colombian Paso Fino and PasoseditHi Montanabw, I am told that the FAO (2005) recognized the Colombian Criollo Breed. No link to FAO, but here is the WiKipage I read about it on Iberian horse. If we can find them online and see how they describe or word the breed/breeds/types/forms, It will/might help greatly. Arsdelicata (talk) 04:48, 2 January 2009 (UTC) MTW, this is the champion Caballo Criollo Colombiano Paso Fino in Colombia, he was flown to PR and won the Paso Mundial in 2005 and I think also won the USA mundial. So I think this is a 3x or more World champion. Colombian Paso Fino Champion Arsdelicata (talk) 06:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC) This is a Caballo Colombiano or Trocha and Galope Trocha and Golope . Arsdelicata (talk) 08:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC) This is a Video of Colombian Trocha, with some slow motion takes, by the paso Pedigree site you likes Champion Colombian Trocha, and slow motion
Arsdelicata (talk) 11:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Montanabw, the foxtrot is an easy traveling gait. The trocha is a snappier show gait. The front leg may land an instant before the hind of opposite side, but just an instant (as in the trot). Some refer to the foxtrot as walking in the front end while trotting in the back end. Trocha is a square gait, the movement equal in both front and rear ends prized, plus the piston choo choo action that the foxtrot is not. Some trainers can get a paso to do both paso fino and trocha well enough to have it registered as both a paso fino and a trocha horse in the registry or as one in one registry and the other gait in another registry. but, some trocha aficionados feel that this ruins the trocha, because trocha horses when tired of trocha or when collected,( pressure applied to the reins ) with then start to paso fino instead. Some trocha breeders believe fino blood will ruin the trocha gait and discourage using it for this reason. I am think of making animations(animated gifs) of all these gaits to illustrate the differences. The lateral Paso Gaits and even the rack, flat walk, and others also differ. For example, the Peruvian Paso lifts the front legs higher that it's rear legs as it moves, this is not a good trait in the classic fino or trocha classes where equality is prized. Because I was used to trotting breeds before my interest in pasos, I had a hard time seeing the differences in the beginning, all pasos and even the rack, tolt, and others looking all alike to me (and they are pretty similar). An Asian horse the Marwari,(seen in India and Pakistan) can also execute a lateral gait called the "Rawal." But I need to get the books that explain this well. I only know of the "Rawal" from youtube. It seems that aficionados may not except a that a tolt and rack are the same in many ways, or maybe a locomotion expert will say they are some day and really tick off a lot of people. On the other hand, breed aficionados may often explain the differences to show how these breeds differ from one another. Many smooth gaited horse breed aficionados seem to of have been un-aware of each other in the past, and claimed to have the smoothest gait in the entire world. As they become aware of each other that wording will hopefully change, yet some still claim they are the smoothest because the legs are lifted less, because their is no head shake, because the feat land in equal 1-2-3-4 time intervals or whatever. but in reality, it is all just propaganda, redundant and very tiring. I think the general term of "a smooth gait" is best instead of this "smoothest in world stuff."Arsdelicata (talk) 19:16, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
But, admitting that I am a cretan, (though we did once own a halfbred Tennessee Walker who was gaited) As far as I can tell, the Tolt and the Rack ARE almost exactly the same thing other than perhaps in performance style -- both are rapid four beat lateral gaits that I think are supposed to be performed with an even 1-2-3-4 rhythm (and if I may be an apostate, other than style, is there really any difference between the rack and the largo? LOL!) (grinning, ducking and running...) I have ridden the Largo, and admit that it's an absolute head rush...never realized how fast it was until I stopped, turned around and noticed that a friend's quarter horse was GALLOPING to catch up! =:-D
Cool, we agree. I noted the Peruvian Paso divides differences in extension. One gait(the faster more extended) being more like a broken pace a lateral 1-2, 3-4. This is what Andadura is really. and the same way they divided the gait into extensions, the Paso Fino did the same with Corto and largo, but to say it that way would be "original research" I guess. Yes, a diagonal 1-2, 3-4 is I think the best way to describe the foxtrot. I ordered the International Encyclopedia of horse breeds book, so when I get it I'll place quotes on different pages for "Rawal" and the Costa Rican Saddle horse, or any other tidbit I think can benefit a particular article. The problem with some words as well, is the meaning, and that meaning changing depending on where you are geographically or who you are speaking to. Criollo sort of means local, native or indigenous, so if you are in Costa Rica they are probably talking about their particular native horses, but they might be talking about the "Criollo", that other tough Argentinian breed, gosh, you know, Paso just means step really. Today I told a non horse person something about thoroughbreds, called "pure bloods" in Spanish. Since they were not a horse person they asked me if I was referring to "racehorses" and I said yes, suddenly realizing that to them thoroughbred just means "well bred horses," and not a particular breed. It has me really stumped sometimes when thinking about how to word things in writing. I'll be back to work on the articles, probably the paso fino sandbox most, then others as I get material on them. you really have to see Trocha with your own eyes in regular as well as slow motion since it is so fast, to understand it. the foot fall is most like a trot, but really fast, and they don't bounce up and down. The body of the horse stays still. Arsdelicata (talk) 02:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC) Hi Montanabw, Galope/ the Colombian GallopThis is slow motion and other explanations of the Colombian Galope, or Canter where the horse always has at least one leg on the ground, making it smoother than any other. The voice over explanation is in Spanish, BUT the slow motion shots will let you see exactly what is going on. Arsdelicata (talk) 05:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
The PFHA is now having shows (Categories) for Trocha and Trote and Golope Horses. So For now I'll work on keeping them included in the sandbox, and getting more info to elaborate. Maybe your idea on sections is good until each one cane enough to be it's own article.Arsdelicata (talk) 16:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC) |
On the Resemblence (NOT) of the Sorraia and Przewalski
editGreetings Montana--so glad for your weighing in on the statement and reference of the similarities in phenotype of the Sorraia and Przewalski. From where I sit, what Kim was relaying is linked to the close, though not identical clustering of mtDNA as grounds for what would better be termed, "genetic relatedness", which I expect to bring up in the discussion page (if not tonight, then tomorrow). "Resemblence" of phenotype are completely different and there are no similarities other than the Przewalski is dun and Sorraias are dun and grulla. But as I thought we came to an understanding on, the dun of the Sorraia is different than that of the Przewalski which has the pangare dilution giving it lighter underparts and a "mealy" mouth (also lightness around the eyes), whereas the Sorria displays dark, sooty features...its distinctly different. Przewalski horses tend towards a majority of red dun, which is something you never find in Sorraia. And I wish maybe some of the folks who want to lump Przewalski with Sorraia would actually look at the photos of the two--or are the HUGE differences only apparent to me, (she who lives with a Sorraia stallion?). At any rate, how very interesting the Sorraia review has become! Selona (talk) 00:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Montana, yes, I can always use more beer. You know one of the slogans I best like is "Drink Guinness, It's Good For You". Thanks for your comments. I can appreciate snarkiness when the snarker is a self-aware individual, which you seem to be. And though it's kicked up a lot of dust, I think its beneficial to explore the possibility that Przewalski is not the only living "true wild" horse, although I realize you've surely got better things to do than spend any brain power on what you consider an absurd postulation. LOL!Selona (talk) 14:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Mustang resources/Colonial Spanish horse
edit- http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_offices/Rawlins/wh/desertdust.html History of Mustangs in Wyoming... "he rancher estimated that six to seven thousand horses once roamed that part of Wyoming." Includes story of "Desert Dust."
NORTH AMERICAN COLONIAL SPANISH HORSE Part I, History and Type by D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, Ph.D.
Global Horse culture interview with Sponenberg
"Conservation of Spanish Mustangs/Colonial Spanish Horses in the USA, and the need for a complete inventory of remaining undocumented horses." D. P. Sponenberg
- http://www.horseoftheamericas.com Horse of the Americas registry
Pryor Mustangs
NORTH AMERICAN COLONIAL SPANISH HORSE UPDATE, July 2011 D. Phillip Sponenberg, DVM, PhD
- http://vetmed.tamu.edu/directorydetail?UserID=255 Gus Cothran, the other expert
- http://www.livescience.com/27686-mustangs.html Mustangs are a breed argument
- http://www.nmautah.org/wildhorse.htm#What%20is%20a%20Mustang? "not a breed" argument North American Mustang Assn
- http://ambainc.net/?page_id=2 American Mustang and Burro Association, Inc.
" The American Mustang is a descendant of the first horses introduced into North America by the Spanish Conquistadores. During the last two centuries some genetic influence has occurred from U.S. Cavalry mounts and ranch horses which have run loose among the herds of wild horses in the western U.S"
- http://americanmustangsociety.com (dead link)
- National Park Service and feral horses: http://www.thehorse.com/articles/35557/managing-feral-horses-on-national-park-service-lands
- Forest service main page on horses on their lands http://www.fs.fed.us/rangelands/ecology/wildhorseburro/whb_faqs.shtml (incl evolved in North America)