Template talk:Native name/Archive 1

Archive 1

Substitution

I imagine that every time a page that transcludes this template is rebuilt, it is unnecessary to also call {{lang}} and {{language icon}} again since the output always stays the same. I tried to understand the help page about substitution but it gave me a headache so I didn't quite get it. If anyone knows how to use the substitution function in such a way that every time a page is rebuilt, this template doesn't call those language templates anymore (but only once at the time it is transcluded) I would be grateful. What I do want to prevent is to substitute this whole template directly (i.e. {{subst:native name|...}}), so just leave this template transcluded on the page as-is (in the source as {{native name|...}}). Styath (talk) 19:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Native name in non-Latin script

While using this template in some articles { {native name|sr-Cyrl|A} } I noticed that I get italicized text while according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Foreign terms recommends that text in non-Latin scripts (such as Greek, Cyrillic or Chinese) should not be italicized at all—even where this is technically feasible; the difference of script suffices to distinguish it on the page. Can someone make necessary changes so that in this form text is not italicized? Please bear in mind that it can not be just turned of completely for Serbian language (the one that I was using) since it is one of the languages with active digraphia where in this concrete case both Serbian Cyrillic alphabet and Gaj's Latin alphabet are used. I need { {native name|sr-Cyrl|A} } and only this one should be changed. Thank you for your time and especially if you can help me with this. Have a nice day.--MirkoS18 (talk) 00:52, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I just realized how to do it.--MirkoS18 (talk) 10:40, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

italics=off/no doesn't work anymore

Just FYI:

{{native name|nl|Test}} → Test (Dutch)

{{native name|nl|Test|italics=off}} → Test (Dutch)

{{native name|nl|Test|italics=no}} → Test (Dutch)

Thayts ••• 19:59, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

It does now, apparently. DePiep (talk) 08:33, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

A link to a DAB page

In Sardinia, {{native name|lij|<small>Region autonoma dâ Sardegna</small>}} calls the DAB page Ligurian language rather than Ligurian (Romance language). Could someone who knows their way around the innards of this template fix this problem? Thanks in advance. Narky Blert (talk) 12:42, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Links to a DAB page

In Mangnai, and Muli Tibetan Autonomous County, and Ulan County, the parameter "bo" generates a link to the DAB page Tibetan language instead of to Standard Tibetan. Thanks in advance if you can solve this problem. Narky Blert (talk) 15:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Another link to a DAB page

In Laigueglia, the parameter "lij" generates a link to the DAB page Ligurian language instead of to Ligurian (Romance language). Thanks in advance if you can solve this problem. Narky Blert (talk) 14:50, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Support for non-Latin scripts

When writing a language in a less common script (e.g. the Arabic script to write Kyrgyz or Chinese Xiao'erjing), I've used {{lang}} and specified "-Arab" so that the correct, more legible font would be chosen. Compare {{lang|ky|قىرعىزچا}}‎ قىرعىزچا with {{lang|ky-Arab|قىرعىزچا}}‎ قىرعىزچا.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work with this template: {{native name|ky-Arab|قىرعىزچا|italics=off}}‎ قىرعىزچا (Kyrgyz). Is there a way to fix this problem. Specifically, could the template be changed such that it parse "ky-Arab" correctly? Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 17:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I've made an edit in the sandbox that adds a script parameter. This allows for a specific, less common script to be used. Examples include the Arabic script for Kyrgyz. This parameter is necessary for the right default font to be chosen. For example, {{native name/sandbox|ky|قىرعىزچا|italics=off|script=Arab}} قىرعىزچا (Kyrgyz) is more legible and consistent with other Arabic script languages than {{native name/sandbox|ky|قىرعىزچا|italics=off}} قىرعىزچا (Kyrgyz).

Can the edit be updated on the actual template? Thanks. Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 15:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Done Mdann52 (talk) 06:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Tracking down a hard-coded name for categories

This template is used eg in the expandable list at the top of the infobox on Indian rupee with the code dgo for Dogri language. However, it somehow generates the category Category:Articles containing Dogri (individual language)-language text. Now Dogri (individual language) is a redirect to Dogri language but it's obviously not ideal to use it in a category like that. I've looked round but can't figure out where this is hard-coded, as it's obviously separate to the main dgo->Dogri language conversion. The only place I've found with the redirect is User:SyntaxTerror/sandbox but that doesn't seem to lead anywhere. Can anyone help? Le Deluge (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

using Module:ISO 639 name

Module:ISO 639 name consolidates all of the ISO 639-1, -2, -3, -5 codes and names into a single data set extracted from the 639 custodians. It has the additional goal of making all of the various {{ISO 639 name xx}} templates obsolete. In future, {{ISO 639 name}} will call this module. In the meantime, I am replacing calls to that template with calls to the module in select templates as a mechanism for evaluating the performance of the module and have done so here.

Module:ISO 639 name emits a variety of error messages and when it does, adds the article to Category:ISO 639 name template errors which I monitor.

As I think about this, it occurs to me that {{ISO 639 name}} or its module replacement might not be the best fit for this template. This template already uses {{lang}} which uses Module:Lang. That module has support for IETF language tags which Module ISO 639 name does not (IETF tags are not ISO 639 codes) and has support for those non-standard names that en.wiki has determined to be preferable to the names defined in the ISO and IANA standards.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:18, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

More than a day later, Category:ISO 639 name template errors has accumulated an additional 180ish articles which all use {{native name}} with an ietf tag. So, following up on my comment that Module:lang might be a better fit for this template, I tweaked Module:lang/sandbox and have replaced the calls to Module:ISO 639 name with calls into Module:lang/sandbox. The results being positive, I shall update the live module and this template.

Further, this change would remove the need for this template to support |script=.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:35, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Done and switched to the live lang module. I have deprecated |script= in the documentation and will hunt about to fix its uses before removing support from the template.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:26, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

requested change

See Talk:Alaska#Pacific Gulf Yupik. Currently, the Alaska article displays several native names using this template, with the code "ems" rendering as "Pacific Gulf Yupik." Except nobody calls it that, and we have no article by that name, the term redirects to the much more common term for it, the Alutiiq language. Looking at the template code, there is certainly no obvious way to change this, so I guess I'm asking if there is a non-obvious way, and if so, can we go ahead and make this change? Thanks. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:35, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

@Beeblebrox: it's in Module:Language/data/iana_languages (ctrl-f for "Pacific Gulf Yupik"). Not really sure on what the content thing is about, or what you wanmt to change it to, but you can just edit that to change it. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:36, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

That made me very nervous, but I've made the change, thanks! Beeblebrox (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

I guess I should ping in Trappist the monk to double check if there's not another way he prefers to set the "Preferred-Value" (docs indicate there may be another way, but at a skim it's not clear what that way is), so it doesn't get overriden on next update. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:50, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

done.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:26, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Multiple languages for the same name

In German ostruble, the infobox lists two languages that use the same name. Is it possible for this template to support multiple languages (like {{In lang}} does)? Gonnym (talk) 13:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I have, just yesterday, written {{native name list}} to combat a slightly different problem but it could work at German ostruble. So this:

{{lang|de|Ostrubel}} <span class="languageicon" style="font-size:81%;font-weight:normal;">([[German language|German]], [[Polish language|Polish]])</span><br/>{{lang|lt|ostrublis}} <span class="languageicon" style="font-size:81%;font-weight:normal;">([[Latvian language|Latvian]], [[Lithuanian language|Lithuanian]])</span><br/>{{native name|ru|острубль|italics=no}}

Ostrubel (German, Polish)
ostrublis (Latvian, Lithuanian)
острубль (Russian)

could be rewritten as:

{{native name list|tag1=de|name1=Ostrubel|parensize1=81%|tag2=pl|name2=Ostrubel|parensize2=81%|tag3=lt|name3=ostrublis|parensize3=81%|tag4=lv|name4=ostrublis|parensize4=81%|tag5=ru|name5=острубль}}

• Ostrubel (German)
• Ostrubel (Polish)
• ostrublis (Lithuanian)
• ostrublis (Latvian)
• острубль (Russian)

Like so many upon many 'lsts', the original list violates MOS:NOBREAKS (also MOS:FONTSIZE but I used the original 81% here for the purposes of comparison). {{native name list}} avoids the MOS:NOBREAKS error by creating an unordered plainlist.

I'm not sure that {{native name}} should accept multiple language tags for a single 'name'. But, I have wondered if {{native name list}} should support something akin to |extra= used at {{nihongo}}. I was considering the case of a list of names in an infobox where each name has its own reference (ignoring the fact that references really don't belong in infoboxen...) like this |extra1=<ref>...</ref>. So, for our example here we might write:

{{native name list|tag1=de|name1=Ostrubel|extra1= ({{lang|fn=name_from_tag|pl|link=yes}})}}

which (mimicked here) would give this:

Ostrubel (German) (Polish)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:30, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Added |postfixn= to {{native name list}}:

{{native name list|tag1=de|name1=Ostrubel|postfix1= ({{lang|fn=name_from_tag|pl|link=yes}})|tag2=lt|name2=ostrublis|postfix2= ({{lang|fn=name_from_tag|lv|link=yes}})|tag3=ru|name3=острубль}}

• Ostrubel (German) (Polish)
• ostrublis (Lithuanian) (Latvian)
• острубль (Russian)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:43, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Spacing between phrase and language name

When the phrase is in italics there's two spaces between it and the language, but when it's not there's only one. Could anybody look into it? 31.153.94.214 (talk) 19:16, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Right, apparently this is a conscious stylistic choice. Personally, I'd rather it was consistent. 31.153.94.214 (talk) 19:21, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: I'd like to bring this back up for discussion. Looking at Mount Baker, I see that

{{native name|nok|Kulshan}} → Kulshan (Nooksack)

and the two spaces between "Kulshan" and "(Nooksack)" look wrong to me. Can we remove one of them? The change to the Lua looks relatively simple (deleting lines 110-112). — hike395 (talk) 20:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

The module just mimics the older wikitext version of the template. The extra   was added at this edit without comment or, apparently, any discussion, by CsDix who is now no longer with us. The double   appears to be a crude way of making sure that the last letter of an italicized native name (particularly d, f, or l – letters with ascenders) doesn't lean into the opening bracket ( enclosing the language name. I don't see this as much of an issue (here Native name and Native language separated by a single  ):

• Native name ending with d (Native language)
• Native name ending with f (Native language)
• Native name ending with l (Native language)

Usually, this kind of kerning is needed on the other side of the bracket:

• (j lowercase letters with descenders
• lowercase letters with ascenders and many uppercase letters N)

So, I think it should be ok to delete lines 8, 67, 110–112, 160, and 195. At the same time we should tweak lines 140 and 228 to remove mention of |nbsp=. The template's documentation would also need to updated to remove mention of |nbsp=.

According to this search, |nbsp= is used in about 300 articles; and according to this search, about 5 articles use |nbspn=. All of those uses should be cleaned up.

Or, you can just tweak

• {{native name|nok|Kulshan}} → Kulshan (Nooksack)

to

• {{native name|nok|Kulshan|nbsp=omit}} → Kulshan (Nooksack)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:16, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Will remove |nbsp=, because I want it to look good on articles that I don't know about. — hike395 (talk) 14:22, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Ok. And use of the parameter in the wild? I have fixed the documentation for {{native name list}}.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Will clean up AWB, haven't gotten to it yet. — hike395 (talk) 20:46, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done — hike395 (talk) 05:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC)