Template talk:Infobox islands/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

image caption "sub" tags rendering problem

Could the  tags please be removed from the "image caption" entry? They have the effect of rendering the caption almost invisible when viewed with Internet Explorer 6.0.2900.xxx running on Windows XP 5.1.xxx. Thanks for considering it. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 00:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Was the intent to use <small></small> tags instead of the "sub" tags for the "image caption" entry? 67.86.73.252 (talk) 01:41, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I noticed that the Template:Taxobox uses its image_caption element with <small><div style="text-align:center">{{{image_caption|}}}</div></small> markup and it works well (captions are visible in articles that use it). I think it could be used in this template too. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 13:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The proposed edit was made yesterday and noone seems to have reverted it yet today. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 23:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Documentation out of sync

I've just used this template at Limasawa, Southern Leyte. I noticed that the documented country capital city parameter doesn't seem to work. It appears that the template and the template documentation need to be reconciled. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 12:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

You are correct. The documentation is (was) wrong. (I have edited the documentation, but I have not reviewed other parameters). 67.86.73.252 (talk) 23:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC). To get Manila to appear in the Limasawa, Southern Leyte article omit "city" and instead use just this:

| country capital = [[Manila]]

Made the change. Thanks. --Boracay Bill (talk) 01:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Help needed with "elevation" parameter

Would a knowledgable person have a look at {{Infobox Islands}} and see if he or she can figure out why the "elevation" parameter in the infobox, which makes use of the {{convert}} template, is producing expression errors on the infobox's documentation subpage? Thanks. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 06:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not producing errors on the subpage here - just producing them when the subpage is transcluded onto the article. Unsure what's going on, but it doesn't look like an issue with the template code itself. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

It may have something to do with all of the <includeonly></includeonly> tags in the template code itself. — Bellhalla (talk) 15:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I've created a sandbox for the template at Template:Infobox Islands/sandbox removing what appear to be many, many sets of <includeonly></includeonly> around pipe characters ("|") in the template code. Unfortunately, it does not fix the problem with the output from the transcluded documentation page. Spot tests of the modified template code appear to work properly, so it could be implemented in the template if desired to remove some of the unneeded(?) complexity of the current version. — Bellhalla (talk) 15:44, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, go ahead and deploy the simplified version of the template. (I wasn't the original creator; I just tweaked it a little yesterday.) It is odd, though, that the transclusion of the template is causing errors. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 18:49, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I don;t see that the current conditionals are particularly complex. Unfortunately, {{convert}} is complete voodoo, so there's likely some problem in there. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Since the transcluded template is just an example, I think I'll just remove the problematic "highest mount" and "elevation" parameters so that the error messages don't mar the documentation subpage. The template itself seems to work fine when transcluded into articles, even with {{convert}} templates – see "Pedra Branca, Singapore", for instance. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 07:37, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Locator map

Can someone please include a size parameter for the locator map? Some map images use prefabricated labels which are rendered unreadable by the default map size inside the template. De728631 (talk) 22:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean you want to be able to specify a larger size for the locator map? I've added a new parameter called "locator map size". See if that works. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 03:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that works just fine! Many thanks. De728631 (talk) 16:12, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Rank

Somebody just added "rank=22" to the infobox for Hispaniola. I didn't know what that meant. The meaning is not obvious. Is it the 22md largest island in the world? The 22nd most populated island in the Carri bean? It needs something else by way of explanation. Student7 (talk) 00:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

If you click on the link, it indicates that the rank is by area. The parameter is not documented; I will add something on the template description page later. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 02:54, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Flag icon

Why is there a flag icon in the template next to the country name. In what way does this not contravene WP:FLAG? Indeed, why is it needed at all if the country name is there? --Merbabu (talk) 06:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings either way, but which part of WP:MOSICON are you saying that the use of the flag contravenes? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 12:46, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Rettetast, I noticed you've removed occurrences of {{Flag}} from the template on the ground that its use in the template violates WP:MOSICON. As I asked earlier on, which part of that guideline does the use of {{Flag}} violate? In this case, the flag is not indicating the nationality of any person (which has been the cause of much abuse of flag icons). — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 14:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

To use a flag alongside the name of the country does not give any more information. Thus it is purely decorative. See MOS:ICONS#Help the reader rather than decorate. Rettetast (talk) 14:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I reverted my edit that came after your revert. I had not seen your revert at that point. Rettetast (talk) 14:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 15:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I have removed the flags. Rettetast (talk) 16:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

state or country

It would be useful if this template allowed for the use of the word "state" rather than country for situations where the country and state aren't always known by the same name. In particular, there is a running edit war on the "Taiwan" article as to whether the "country" should be listed as "Taiwan" or "Republic of China". On one hand, the current power over Taiwan is the Republic of China. On the other hand, the Republic of China is a state, not a country. The ROC has moved over time and no longer controls the same territory it started with. The "country" is more properly identified with Taiwan, but because "country" is also used in some places as the common name of disjoint states, this causes concern on the part of Chinese nationalists that we are implying Taiwan is not part of China (and Wikipedia takes no position on whether Taiwan is part of China).

I believe this edit war would largely end if we could say the "state" is the Republic of China rather than saying the "country" is the Republic of China. Readin (talk) 17:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

redundancy

Is it not redundant to provide for entry of length, width, area, elevation, etc. in both imperial and metric units? I suggest a change that only one type is requested for entry (i.e. metric), and the other one is calculated automatically by the infobox.--Ratzer (talk) 07:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Done. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 16:34, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Recently when editing Bintan Island I found it easier to use infobox settlement and found it more attractive in the article than the island infobox. Providing the parameters are replicated, is there any reason why this infobox couldn't be redirect to Template:Infobox settlement but named as Template:Infobox island and redirect? To me it would make sense to have consistency with the parameters and would also make adding maps and images more straightforward. Now I don't think that all geo templates should be merged (mountains, lakes and rivers have strong functions as individual infoboxes) but there are so many similarities in what is required I think this could feasibly be merged.

From what I can see it is only

Archipelago {{{archipelago}}}

Total islands {{{total islands}}}

Major islands

which would be needed to be added to infobox settlement. The other parameters already exist. The other information in the island template is really higgledy piggledy . I really think this is best merged. See Bintan Island for what I envisage. I know that many islands are uninhabited but an infobox island function in the article would work I think. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:35, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Good idea. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:53, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it will be a bit more complicated for islands claimed by multiple countries. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:11, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Couldn't it simply become Country/ies? If islands belong to multiple countries you list under "Countries" as opposed to Country? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 15:21, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Currently, each country has a group of fields associated with it, for example British Isles, where they list the largest city. There are more fields than this, but that is an example. I'm not saying that there isn't a way to merge these, but I am saying that it's not so trivial. I would think as a first step, we can try to make the syntax a bit more similar, which is what I have been working on for the past week or so. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:02, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The current layout is redundant. See Roosevelt Island. Why does it need to have location under both geography and country? Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 17:17, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, in that particular case it is definitely redundant. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:21, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Some other changes that are needed: The "Capital City" and "Largest City" fields are no good for the thousands of islands that don't have cities or even towns. I have just created an article using this infobox that proudly declares the "capital city" of Süderoog is a settlement of the same name with a "population" of 2! Can we also supplement the "Archipelago" field with a field called "Island group" or similar because I'm not sure all island groups are described as archipelagoes? The German infobox equivalent appears far more user friendly and attractive - see de:Süderoog. We could produce an English version of it. --Bermicourt (talk) 13:35, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Small areas

This infobox needs to accomodate hectares and acres, see Barlow Island. 0.0528 km² (0.0204 sq mi) is just a tad too absurd. Peter Horn User talk 22:54, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Currently, you can override this by using |area=, but I will see if I can add something soon. Until then, feel free to use |area=. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:07, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Peter Horn User talk 22:35, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

There are others like this, so I'll wait it out. Peter Horn User talk 22:46, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Native name field

I would like this changed, or an alternate provided, because the word "native" has negative connotations, well it has for us Maori here in New Zealand which makes it offensive. I realise tho, that the term is acceptable elsewhere. If you look at North Island you will see an example of how NZ pages are using a workaround to avoid the use of the term native Kahuroa (talk) 01:16, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

What are you proposing as an alternative? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:50, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe fields like "Alternative name" and "Alternative name link", which would produce something like Māori: Te Ika-a-Māori - like on the North Island page. Not sure how you'd handle the pipe to avoid the "language" bit appearing Kahuroa (talk) 01:59, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

In {{infobox settlement}}, there isn't any label on the second name, it just appears below the first name. The origin of the second name is then explained in the first line of the article, so labeling it is somewhat redundant. Perhaps this is the best way? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 04:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

That should work. See Auckland for how it's handled using Infobox Settlement for a New Zealand city with a Māori name Kahuroa (talk) 07:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I just removed the "native name" prefix from the field, and added the option to use "local name" instead. Let me know if you foresee a problem. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:16, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Much appreciated. Does the trick Kahuroa (talk) 02:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

By eliminating the "native name =" parameter (field) you may have created havoc where/when the template with that parameter is being used elsewere in the world. Something to consider. See Template talk:Infobox islands#Sobriquet / nickname below. Peter Horn User talk 19:09, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The parameter is still there, it just no longer displays the words "Native name:" before the native name. Whether that's creating havoc I don't know. Now that there is an alternative - local name - I don't care what happens with native name, because we don't have to use it. Maybe we should ask Plastikspork to revert the way "native name" displays to how it was, while leaving "local name" intact. Peter, could you give a bullet list of what you want changed, since this discussion is getting a bit messy. Here's what I want:

1. Ability to display the Māori name without having "Native name:" appended to it.
2. Ability to display as set out in the NZ conventions below.

That's it. Kahuroa (talk) 21:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Prince of Wales Island (Queensland) is just one case in point.

1. The template should be able to accomodate, i.e. display, either one or the other and the choice of use would be left to the contributor. I left a post on User talk:Plastikspork. Peter Horn User talk 21:53, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Sobriquet / nickname

Mokopuna Island

Nickname: the 'grandchild'
Geography
Length	200 m (700 ft)
Width	80 m (260 ft)

What happened to the link(s) to sobriquet or nickname? Peter Horn User talk 00:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I removed them when I removed the link to "native name" per the discussion above. I would support restoring them if we moved this field down like it is in {{Infobox settlement}}. What do you think? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

In Mokopuna Island there are both "| local name = Maori: Mokopuna" and "| nickname = the 'grandchild"", like in the

with some data removed to reduce the size here. It would be nice to see that link restored. There are some others like it. It would also be nice to have coordinates linked as is the case in template:Infobox mountain. Peter Horn User talk 23:14, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

For a bit of background, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (New Zealand) stipulates that "in the infobox of a geographical article, the usual name is given first, followed by the Māori name as follows:

English Name

Māori Name (Māori)

(Which also means I need to go and fix all the ones where I have done it this way: Māori: Māori Name, but that's not the point here). Maybe I could start a discussion among NZ Wikipedians about updating our convention so we don't use the seperate link to Māori language and have the infobox add the link via a field, but I can't say how it would turn out Kahuroa (talk) 08:29, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

That still leaves out that third parameter "| nickname = the 'grandchild"". Please remember as well that the template:infobox island and the template:infobox mountain are used for islands and mountains all over the world, and not just for the islands and mountains of New Zealand. Example

English Name

Haida Name (Haida)

for the Queen Charlotte Islands off the coast of British Columbia. This is not really the best example in that the Haida name is given prominence or precidence over the English name. Peter Horn User talk 17:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

A better example is Moresby Island where I finished inserting "| local name = Haida: Gwaii Haanas" into the infobox of that article. Peter Horn User talk 17:59, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I hadn't forgotten :) . Kahuroa (talk) 18:26, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I think we can find a suitable compromise. Let me know which of these options you like the best.

1. I have my bot run through all transclusions of this template, and add the linked native name: and sobriquet: prefixes to each box. Then, these can be removed on a case-by-case basis, if someone doesn't like the appearance.
2. I restore the functionality of |native name=, but also allow for the "native name:" prefix when |native name= is used. Optionally, I could have a "local name:" prefix when |local name= is used. I also restore the functionality of |nickname=, so that the sobriquet: prefix appears.

My rationale for removing the prefixes was that (1) it would potentially look silly if there were no prefix on the "native name", but there was a prefix on the "nickname", and (2) in other infoboxes, like Infobox settlement, no prefix is used. Just let me know what you think is best, and I will do it. I didn't mean to cause any problems. By the way, the bot option would go pretty quickly as well, and would be equally painless for me. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:26, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Okay, after reading the comments on my talk page, I have decided to restore the prior functionality, but added the option to use |local name= instead |native name= if one wants to remove the "native name:" prefix. Let me know if there are any further problems, and thanks for the feedback. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:42, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Nice work, thanks for your patience Plastikspork. I am happy with that Kahuroa (talk) 04:35, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

As Shakespeare might/would say "All is well that ends well". Peter Horn User talk 15:13, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

In Brisk Island the "| native name =" field, or parameter, still does not work. Peter Horn User talk 22:20, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Now fixed. You had an empty local name which suppressed the label Kahuroa (talk) 00:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Right. I will make this a bit more robust, using something like {{ifempty}}. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:25, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Deprecated parameters

Hi everyone, the template raises a flag when certain deprecated parameters are used. Pages red flagged are listed in category page Category:Infobox_islands_using_deprecated_parameters :

• area - use either |area_km2= |area_sqmi= |area_m2= |area_sqft=
• length - use either |length_km= |length_mi= |length_m= |length_ft=
• width - use either |width_km= |width_mi= |width_m= |width_ft=
• coastline - use either |coastline_km= |coastline_mi= |coastline_m= |coastline_ft=
• elevation - use either |elevation_m= |elevation_ft=
• density - use either |density_km2= |density_sqmi=
• country admin divisions title - when its value is country

I have cleaned all articles listed in this category (a few hundreds). I have difficulty with |width= where the value is an interval i.e. :

{{convert|20|-|40|km}}

Could someone explain how to retain the interval when switched to |width_km= (or |width_mi=,... ) or edit the template accordingly ?

Thanks Fti74 (talk) 18:22, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow. You have done an amazing job here. I am impressed! As far as the width ranges are concerned. I noticed this as well, and I believe there are a couple options: (1) handle it the same way elevation ranges are handled by {{Infobox settlement}}, and add "width min m", "width max m", ..., and then have each of these displayed as separate fields (2) handle it with "width min m", "width max m", ..., and then pass these as a range to {{convert}}. I think the first way is definitely easier to code, and we could make the other "width" field as "average width". What do you think? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 18:33, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the amazing job. Actually I wrote a bot for it, ran for most of the work. I have even discovered since that a bot must be on a bot account and that unregistered bots are blocked ;-) So my bot is currently on hold, waiting for the bot admin group to unleash it. For min, max, it's a good idea, provided we document it clearly. As for the code, the easier is usually the better.

Fti74 (talk) 21:17, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I have added "width min foo" and "width max foo", and updated the half-dozen transclusions. Thanks again for all your help. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:08, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Minimum elevation

I can find no way to add the minimum or coastline elevation. I notice that this template is used on a number of lake islands where this information might be valuable (e.g. Isle Royale and Manitoulin Island). Wilford Nusser (talk) 09:46, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Conversion

This template automatically converts units for length etc. without using Convert. So how or where can the significant figures for the conversion be set? For example, the infobox for Asinara currently includes the dimensions:

• Area 51.9 km2 (20.04 sq mi)
• Length 17.4 km (10.81 mi)

where clearly the precision of the converted dimension exceeds that of the original. Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Peninsulas

Hi, I was wondering if it is possible we use this template for peninsulas (i.e. Template:Infobox peninsulas redirects here)? Jɑυмe (xarrades) 19:42, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

sure, or redirect Template:Infobox peninsula. Frietjes (talk) 21:21, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Done. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 00:23, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Geobox

I have proposed that we delete {{geobox}}. That may effect this templates. You are invited to participate in the Geobox deletion dicussion. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Fix for Template:Location map

When the width of an image generated by {{Location map}} was adjusted for maps whose height is greater than their width, the image did not center in the infobox properly. This can be avoided by including |center= in the Location map template. When this option was used a map caption generated by |map caption= was out of place because of an extra <br /> generated by {{infobox}}. {{Location map}} generates a <div> block making the <br /> unnecessary. I'll add some documentation explaining how to use Location map in this template after I cleanup some articles. –droll [chat] 04:22, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

"Elevation" parameter: vertical datum?

I'm not sure if this is the best place to bring this up, but would it not be a good idea for "Elevation" to include what vertical datum it is based on? Wardog (talk) 10:35, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Can you explain? I don't have enough technical knowledge about the point you are making. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 15:28, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Goodness, I'd quite forgotten I'd asked this question before (and only came back now because I was going to ask it again!) Sorry about the incredible delay in answering! Anyway, a Datum_(geodesy) is a reference surface from which elevations are measured. This is usually what is refered to colloquialy as "sea level", but is defined as mean sea level at a specific place (and possibly time as well), because "mean sea level" varies from place to place and over time. For example, on the mainland of Great Britain, the vertical datum used is Ordnance Datum Newlyn, defined as mean sea level at Newlyn in Cornwall between 1915 and 1921. Neighbouring countries may use different vertical datums, which means the elevation of a point on the border may vary notably depending on which datum it is measured from. Wardog (talk) 10:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Fighting the parameters

I've spent just about the whole day trying to develop a proper infobox using a (fairly poor instance of) infobox:settlement. There were several problems, which took some spotting.

• even though some information has the same significance as :settlement, the parameters have different names. Some were subtle differences, which were much harder to spot.
• I'm a Third Normal Form fan, and have an aversion to entering the same information more than once. But I am unable to see how to utilise information in this box elsewhere on the page. In fact even within the box itself seemed difficult/impossible. For instance, as I pointed out above, the calculation for distance to horizon needs to be given the elevation. But I saw no way of actually using that information, and I had to enter it again.
• Population density was a bummer - for a start off it had a different name from :settlement, secondly it had no auto possibility, thirdly I didn't see how to utilise the values for population and area, so had to enter them again.
• the additional info parameter (which is called footnotes in :settlement) also didn't work nicely, i.e. didn't format like the other box info. Or maybe it was because I wanted to include several pieces of unrelated info. In the end I resorted to including html to make it how I wanted. A workround could be to include additional lines - additional info 1 thru additional info 10 or something.
• I think the web site info should appear last.

For my actual example, look at Bantayan Island

Johnmperry (talk) 13:19, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

the auto feature for density could certainly be added. if there are other additional fields or alternative parameter names, then please make specific suggestions. Frietjes (talk) 18:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding density, there is a clash of styles here. On the one hand you use /km² but for miles you use /sq mi. For consistency they should both use superscript 2 or both not. In fact it might really be preferable to use ^-2 in both cases. In addition, I hate the abbreviation mi and always use miles. Maybe I should take it up with the convert talk group.

The additional info element seems to have sorted itself automatically, or was there human intervention?

I still need a way of referencing fields both within the infobox and in the page generally.

You might consider adding an elements for time. This needs a UTC offset value, a Time zone field, a daylight saving time switch, and a Time there which would utilise all of those. Or perhaps build a separate infobox:time?

Johnmperry (talk) 04:41, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Distance to horizon

I would like to see an additional parameter, which can be automatically computed. According to Horizon#Distance_to_the_horizon
distance in km is approx. 3.57*(square root of elevation in metres)
distance in miles is approx. 1.22*(square root of elevation in feet)
approximation is close enough for me.

btw One nautical mile is exactly 1.852 km (by definition).

Johnmperry (talk) 08:57, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

is there a source for the distance to horizon for each island? Frietjes (talk) 18:52, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

It can be computed as shown above, provided there is an entry for elevation. Johnmperry (talk) 04:48, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Sea parameter

Could someone please add the parameter "Sea", so that we can display which sea the island is in. In some cases that is much more useful than "country" especially if the island is in the middle of the ocean or a country has several coastlines on different seas. --Bermicourt (talk) 00:57, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello, doesn't anyone think it's useful to name the sea in which an island is found? --Bermicourt (talk) 06:47, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

how about something like |adjacent water bodies=, which would cover lakes, seas, and oceans? or suggest a better name? Frietjes (talk) 19:32, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps just "waterbody" to keep it simple? --Bermicourt (talk) 08:40, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

|waterbody= it is. we should add this near the "location" field? Frietjes (talk) 18:17, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Sounds sensible. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:34, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking about something to do with tides - next high and low tide. Would this be a sensible place to do it, bearing in mind that for anything but very small islands the tide timetable is not constant all round the coast? Or should it be in infobox:settlement? In any case, it would need to be a computed field, which suggests perhaps geobox. As far as I can tell, it's some complicated function of coordinates, and time, but also needs a datum location. Take a look here http://www.tides4fishing.com/as/philippines/bantayan-bantayan-island

I don't know enough about the internal mechanisms of wiki to take this further. Johnmperry (talk) 09:20, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

It would be easy if the template were unlocked, but I suspect we need an admin to unlock it, then a template wizard to amend it. Doesn't anyone here have those permissions and skills?? --Bermicourt (talk) 19:41, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I can make any of these edits, I just need to know (1) where to place the field, (2) the label to assign to the field, and (3) the parameter used to invoke the field. Frietjes (talk) 23:47, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Coordinates ... of what?

An island is two-dimensional. Coordinates have no dimensions at all, and refer to a single point. WHich single point should coordinates here take? Am I wrong to use nominal southwest corner? Or should it be some arbitrary position on the land mass? John of Cromer in Philippines (talk) mytime= Wed 20:53, wikitime= 12:53, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

in {{infobox settlement}} there is an option to specify |coor_pinpoint= which is the location specified by the coordinates. here, I see the primary purpose of the coordinates is to be able to find the island on a map. if this is correct, then we should probably not be overly precise with the coordinates, and make sure that the scale is set so that the link to the maps will show the entire island. so, don't use overly precise coordinates and make sure the map link correct frames the island. hence, it is the 'scale' parameter that makes the coordinates more than just a point, but a region around a point. Frietjes (talk) 16:34, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Surely it should be somewhere close to the centre of the island sufficient to find it on a map, as Frietjes suggests. It might be helpful to provide guidelines e.g. if the island is less than xxx metres in size the coords should be given to the nearest 10 seconds or whatever, etc. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:40, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Need support for more countries

Right now, the template appears to be able to handle up to seven countries ("country", followed by "country 1" through "country 6"). In most cases, this would probably be more than enough — but the article on the Balkans is using this template (via its alias {{Infobox peninsulas}}) and is currently trying to list at least eight countries, and the template just won't do this (the countries after #6 are simply ignored).

I'm willing to try to expand the template to handle more countries, but if someone who is more skilled than I am in working with templates would like to try first, by all means go ahead. Thanks. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 18:47, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

updated. Frietjes (talk) 20:11, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 20:41, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Adding "pushpin" option to template?

Hi all, I recently noticed a difference between Template:infobox settlement and Template:infobox islands, namely that "settlement" has the option to add a "pushpin" (red dot), to help locate visually a point on a map; but "islands" doesn't have this. Does someone here know whether this could be added to the template? Let me copy here the query I recently made to 'Gruesome Gary' on his talk page, because it includes a handful of examples:

Thanks for all your recent edits on the various islands of Vanuatu, they're very useful. I noticed that you've used alternatively two different templates for infobox: "islands" (example for Lo) and "settlement" (example for Tegua), even for very similar entries – Lo and Tegua are two neighbouring islands, so could have been treated the same. One big difference seems to be that "infobox settlement" comes with a 'pushpin' (=a red dot on a map) which makes it very easy to spot the location of an island on a map (e.g. Tegua); whereas "infobox islands" only allows for a very general map, where locating an island can be quite difficult for readers who don't know the country well (it's particularly difficult for Hiw, Lo, Merelava, Ureparapara or even Gaua, which are not named on the map…). Plus the fact that this map is outdated, cf. the use of "New Hebrides" for Vanuatu, and of "Santa Maria" instead of Gaua, both of which date back several decades. I thought I'd encourage you to use the "settlement" infobox, as it seems to be doing a better job.

Do you think it would be feasible to convert the infobox "island" into "settlement", at least for the smaller islands? Or do you know a way to add the pushpin option to the infobox-islands template? (I'm not savvy enough to do it myself). Thanks in advance, keep up the good job. — Womtelo (talk) 11:08, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Neither Gary nor myself know exactly how to change the infobox template, so I thought I'd ask around on this talk page. Thanks, — Womtelo (talk) 09:52, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

yes, I could add a pushpin map feature to this template, as an alternative to the |locator map=, if there are no objections. Frietjes (talk) 18:10, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

How about the time zone?

As "utc_offset" in template:infobox settlement. --Jerome Potts (talk) 22:20, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Jerome Charles Potts, added. Frietjes (talk) 16:47, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

native_name_lang

Please could someone add a |native_name_lang= parameter, as used in most other infoboxes with a |native_name= parameter? The usual code is:

<code>
{{#if:{{{native_name|}}}|<span class="nickname" {{#if:{{{native_name_lang|}}}|lang="{{{native_name_lang}}}}}">{{{native_name}}}</span>}}
</code>

but in this case we also need to take account of |native name link=. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:25, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Resolved

Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:27, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

"city" field too restrictive/inapt

See Talk:McMillan Island, where "largest city" is for McMillan Island Indian Reserve No. 6, which is not a city. That field is not suitable named for non-cities of all kinds, be they incorporated or unincorporated: villages, towns, district municipalities and others; and some islands within cities are not populated so no "largest anything" either.Skookum1 (talk) 14:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Already fixed; I changed the label some days ago, for this reason, to "Largest settlement". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:25, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

"country 2 largest city", "country 3 largest city", etc still show "Largest city". Possibly a better option would be to have to default to "settlement", however have another field called "country largest settlement type", "country 2 largest settlement type", etc, which would allow editors to change "settlement" to "city", "town", "village", etc. I think template:infobox country has this option. Rob984 (talk) 13:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Discovery

Should a parameter related to the date of discovery of the island be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Auguel (talk • contribs) 18:31, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of maintenance Category:Pages using deprecated coordinates format

A maintenance category used for this template, Category:Pages using deprecated coordinates format, is being considered for deletion here. Your input is requested.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:34, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Nautical miles?

Is there a way to provide length and width in nautical miles? The USGS gazetteer for Antarctica uses nautical miles instead of miles; it would be convenient to use these without manual conversion as this is the source of the majority of our articles on Antarctica. {{convert}} has an 'nmi' argument to deal with this. Thanks, --Lemnaminor (talk) 10:21, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Lemnaminor, use |length={{convert|XX|nmi|...}} Frietjes (talk) 15:18, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Coordinates format

Tracking has been added per Help:Coordinates in infoboxes. Frietjes (talk) 17:27, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Error message and tracking category for unsupported parameters

I have added error tracking for unsupported parameters to this template. See Category:Pages using infobox islands with unknown parameters. A red error message appears when you Preview the article, between the edit screen and the rendered preview. In the category, the articles are sorted by the name of the parameter that is unsupported.

I have added this error-checking to a number of heavily used infoboxes, and it usually goes smoothly, highlighting errors that improve the articles that end up in the category. Every once in a while, parameters are missed or something goes wrong. If that happens, don't panic, just post here and I will be happy to fix it. Revert the change if you feel that you must.

If I have made any mistakes in coding, or if template changes are desired, please let me know. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:42, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Help...

Can someone help me understand what the story is with {{#if:{{both|{{{coordinates wikidata|{{{coordinates_wikidata|{{{wikidata|}}}}}}}}} | {{#property:P625}}}}|[[Category:Infobox islands using deprecated parameters|µ {{PAGENAME}}]]}}. I'm not understanding how/why these last 8 pages are being added to Category:Infobox islands using deprecated parameters. What needs to be done to fix them? --Zackmann08 (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 18:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Long technical discussion here. I can edit templates, but this wikidata stuff is beyond me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:26, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

So seems like that code can just be removed. It isn't actually deprecated. --Zackmann08 (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:38, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

That would be my recommendation if it were up to me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:00, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Template noinclude exposed in article.

A </noinclude> tag is showing up on Utøya, at the bottom of the template box, I can't figure out why. Can someone please look and fix it? 82.26.59.181 (talk) 16:34, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Already done Resolved elsewhere, see Special:Diff/756348970. --Zackmann08 (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 17:20, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

RfC on use of multiple levels of maps in {{Infobox islands}}

This RfC at Talk:Gråen#RfC on multiple maps may be of general interest and have implications for other articles. The question is whether the feature to display multiple levels of maps (in this case for Scania, Sweden and Europe) should be used in the {{Infobox islands}} template to convey the location of an island. Thanks. —DIYeditor (talk) 21:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Template name

Shouldn't this template be named Template:Infobox island (singular form), similar to all other infoboxes in Category:Geography infobox templates? The template's 6,000+ transclusions would not be affected as long as we retain this title and all subpages as redirects, and there would be just a bit of post-move cleanup required, so I do not see any drawbacks to renaming this template. Any concerns or objections? Is there something else I'm missing? Thanks, -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 05:03, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support Yes that would definitely be the correct/canonical name. As long as it doesn't make a mess of things this would be a sensible change. —DIYeditor (talk) 22:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Can we clean up these params?

I'm happy to spearhead this, but any objections to getting all these params to follow the underscore convention? I.E. {{{area km2}}} → {{{area_km2}}} for example. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 06:44, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes and Jonesey95: thoughts on this? --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing})`

Zackmann08, see here, looks like the opposite was proposed back in 2010. but, I agree, it seems like underscores are more popular now. Frietjes (talk) 16:29, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Yea I feel like the underscores have definitely taken over. What is the best way forward here? Would you like me to mock-up a deprecation syntax in the sandbox? Do you want to do it yourself? I'm more than happy to fix the transclusions once we have a deprecation category. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 16:39, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: also, while we are at this, I'm wondering if there aren't better params we could use? {{{country 1 admin divisions title}}} is a mouthful... Let me know if you want me to start the work of deprecating stuff. I don't want to conflict with your edits. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 17:28, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

User:Zackmann08, I am finished messing around with the sandbox. I removed the _ between country and number, but otherwise, I just added _ versions of all the spaced parameters. I thought there was a bot approved for doing this for infoboxes, but the closest that I could find was one for {{infobox river}} and a denied request for Fti74Bot. in any event, given that this is going to change every page using this infobox, it would be good to make a formal bot request and make sure there are no objections to renaming all the parameters (@Plastikspork:). Frietjes (talk) 18:22, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: bravo! I filed a WP:BRFA. Do you want to wait for the BRFA to be approved before adding support for these new parameters? --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 20:47, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

User:Zackmann08, I added support for the _ parameters. Frietjes (talk) 14:05, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: what do you think about implementing Module:Unsubst-infobox for this? I'm thinking about how helpful it has been with {{Infobox album}}. Might be the quickest and easiest way to get these parameters dealt with. Thoughts? Note this doesn't preclude the BRFA I have in progress. I agree that discussion still needs to take place. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 20:45, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Zackmann08, it's my understanding that most substitution-based parameter-renaming methods erase comments. one nice thing about the {{infobox river}} task was that SporkBot preserved the comments and any indentation convention. Frietjes (talk) 12:54, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: very good point. What task are you referring to with SportBot? --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 16:35, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

NVM. Found it. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 16:36, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

country_1, country_2, etc. fields aren't being transcluded

See British Isles, only one country is shown under "Administration". Rob984 (talk) 11:51, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@User:Zackmann08 probably related to your recent edit. Rob984 (talk) 11:52, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Rob984: that's because |country_1= is not a valid parameter. It should be |country1=. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 18:57, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Zackmann08, why were these removed before Category:Pages using infobox islands with unknown parameters was empty? Frietjes (talk) 19:00, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: from what I can tell, |country_1= was never supported. I just double checked the diff. The change was from |country 1= to |country1=. So the focus was on the category populated by deprecated parameters (Category:Articles using infobox islands with deprecated params). --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:04, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Zackmann08, checking this diff your bot failed to properly convert all the "country_#" parameters. Frietjes (talk) 19:08, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Zackmann08, it was your bot that changed |country 1= to |country_1= instead of |country1=. Frietjes (talk) 19:11, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Frietjes: ugh. Son of a gun. So the template documentation doesn't match the template code... The documentation says to use |country_1= which is what I wrote the bot to do. Ok so first and foremost gotta get the working. Suggestions? My guess is that all transclusions use the |country_1= format but obviously need to check that. Either way I think the best solution is to fix the template first, deal with transclusions later... I don't want to run into edit conflicts so do you want to do it or shall I? I broke this so I want to take responsibility here... --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Rob984: P.S. thank you for bringing this to my attention. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

User:Zackmann08, the solution is to fix the articles that your bot broke by changing |country_1*= to |country1*=. Frietjes (talk) 19:16, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

OK. Sorry. My point was that the opposite might be faster. Not looking for the easy way out, just trying to restore the info as quickly as possible. NVM. --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:19, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Rob984:  Fixed thanks again for catching that. I'm stepping out for lunch but if you see any other issues, please ping me directly and I'll make sure they get resolved. Frietjes sorry for the issue. :-( --Zackmann (^{Talk to me}/_{What I been doing}) 19:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

New parameter for time of submergence

There are about a hundred articles in Category:Former islands and for all of them it's quite an important bit of information when they got submerged or eroded away. Wouldn't it make sense to add this as a parameter to the infobox? Conversely, time of emergence (whenever known) would also be relevant. Any thoughts? – Uanfala (talk) 12:11, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 10 October 2019

Please change template call {{ifempty}} to {{if empty}} to avoid the redirect. The call to that template is transcluded in over 7,400 articles through being called in this template, so that unnecessary redirect has to be followed every time one of those articles is viewed. Colonies Chris (talk) 16:22, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. For further discussion see User talk:Colonies Chris. --Trialpears (talk) 16:27, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

• Trialpears, is there any reason why you believe such an edit requires consensus? As far as I can see, it is obviously needed, and I see no justification for the status quo: {{if empty}} has been at its present title for over five years, and it's not that a redirect like {{ifempty}} has any potential to become a separate template one day. – Uanfala (talk) 16:31, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

  Uanfala, it's not the edit per say but the editors tendency to do them at a large scale. They have repeatedly been condemned for this behavior and I find it highly inappropriate to request it being done anyways. I've suggested a better way to get these edits implemented on their talk page. --Trialpears (talk) 16:39, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 10 March 2020: Pop. density

Greetings and felicitations. I can't figure out exactly what the problem is, but the field "Pop. density" renders its output with an unnecessary space before the "/[unit]"—see the documentation. Would someone please be so kind as to eliminate this space? —DocWatson42 (talk) 21:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC) DocWatson42 (talk) 21:33, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:53, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Thank you. ^_^ —DocWatson42 (talk) 09:08, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Title

I think the current title is inconsistent with other titles like "Template:Infobox country" or "Template:Infobox settlement". I think it should be "Template:Infobox island"--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 08:46, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Parameter conflict

Documentation says use |image_name=. |image= also works, but if blank it clobbers the |image_name=. Frietjes MB 15:24, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

User:MB, I have unnested them, but we probably should have a "clobbered" parameters category for other conflicts. Frietjes (talk) 16:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Frietjes, OK. If you choose to do that, I'll watch out for it to help in the cleanup. MB 16:41, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Map caption

Hi Frietjes! Thanks for adding the latest conflicting parameter tracking. Looking over the tracking category, I think the map_caption and pushpin_map_caption needs some work. The problem is that the infobox re-uses the map_caption parameter in multiple places. Probably the best thing to do would be to check for places that are using the map_caption for the pushpin_map_caption and fix those to avoid the possibility of having the same caption twice? Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 14:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Frietjes, I'm not clear on this one. Long Island is using undocumented |map_image= for a static map (the doc says |image_map=). The conflicting para check flags |map_caption= and |pushpin_map_caption=. Do we need |image_map_caption= to be able to provide a caption for the static image? Otherwise, I don't see how to fix this. MB 19:48, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

MB, that entire section is a mess. for now, I removed the check. I think we need to replace any generic map_ used for location maps with pushpin_ to avoid confusion. but, that will require some tracking. Frietjes (talk) 22:40, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Let me know if you need my help. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:22, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Frietjes, I think everything is cleaned-up. I updated the documentation also. Could you do one more minor thing, restrict Category:Pages using infobox islands with unknown parameters to article-space only. Thanks. MB 20:15, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Plastikspork, I'm not sure if Frietjes ever did the last thing above, but I see that Category:Pages using infobox islands with an ambiguous map caption is the same way. Could you make sure all tracking categories only include articles. Thanks, MB 23:41, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

@MB and Frietjes: Sure, although I would think that we no longer need this tracking since it was just to avoid any surprises when the parameter functionality was switched? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:25, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Plastikspork, so long as we still support |map_caption= for providing the caption in two different places there could be a surprise. but, it looks like the code will only use the value once, so I suppose we could remove the tracking if someone really wants to remove it. Frietjes (talk) 15:14, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Clarify that native_name_link shouldn't include square brackets

I suggest changing

native_name_link = link to the article about the language used for the native name.

to

native_name_link = name of the article about the language used for the native name (without surrounding <code>[[]]</code>).

because I just fixed a couple articles where this was causing issues. Akeosnhaoe (talk) 04:52, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Multiple native names

The article for Ottawa Islands lists two native names, like this: Arviliit or Arqvilliit. Is there a way to not bold the "or" because it's not part of a name? Akeosnhaoe (talk) 04:55, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

"Native name" parameter issue - unclear to reader what the language is

I think ideally, this parameter should be

[Language]: [name] not Native name: [name]

Right now, the parameter has two issues 1. links should match the article linked to. "Native name" does not link to an article on "native names" but instead could link to any number of different languages (see MOS:EASTEREGG) and 2. If there are multiple names for an island (e.g. Snake Island (Black Sea)) it's not obvious which language is being indicated.

Fredlesaltique (talk) 03:00, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Artificial islands?

I notice that there are no parameters available in this template for information about an artificial island, like its date of construction, and what entity built it. I'm not a big "infoboxes" guy, so I will ping the two people I see in the template's history as being the most involved with it. @Izno: @Frietjes: what do you think? jp×g 21:01, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

User:JPxG, we could probably add some options. I note that examples of articles could be found in Category:Artificial islands by country. most of these are using this template, but some are using {{Infobox landform}}, {{Infobox park}}, ... Frietjes (talk) 21:07, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

I've noticed that {{infobox islands}} isn't very widely used, in general (I had an editing spree last year of adding it to most of the islands in {{Islands of Suisun Bay and the Sacramento–San Joaquin River delta}}). Maybe we can change that :)

As for what the parameters would be, I am envisioning something like construction_in = and built_by = , as well as expanded_in (as there are many islands, like Treasure Island or Stony Island, which are mostly composed of fill dirt but did originally exist as islands or shoals prior to human intervention). Perhaps, if we are feeling fancy, construction_started = and construction_ended = would be good as well (since the process tends to be fairly long). jp×g 21:14, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

No anthem

Someone added |anthem= (which doesn't exist in this template) to Mallorca. This template does have a lot of the country administrative fields that are in IB Country, but not anthem. This template says it can be embedded, but I'm not sure how that is used. IB country does not support embedding. If Mallorca were using IB country, it could have its anthem in the IB. But it were switched to use that IB, then it couldn't use 3-4 island specific parameters. Is there a easy solution? MB 01:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Frietjes, any suggestions? I could just anthem from this article since its not a valid field for the infobox, but that doesn't seem quite right since it does work for countries. MB 02:09, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

User:MB, I would use the "additional info" section. Frietjes (talk) 16:31, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

"Adjacent bodies . . ."

The parameter naming of Adjacent bodies of water is bulky and usually wraps awkwardly to a second line when it is used. Would it be enough to rename this as simply Adjacent to (preferably with a nowrap on it)? Farolif (talk) 19:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:41, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Exclusive Economic Zone

Could we please add "Exclusive Economic Zone" as a parameter (the field is already in {{Infobox place geography}})? It should probably be specified in km2 and set to automatically covert to provide square miles too. Thanks, Carter (Tcr25) (talk) 16:23, 10 April 2023 (UTC)