Template talk:IPA pulmonic consonants

Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2019

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Add "ʈɻ̊˔" and "ɖɻ˔" to "Retroflex non-sibilant fricatives" AquaticCitrus2035 (talk) 02:34, 4 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

  Not done. We only list sounds about which articles exist. Nardog (talk) 03:57, 4 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

What criteria are used for deciding which symbols not on the official chart appear here? They have to have their own distinct articles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthewmorrone1 (talkcontribs) 18:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Template:IPA_pulmonic_consonants/table

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Cite literature? These consonants don't appear on the chart, and students have been more confused by a dot below than a ring on top. The chart does say a ring on top means the same thing, but does not have a combining dot below. Matthewmorrone1 (talk) 18:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2021

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Add "t̪" and "d̪" to "dental plosives" QuakDucc (talk) 16:35, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: We only list sounds about which articles exist. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:01, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

extIPA

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extIPA should be added — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.132.165 (talk) 21:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 8 June 2022

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Request: change Post­alveolar to Palato­alveolar

Reason: Postalveolar consonant as the heading is inaccurate, since this category also includes Retroflex consonants and Alveolo-palatal consonants that are shown in the following two columns. Gu0427 (talk) 02:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: Postalveolar is the term used by the International Phonetic Association to define ⟨ʃ, ʒ⟩. See also IPA Principles. Nardog (talk) 04:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 9 July 2022

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Add voiceless epiglottal affricate (ʡʜ) to the chart on the on the left side of the box containing ʡʢ. SlimyGecko7 (talk) 15:16, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

  Done. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 17:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 18 July 2022

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Add the voiced velar tap ([ɡ̆]) to the box right beneath the approximant ([ɰ]). Doctor Zoath (talk) 22:10, 18 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: see the sandbox to find that since [ɡ̆] is not an IPA symbol, the link is to the Extra-shortness article about the breve, rather than to the correct article, Voiced velar tap. Placing the [ɡ̆] in the table with an incorrect link would be confusing to readers. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 00:38, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
The same usage of the extra-short diacritic over stops is used for the uvular and pharyngeal taps / flaps so should they be removed for having the wrong link? The extra-shortness article also says that the diacritic is sometimes used for any flap consonants without IPA symbols because a flap is in effect a very brief stop. And above in an earlier thread in 2019, it says “We only list sounds about which articles exist.” Based on the chart currently in use, it doesn’t seem like that has changed. SlimyGecko7 (talk) 17:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
So you think the ɡ̆ symbol for voiced velar tap should be included in the table even though it is not an IPA symbol and therefore links to the extra-shortness article instead of the "voiced velar tap" article? And just so it's mentioned, because this is not an IPA symbol, there is no audio in the {{IPA soundbox/cell}} template for this sound. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 17:32, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
If you checked some of the other sounds listed on the chart, you would notice many of these “non-IPA symbols” included in the chart, e.g. the previously mentioned uvular tap / flap, have no audio in their articles. Also, the article tap and flap consonants mentions the sound in a chart as the only representation of a velar central oral tap / flap, a sound reported in Dàgáárè (source: https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005110/current.pdf?_s=XH49PPWYJlnZ9LED) and the Kamviri dialect as an intervocalic allophone of [g]. This same article states “If other flaps are found, the breve diacritic could be used to represent them, but would more properly be combined with the symbol for the corresponding voiced stop. A palatal or uvular tap or flap, which unlike a velar tap is believed to be articulatorily possible, could be represented this way (by *[ɟ̆, ɢ̆~ʀ̆]).” However as it states, a velar tap is believed to be articulatorily impossible. But the ğ symbol does follow what it says, the breve diacritic (for extra-short) would most properly be combined with the symbol for the corresponding voiced stop ([g], the voiced velar stop) However, the IPA suggests usage of the breve over trills, but not even some of the other taps / flaps in the chart follow that, instead using a breve over a stop. SlimyGecko7 (talk) 19:08, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
That's not the reason it didn't link to the article. It simply wasn't added to Module:IPA symbol/data after the article was created. Nardog (talk) 21:44, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
  Done. It's marked impossible on the IPA chart, but it makes sense for this template, which is for navigation, to include it as long as the article about it exists. Nardog (talk) 20:42, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
Thank you, Nardog! Good to have someone here who knows much more than I do about this. I searched a long time unsuccessfully for a way to get the IPA link template to link to the correct article about the vvt. And I don't know enough Lua to be able to do what you did in the data module. Definitely above my pay grade. Thanks again! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 21:48, 29 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
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The phonemes tɭ̊˔ and dɭ˔ appear to be linked to the incorrect articles, respectively going to Voiceless and Relative articulation#Raised_and_lowered instead of the expected Voiceless retroflex lateral affricate and Voiced retroflex lateral affricate. There may be other wrong links. Boershies (talk) 15:18, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Fixed. Nardog (talk) 15:44, 11 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Add voiceless retroflex non-sibilant fricative

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The voiceless retroflex non-sibilant fricative has been found to occur in Ormuri, so it would be good to add it to the table. Theknightwho (talk) 19:20, 19 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

  Done User:GKFXtalk 00:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Missing table borders?

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Any particular reason there aren't borders below some of the cells, like β or ð? TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Because while ⟨β, ð, ʁ⟩ etc. canonically represent fricatives, they are often used to represent approximants and thus the linked articles discuss both fricatives and approximants. Nardog (talk) 01:26, 22 April 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Nardog: Sounds good, thanks! TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 02:57, 23 April 2023 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May, 2023

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The retroflex sibilant affricates, [ʈʂ] and [ɖʐ] are transcribed by <tʂ dʐ> can someone please fix this? For unvoiced lateral affricates, fricatives, and taps, can we please stop using obsolete symbols and use standard IPA symbols with diacritics instead? Tdog500 (talk) 20:49, 18 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 20 July 2023

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To the immediate left of ɭ can its voiceless counterpart ɭ̊ be added with a link to Voiceless retroflex lateral approximant (a redirect currently). This consonant is listed in inventories of Toda. عُثمان (talk) 18:12, 20 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: Voiceless "approximants" are not recognized by the IPA and don't have their own articles, so they're not linked. Nardog (talk) 07:37, 21 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Nardog Do you have a source for this lack of recognition? I was unable to find one. عُثمان (talk) 16:42, 21 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
See Approximant#Voiceless approximants. Nardog (talk) 23:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Template-protected edit request on 10 August 2023

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ɕ and ʑ are shown as Palatal Sibilant fricative. They are marked as Voiced alveolo-palatal fricative and Voiced alveolo-palatal fricative in official IPA table and other sources too. Alveolo-palatal and palatal are not same. Sarangem (talk) 14:25, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

From the Palatal consonant article, "In phonology, alveolo-palatal [...] consonants are commonly grouped as palatals, [...]". The two symbols in the IPA pulmonic consonants table, ɕ and ʑ, are linked to their correct articles. Since there is no specific alveolo-palatal sibilant fricative grouping in this table, we are compelled to accept that they are intentionally being grouped as palatals as is commonly done. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 17:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Protected edit request on 8 October 2023

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The voiceless upper-pharyngeal plosive and the voiced upper-pharyngeal plosive are not known to occur in any language except possibly Nǁng, but we have standalone articles about them. We would need a new column. –LaundryPizza03 (d) 06:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Nardog (talk) 06:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply
Perhaps the content of those articles better belongs in Voiceless uvular plosive and Voiced uvular plosive. Nardog (talk) 06:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

May I add something?

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I would like to add some things For example:Adding their voiceless variations. Science boy 30 (talk) 10:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Add voiced and voiceless retroflex non-sibilant affricate

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These are [t̠͡ɻ̝̊] and [d̠͡ɻ̝], which have been shown to occur in Malagasy. Theknightwho (talk) 18:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: Articles don't exist. Nardog (talk) 00:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Nardog See Voiceless retroflex affricate#Voiceless retroflex non-sibilant affricate and Voiced retroflex affricate#Voiced retroflex non-sibilant affricate. Theknightwho (talk) 09:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Theknightwho could you specify exactly what addition/placement you want in each of these requests? I'm not a phonetician :) SWinxy (talk) 20:53, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
  Not done: Sections removed as verification failed. Nardog (talk) 05:02, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Add voiceless labiodental nasal

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This is [ɱ̊], which occurs in Angami and Kinyamwezi. Theknightwho (talk) 18:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: Article doesn't exist. Nardog (talk) 00:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Nardog See Voiceless labiodental nasal. Did you even bother checking? Theknightwho (talk) 09:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
Well, it wasn't linked in your {{IPAblink|ɱ̊}}. Let's wait until it gets marked as reviewed. Nardog (talk) 13:35, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
@Nardog Sure. What about the other two in the thread above? Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to independently verify the source. Theknightwho (talk) 15:45, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply
  Done Nardog (talk) 14:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Add voiced palatal tap

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This is [ɟ̆] (see link above). Theknightwho (talk) 15:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: AfD closed as merge. Nardog (talk) 08:03, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Fix improper diacritic position

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Based on the descending-letter diacritic positioning rule as listed on the official IPA chart, the voiceless retroflex lateral flap is incorrectly marked as ⟨𝼈̥⟩, rather than the clearer ⟨𝼈̊⟩. UniProbe62 (talk) 19:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Bad audio for voiceless alveolar lateral fricative

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I don't know where the audio comes, but the University of Glasgow audio for this symbol is much more accurate. The speaker in the current recording has far too much non-lateral air-flow at the end of his pronunciation, which is quite misleading.

A great thanks to those who maintain this page! 192.114.91.249 (talk) 14:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)Reply