Template talk:Infobox Swiss town

Talk

To discuss Template talk:Infobox Swiss town, type after this line. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 17:19, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Edit request

Convert into redirect to Template:Infobox Switzerland municipality TerraCyprus (talk) 22:57, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

This seems safe to do. Only thing I'd note is that there is Category:Pages using infobox Swiss town with lat_NS or long_EW here. I suppose those two are deprecated params. May want to request a PrimeBOT run to remove those, but that can be done post-redirect too. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:03, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, I'm completely confused by the editing history on this template. @Frietjes and Anthony Appleyard:, is above request okay? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:05, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

@ProcrastinatingReader and Frietjes: the explanation is at User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Template:Infobox Switzerland municipality. I told the admin several times precisely what needs to be done, but each time a new variation of edits comes up. TerraCyprus (talk) 23:19, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

• @ProcrastinatingReader, Frietjes, and TerraCyprus: Fur further discussion / information, see the end of section User talk:Anthony_Appleyard#Complaint. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 00:08, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

  @Anthony Appleyard and TerraCyprus: Okay, the move log and redirects created/not created/overwritten is confusing me a bit. I think I follow what has happened here, but let's just break this down a bit, so we're all on the same page :D

  As far as I can see we have at least three total affected templates in these moves. Template:Infobox Swiss municipality, Template:Infobox Switzerland municipality and Template:Infobox Swiss town. Are there any others? What was the original template name? Am I correct in thinking that Template:Infobox Swiss town was originally a redirect to that template name? Where is the old Template:Infobox Swiss town now (this one has no history except post-move)? Is it Template:Infobox Town CH? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 00:46, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@ProcrastinatingReader: what is so difficult? Make {{Infobox Swiss town}} into a redirect to Template:Infobox Switzerland municipality? TerraCyprus (talk) 00:49, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@TerraCyprus I'm not going to touch a template that has been affected by a series of moves and is now a wrapper for some reason, without understanding what has happened here and what this template is meant to be. Yes, this seems like a direct redirect candidate currently, but I don't have the history on what's happened here, and I don't know if any other changes are needed here. @Frietjes is an experienced template editor and chose not to redirect seemingly. So, all in all, I'd like to understand what happened here if I'm going to be the one making an edit on this. I won't make an edit I have no confidence in. So answers to the questions above appreciated. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 00:51, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@ProcrastinatingReader:, what are you talking about? Thousands of articles include templates via redirects. Just Anthony didn't implement it correctly and the redirect is template-protected so the double-redirect fixer bot(s) couldn't fix. Just make it a redirect. I'm not going to touch a template that has been affected by a series of moves - no, this template was never moved. It was only created yesterday by Anthony in a further iteration of not implementing what was requested at his talk page. TerraCyprus (talk) 00:57, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm already aware, from EmausBot's contrib history, that most of the issues were double redirect corrections (since the template had so many dependencies). I'm aware how templates redirects work. What I'm not sure is where the original Template:Infobox Swiss town is. Eh, I'll just dig the histories, I guess... ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:02, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

While I'm here, are there any other double redirects to sort out? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:03, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@ProcrastinatingReader: /map should be fixed too. Here are all pages with that Swiss town/ as a base: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Infobox+Swiss+town%2F&namespace=10 TerraCyprus (talk) 01:09, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@TerraCyprus double-checking it for continued compatibility... What is up with the param "popofyear" in this template? This, Template:Infobox Swiss town, is doing processing on the param before sending it to Template:Infobox Switzerland municipality. But that template doesn't accept this param? But a lot of usages are using it? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@ProcrastinatingReader: if that code is of any value it should be added to where the real infobox is. The history of that box doesn't show any addition of that code. So maybe there was a reason to not have that code. If addition is wanted it should be discussed at the page of the real infobox. TerraCyprus (talk) 01:18, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@TerraCyprus and ProcrastinatingReader: I thanked Frietjes for his work on Template:Infobox Swiss town. For more information, read the second half of the discussion section User talk:Anthony Appleyard#Complaint. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:53, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

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 Done ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:37, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

This request is done, but the target template needs some work. For example: the population handling w.r.t. Wikidata is totally bust. It is forcing Zürich to show 2018 years when 2020 ones are being explicitly provided on the page on enwiki (see source). |popofyear= is widely used as a year param, but it's not even supported by the template itself it seems? Looks like only the month/year combo param is. Parameter deprecation runs would also be helpful (by bot); looks like a few editors attempted some by hand yesterday. Lots of very old deprecated params here causing confusion it looks like.

Regarding the move, I think this is a good example of double redirects in template-space causing wiki-wide issues. We rely too much on the bots to clean up. Primefac could we maybe look into granting template-editor permissions to one of the double redirect bots, either Xqbot or EmausBot? This error is, to be fair, not too uncommon to make, and it's usually easy to notice/fix on single small templates, but in this case it was way too well disguised through multiple subtemplates, moves and subsequent wrapperification. Both bot operators are kinda inactive, so I doubt they'll file a botreq to do it, but I imagine the bots are monitoring template namespace so would update if they had perms to do it? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:49, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't see any issue with granting TE to either (or both) of the double-redirect-fixing bots; it's happened to me more times than I care to admit, because I often forget that the bots probably can't edit the new redir! For the sake of transparency, though, please make sure that the bots in question can edit the template space (I vaguely recall one of them only looks at NS0) and post at BOTN for "official" approval. Primefac (talk) 00:10, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Bots should not have rights their operators do not. Niether Emaus nor Xqt is a template editor. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:19, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

My bot has page mover and I don't have it. When a bot needed EFH, they were granted it pretty simply (with it being optional if the operator also has it), and this was a different crat approving. So I don't think that's too abnormal. I don't think either of those editors is unqualified to be template editor, and certainly don't think these long-standing local and global bots will be abusing it. FWIW, I wasn't suggesting "let's grant it immediately!" but rather if we could begin the process for granting it / check on its feasibility. I'm aware granting rights outside of an explicit operator request is not standard (hence the ping to Primefac for thoughts), but we have a real issue here that needs solving. I'll take this to BOTN per Primefac's advice, as that's probably more appropriate for this convo. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 01:11, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@ProcrastinatingReader:The use of Wikidata for population and area has been an issue since it was unilaterally changed a couple years ago. The template used to use Template:Swiss populations which pulled population from a local en wiki list which I maintained and updated. In the articles, the population data is from that template, rather than Wikidata. There were a lot of technical issues with pulling wikidata for articles that have a title different than the article name in Wikidata. That, plus the ease of vandalism and the lack of eyes on Wikidata made transitioning the Swiss populations template not make sense. It would be great if we could get the infobox template to agree with the template in the article.

@Tobyc75: FYI I've moved this discussion to Template_talk:Infobox_Switzerland_municipality#Population_handling to continue. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 16:36, 2 November 2020 (UTC)