User:KoshVorlon/NFCC Research

• Researching past post on NCFF, specific questions and responses from NFCC archive

• Reason - to understand better and learn from those who have asked before me. Also to serve as a secondary source for others.

Dolly the Sheep

Since Dolly the Sheep is a sort of test-case for this new procedure, I have a few comments to make.

Imagine if Dolly were still alive. How feasible would it be to find out where she was kept and obtain permission to photograph her for wikipedia (it's not like we have a brand name like Britannica, CNN or the BBC)? This can be expanded to anybody who is alive and notable enough to have an entry in wikipedia, and to resources not available to the general public (things in museums, in the vaults of museums, private art collections, the inside of famous buildings, military, etc). We need to consider what is best to be done in these cases where it isn't feasible (or likely) that a wikipedian will be able to photograph the famous item or person, or to find a public domain image (because if these famous things/people are rarely seen then there are people who make a living from selling images of them, not by placing them in the public domain).

I would also like there to be a (well-thought out) policy on things like:

• which articles can be illustrated with cd/book covers if these are deemed to be fair-use (e.g. is it the same thing to illustrate an article about an album with the cover of an album, and to illustrate an article about a bird with the cover of a book about birds which happens to have a great photograph of that bird on the cover?)
• if it is permissible to freely copy images of paintings etc which themselves have no copyright (e.g. can we use an image of a famous 300-year-old painting held in an art gallery - these images of paintings may be considered copyrightable, art galleries certianly generate revenue from selling them, and they also prevent members of the public from photographing the works of art themselves)
• can artistic wikipedians base drawings/illustrations on copyrighted photographs, does that wikipedian have the right to release their image under the GFDL, or is it a derivitive work and a copyright violation?

I have long been confused by the copyright policy, and laws of the USA, and the impact of both on future editions of wikipedia (e.g. paper copies, which will presumably be sold in other countries). If we have to delete all our images and start afresh, so be it, but I want the policy to defined now, to be in line with the law, explicit and easy to understand, and forwardthinking (i.e. we must consider these cd-rom or paper versions of wikipedia now, or face doing this all again in the future). fabiform | talk 17:48, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You should always illustrate such articles with identifying artwork. Use of such images in association with the work they are promoting is going to be fair use. You also won't get a GFDL license except in extremely unusual cases. See Online service provider law for a selection of things which cannot be copyrighted. That answers your question about copies of artworks long out of copyright: not copyrightable in the US or UK. The only policy which will result in complying with all possibly applicable local laws and which will also avoid forking the project into different copyright camps is to tag and eventually develop ways to selectively exclude content which has not yet been replaced wiki-fashion with whatever license the requesting party wants to comply with. Jamesday 08:59, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Dolly

Specific case, rather than general policy. Dolly is now stuffed, mounted, and on display at the Royal Museum in Edinburgh. Assuming the museum allows visitors to take photos (UK museums generally do, don't they?), replacing the Roslin Institute's picture with one almost as lifelike is something any Edinburgh wikipedian could do quite easily next time they're up by Chambers Street. –Hajor 20:48, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If that's the one with all the natural history (stuffed elephants and the like), then I remember taking photographs when I visited. Although I don't know if photography's allowed generally in all UK museums. I'm sure it is often discouraged, limited to non-flash, or outright banned in most places I've been to. fabiform | talk 21:06, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm expecting in most cases we could either be rebellious and take photos anyway, or negotiate special permission with the folks in charge. Some effort required. Do we use a fair use image until that happens? Martin 21:18, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In some museums, the lighting and glass cases (when used) would make photography difficult, so special permission would probably work better than covert/rebellious photography (if they are willing to grant it).  :) For what it's worth I just emailed the Museums of Scotland people asking on their policy on visitors taking photographs since their site had no FAQ. fabiform | talk 21:29, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Permission to photograph anything on exhibit in the National Museums of Scotland for Wikipedia has been denied. Fabiform, can you explain the conditions under which they notified you of that denial? Do they not allow any photography at all, or just photography intended for publication in a collaborative free-content encyclopaedia? –Hajor 20:24, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)