Template talk:Coord/Archive 9

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Degrees of arc notation and Google Maps

I noticed on Acland, Queensland that the coord flag {{coord|27|18|13.33|S|151|41|27.97|E|display=title}} is off a little bit (5897 miles, marked on Gmaps at -27.294, 51.71). Checking more > Wikipedia shows the wiki article tag. The correct coordinates in decimal degrees are {{coord|-27.3035| 151.6899}}. I did not correct the error, but Im noting it here because its not the first time that I've seen these kinds of correlation problems. Either there is a fault on this end or at Google. -Stevertigo (w | t | e) 00:16, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I've corrected the coordinates in the enwiki article. Not sure what else to do, short of tracking down and hassling the editor who made the (probably innocent) typographical error. --Stepheng3 (talk) 01:10, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Use for districts

It is appropriate to use this template for districts rather than specific places? if not what should I use? User:The Anomebot2 has added "Replacing geodata: {{coord missing|Somerset}}" to lots of districts in Somerset eg Taunton Rural District, Dulverton Rural District etc and I'm not sure whether this template which points to a single place is the right one to use.— Rod ^talk 12:47, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Of course - the documentation examples include places as large as the People's Republic of China. See Template:Coord#Coordinate parameters: I would say that one of type:adm1st, type:adm2nd or type:adm3rd should be chosen, depending upon the importance of the district concerned. Per this table, Somerset as a whole would be 2nd level, district councils within Somerset (and unitary authorities) would be 3rd level. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I've done Langport Rural District (even though these rural districts no longer exist) as an example with {{coord|51.038|-2.827|type:adm3rd:GB|display=title}}, could you confirm the format & then I'll do the others.— Rod ^talk 14:20, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Should have been {{coord|51.038|-2.827|type:adm3rd_region:GB|display=title}}, otherwise fine. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the help - I think they are all done now.— Rod ^talk 16:17, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Unexpected behavior

I noticed this anomaly this evening:

{{Coord| 44.112 | N| 87.913 |W}} → 44.112°N 87.913°W / 44.112; -87.913

{{Coord| 44.112 | N| 87.913 | W}} → errors

{{Coord| 44.112 | N | 87.913 |W}} → errors

Seems to be an untrimmed white space problems.  –droll [chat] 05:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

This is down to the way that the template determines which pair of parameters (2/4, 3/6 or 4/8) has been used to pass the hemisphere identifiers. There are three 'switch' tests:

{{#switch:{{{4}}}{{{8}}}|NE|NW|SE|SW=y}}

{{#switch:{{{3}}}{{{6}}}|NE|NW|SE|SW=y}}

{{#switch:{{{2}}}{{{4}}}|NE|NW|SE|SW=y}}

and if no match is found on any of them, the last one throws an error by being wrapped in a {{#if:|d|ERROR}}, which cases the subtemplate {{Coord/input/ERROR}} to be invoked. Since the {{{4}}} butts up to the {{{8}}} (and the same with the other pairs), they rely on there being no spaces after the N/S nor before the E/W, since those would break that join.

Plugging your test data into the third of these shows:

{{#switch: NW|NE|NW|SE|SW=y}}

{{#switch: N W|NE|NW|SE|SW=y}}

{{#switch: N W|NE|NW|SE|SW=y}}

the second and third, containing an intervening space, fail because no match is found. To cater for one leading space on the E/W, and/or one trailing space on the N/S, would complicate the template and slow it down. It's already criticised for being slow as things stand.

I shall add a note to the documentation. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:34, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into it.  –droll [chat] 01:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

WikiMiniAtlas uses wrong scale

During the current debate at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Highways#Geocoding of highways I discovered (to my shock and dismay) that the WikiMiniAtlas does not properly account for the dim: parameter when selecting its map scale. Is the MiniAtlas still supported? If so, how do I get this bug fixed? --Stepheng3 (talk) 21:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I still support it. Do you have an example? You are not talking about the scale bar, are you? I'm sorry that I have caused you shock and dismay ; -). --Dschwen 21:35, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, the example on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Highways#Geocoding of highways uses a syntax that was considered wrong when i implemented it. dim:1000km is not supported. The documentation back then stated that the argument is to be given in Meters (no mention of unit qualifiers such as km). If it is wished (or if the documentation has changed about that) I can surely implement it. If only to avoid further dismay or shock. --Dschwen 21:38, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I changed the documentation here following the discussion here. Sorry if my reaction was overdramatic. --Stepheng3 (talk) 23:32, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Ha ha ha, pardon me, but this is kind of funny. Anyhow I changed the WMA code to recognize a km suffix on the dim parameter. --Dschwen 23:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the WMA code. --Stepheng3 (talk) 23:37, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm in need of a template coding wizard.

I am completely baffled by a coding problem. Please look at the code in User:Droll/subpages/sandbox5. A <p> is present in the HTML generated for the first example and not the second. I'm thinking this behavior started recently. I don't think it's problem with {{Infobox valley}} as this behavior is showing up in other infoboxes as well. The behavior seems to be connected with this template. An example using {{Infobox coord}} works fine. The example that transcludes {{Coord}} directly has the problem.  –droll [chat] 00:04, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Hold on. I've got some time an I'm going to work on this now.  –droll [chat] 02:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Never mind. It's got something to do with the may {{Location map}} was evoked in s sub-template. Sorry for the bother. –droll [chat] 03:10, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Making just a globe appear

Is there any way of making just a globe appear and not the drawn out coordinates (which on paper/screen really mean nothing to the average user)? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:24, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'd rather have the globe removed and display the old small script in the title line by default. The globe looks weird inside infoboxes while the coordinates as such are just another bit of plain text. De728631 (talk) 15:35, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

This isn't for the title or infobox, it would be for Road Junction Lists. Linear features like roads require a multitude of points to acurately represent the subject. The general contention of adding ANY coordinates to road articles is that either A) There won't be enough to represent the winding road, or B) There will be enough, but there will be coordinates everywhere.

My solution is to have normal/full-coordinates in the title which represent the midpoint of the road, and then use a {{coord}} at each junction along the road. The globe image could then be put into a new column at the right of the table instead of the full space-consuming coordinates. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:47, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Ah, ok. That sounds reasonable. Maybe someone can code a "style=" parameter switch that either displays the globe, the text or both (default). De728631 (talk) 19:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

The globe is not generated by the template, but by the meta:WikiMiniAtlas, it is a UI element (clicking it opens the little map). If you want to separate the globe from the coordinates changes will be necesary in the WMA. But I don't think styling coordinates is a good idea from a usability standpoint. It makes things unexpected and inconsistent for the user. --Dschwen 21:53, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately without it I can't rig up an example to show you, but everything will make sense. It'd be applied across a broad range of articles. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 13:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

For an example you might just want to code the globe icon into your page without the full coord template, so we could have a look at it. De728631 (talk) 15:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I've prototyped a possible solution (that does not modify the UI). See the top of my user page for an example. --Stepheng3 (talk) 19:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Hopefully not. Any such styling should be a user-preference only. Wikipedia should be publishing data, not hiding it. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:06, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but a crapload of coordinates isn't useful data. That's why we don't write in point form. This isn't about bypassing the standard coordinates, it's about accessing geohack without showing coordinates (which aren't the important piece of information here). The display of coordinates is the burden upon this template. Not only that, but the coordinates are still shown on Geohack for the minority of people that want them instead of a satellite map.

Steveng3, that looks good, but there are two minor problems. One is that clicking the globe only shows a pop up map, the second is that the link for the geohack is a hidden space.--ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 23:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

"a crapload of coordinates isn't useful data … [coordinates] aren't the important piece of information here … The display of coordinates is the burden upon this template" - well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But its not mine, and it's not others'. Which is why you should be able to turn off the display of coordinates, an I and others should still see them by default. You suggest that the people who want to see them are a minority. Based on what research? What's seen in Geohack is irrelevant to this issue. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:36, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Floydian: I sympathize with both the issues you raise. I'd much rather get the link to Geohack than the link to the mini-atlas. However, there's also something to be said for consistency, i.e. clicking on the globe always does the same thing. As for the hidden space, what would you want to appear there? There has to be something attached to the URL or else the WikiMedia software displays something like this: [1]. If anyone can come up with a better solution, by all means, let us see it. Cheers,--Stepheng3 (talk) 01:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Use <nowiki/>, and it would make more sense as display=hidden, none (for us CSS users), or null (for programmer). — Dispenser 01:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

What about something like Victoria line#Stations and Victoria line#Maps? The actual coordinates are out of the way, but available for those who want it, you can't hide them or it doesn't work. Enter CBW, waits for audience applause, not a sausage. 06:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I've tried this, but most of the others were not keen on using the footnotes system for that purpose (after all, a single link to google maps covers all of those points with a line).

Steveng3, ideally it'd all be a single link. Oddly enough, I never even knew the globe made a map pop up until now, I always clicked the coordinates.

Andy, you are suggesting that most article readers care about the degrees minutes and seconds, and not the link to maps of the location. I find that illogical, it could never be the case since maps are universally readable, and coordinates require an understanding of the world, math, and geography to mean anything on their own. They are no more specific than putting the name of the country in to a layman, and thats what we are here to write for, not the technical experts. If anything, coords should be hidden by default, and then those who use just the coordinates can opt in. Those that don't get the map they are looking for. And yes, the fact that the coordinates are one click away is an enormous part of the argument, as you claim the necessity of having them, and I'm saying they are provided regardless. How does the coord template access geohack? I'll create a new template so that nothing has to be tinkered with on this one.

PS: Tell me where 42 degrees 12 minutes north and 74 degree, 13 minutes west is off the top of your head. What's the name of the nearest city? What state is it even in? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:15, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it should all be a single link. Technically, I'm sure it's possible to make {{Coord}} (or a new template) do what you want. I'd like to do it, but I believe it would upset a bunch of people who like the status quo. I'm not thrilled with the idea of creating a new template; I try to avoid copying code because it increases the maintenance burden. Perhaps you don't realize how complex {{Coord}} is; take a look!--Stepheng3 (talk) 00:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Floydian - can you tell me what N-(4-hydroxyphenyl)acetamide is, without looking it up? No? Will you insist on hiding that data, on paracetamol? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a story book. Enclyopedias feature facts and data; not hide them. And no, it does not require "an understanding of the world, math, and geography" to use coordinates - for example, by retyping them into a GPS device. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 01:14, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't include that term in the infobox or the navbox at the bottom, no. I'd mention it in the prose of the article, but since its irrelevent to the average reader (Wikipedia isn't written for scientists), I wouldn't repeat it beyond a single instance (unless I was specifically discussing the chemical makeup of paracetamol). To an average person reading the article, it is skimmed past with the blink of an eye.

Again, though, you miss the point that one click later, the coordinates are still there, for anyone that REALLY needs them specifically. I offer on the flipside, that absolutely ZERO road articles have any coordinates on them. I have been removing them as I see them, and removing the edits of anomebot2 on Ontario road articles. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:41, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

More compact inline Coord display

I'm writing a (deceased) person's article and There are many roads named after that person. These roads hardly deverse the dedicated articles in WP, so I prefer to use the inline Coord to indicate their location on the map. However, the commemoration section is written rather than listed, the long coordinates displayed after the globe icon doesn't look nice in the prose. Is there any solution to this. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 03:42, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like another job for "Making just a globe appear." Currently unimplemented -- see above.--Stepheng3 (talk) 03:47, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Guess I would use the ref_group=coord method to list the coordinates. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 04:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

See {{shc}}, a prototype I'm working on to do just this. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 06:09, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

elevation: parameter

A couple editors, notably EncMstr have added elevation: parameters to instances of {{Coord}}. Said parameter is currently undocumented, and I don't know of any tools that use it, which leaves it somewhat in limbo. Dewiki's de:Vorlage:Coordinate has a very similar elevation= parameter, and I can see how elevation data might be useful for 3-D visualizations. How do people feel about this? Should we make the parameter official (i.e. document it)? --Stepheng3 (talk) 18:27, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, as far as I understand the documentation on Dewiki, their elevation is only used for direct transmission to Geohack, so I don't know if this is really needed for use in WP. De728631 (talk) 19:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I didn't just make it up. I read about it either here in the template documentation or at WP:GEO. However, it was some time ago, like 2 or 3 years. Dispenser's coord report parses it and there are quite a few entries, much more than I've added. For example, it is supported here and in this sample output (as alt). It's quite useful for some points, like Cobb hotspot. Uhh, it looks like someone removed it from that article. Sheesh. —EncMstr (talk) 00:35, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

EncMstr, I believe you when you say that you didn't just make it up. However, since nobody has found the documentation for it on enwiki, I'd like to either document it or get rid of it. Since I haven't seen any argument for getting rid of it, the next step is to decide how it should be used.

The units of elevation would be metres, I imagine. Can we get by without handling secondary units such as feet and fathoms? The reference should probably be WGS84 (to be consistent with the latitude and longitude). Negative (and decimal?) values should be allowed.

The main question in my mind is what elevation to measure for vertical objects like dams, buildings, trees, antennae, and waterfalls. Any opinions? --Stepheng3 (talk) 18:11, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

In a perfect world, for every vertical object we'd know its height from base to top, & the elevation above sea level for its base. However we don't live in a perfect world, & I can conceive that any value for elevation would be for its base, its top -- or an unknown point in the object. Thus, not only would we have height & elevation parameters, the elevation parameter would have the further definitions of "base", "top", & "unknown"; I suggest that the default definition for elevation should be "base", but since I can understand that's something editors could have a fierce edit war over (someone else must have stated by now another Law of Wikipedia stating "There is no possible option or opinion too trivial or silly not to have its devoted and uncompromising supporters"), I'll leave that step for someone else to resolve. -- llywrch (talk) 15:30, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup

Can we delete these useless redirects?

• Template:Coord/d
• Template:Coord/dm
• Template:Coord/dms

Basilicofresco (msg) 05:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Something odd is going on here. The wiki thinks these templates are transcluded many times (see here, for instance), yet I can't find an instance of their use. --Stepheng3 (talk) 15:11, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

The templates are transcluded many times; but the redirects under discussion are not (see here, for instance). Follow the link given by Basilicofresco, such as Template:Coord/d; then at the top it says "(Redirected from Template:Coord/d)"; click that link, and then go for "what links here". --Redrose64 (talk) 16:28, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I figured I must be missing something obvious, and that was it. As far as I can tell, we're ready to delete all three redirects. Thanks, Redrose! --Stepheng3 (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Please, take a look at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2010 September 19#Template:Coord/d and write your thoughts. -- Basilicofresco (msg) 19:14, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Done. --Stepheng3 (talk) 21:42, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Where to place it in the article?

Sorry if it looks like a silly question, but I really don't understand where {{coord}} should be placed in the article code. For example at the Bătrâna article, shall it be placed where it is now, before the "==References==" section, or at after it, at the end of the article near the other templates: {{Hunedoara-geo-stub}}, {{Hunedoara County}} right before the categories ? —  Ark25  (talk) 07:25, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be one standard place for title coordinates. In cases like Bătrâna where there's an {{Infobox settlement}} template, I recommend coding the latitude and longitude in the Infobox using "|latd = |latm = |lats = |latNS = |longd = |longm = |longs = |longEW =|coordinates_display=inline,title". --Stepheng3 (talk) 08:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

For accessibility reasons it should be placed just before the categories so it appears last in the spoken document. — Dispenser 16:17, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. As I only edit those series of articles just for adding the {{Hunedoara County}} template, I have no time to encode the coordinates into the {{Infobox settlement}}, therefore I will use the second suggestion, so I'll place the {{coord}} just before the {{DEFAULTSORT}}. —  Ark25  (talk) 20:28, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Odd formatting under some circumstances

The screenshot below is IE8, classic skin and a window width of 900 or so. The effect is apparent on any page using Template:Coord with the title positioning. IE compatability mode does not change the layout. The same effect can be seen in Firefox also. I suspect it's to do with the wrapping of the "Main Page | Recent Changes | Edit this Page | Page history" line, but - TB (talk) 10:55, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

File:Coord template prob.gif

I viewed all versions of that page newer than July 6 and didn't see any problem. I tried it with Monobook and Vector on Firefox and Chrome. This revision seems the most likely to be the source of the screenshot. The only way I could get it to misbehave was with a window width below 600 pixels. —EncMstr (talk) 17:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

It's not specific to my test page there. Firefox, classic skin, Paris with a window width of 900 gives the same effect. It looks like the vertical positioning of the coordinate info is being calculated relative to the to the "Main Page" link rather than the "Privacy policy" link. - TB (talk) 08:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Multiple Coord Template Calls Overwrite each other, making them unreadable

There are many instances where at the top of the page there are more than one "coordinates" listed with what seem to be different values. The effect is as if they were typed on a typewriter using a carriage return but not a line feed (over typed). I suspect that it is because there are multiple calls to the Coord Template on that page. One example of this is on the templace_nrhp discussion page, but I've seen it on many other major article pages.

There should be some sort of check in putting out the "coordinates" at the top of the page that puts in a linefeed (html break) so that if multiple coords are being output they don't overlap.
Travelslow (talk) 13:56, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

You mention "templace_nrhp" earlier, but I suspect that you mean Template talk:Infobox NRHP. It's not really a problem on talk pages, these are not part of the encyclopedia. Talk pages are often used for demonstration, and I see that such demos occur at Template talk:Infobox NRHP#Tweaks proposed and also at Template talk:Infobox NRHP#De-listing and re-listing - these two demo infoboxes are clearly for different places, so you would expect the lat/long to differ as well.

However, differing coordinates is a problem on article pages, and there is a report updated weekly: Wikipedia:Database reports/Articles containing overlapping coordinates, which is prepared by a bot. In general:

• if the infobox has provision for lat/long, some infoboxes require these in decimal degrees; some in degrees/minutes/seconds; and some (including {{Infobox NRHP}} allow both; and where the infobox allows both forms, only one form should be given.
• if the infobox has provision for lat/long (in either form), there should be no need to use {{coord}} within the article as well, since almost every infobox with provision for lat/long will place the relevant coordinates at the article head
• if there is a need to use {{coord}} in addition to the lat/long in the infobox, or there is a need to use {{coord}} more than once in the same article, care should be taken to use the parameter |display=inline in the {{coord}}, and not |display=inline,title or |display=title.

Within normal wikicode, detecting multiple use of either of the latter two, or a single use where an infobox also allows coordinates, would be rather difficult: whilst an infobox is normally close to the top of the wikicode, the {{coord}} could be literally anywhere. If such a detection could be made, the upper-right position for coordinates assumes a particular page layout, because these coordinates are not part of the page text, but are overlaid on top. If there were to be multiple coordinates shown as a double column, these would overlap the portions of the page directly below. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:58, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Heading/direction

Is there a way to specify heading/direction (N, NW, W, SW,...) with this template or any other template? I would like to geocode the One Hundred Famous Views of Edo, i.e. add the location of a viewpoint and viewing direction. bamse (talk) 18:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

There is not. It is used only to document a position. There are additional attributes to make the point a particular size, and there is an old, controversial attribute for its elevation. But no direction.

There are several templates on commons for recording a camera's position and direction. They use the heading attribute. See commons:template:Location_dec. —EncMstr (talk) 18:37, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Sounds like you want the capabilities of commons:Template:Location and similar templates. I don't know of any Wikipedia template that would do this. If you want to put the coordinates on the image description pages, and the images are on Commons, it's quite easy - add one of {{Location}}, {{Object location}}, {{Location dec}} or {{Object location dec}}; the syntax is much the same as {{coord}} except that you add |heading:N| or similar. The first two are for where you have d/m/s coordinates; the other two are for decimal degrees. The "Location" ones show the location of the viewpoint; the "Object location" ones show the location of the image subject. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. Is there any particular reason why we don't have {{Location}} on wikipedia? Seems like a useful template. If I put the coordinates in the image description on commons, is there a way to (semi)-automatically import them to wikipedia? I would like to use Template:GeoGroupTemplate (or similar template if available) in the One Hundred Famous Views of Edo article. bamse (talk) 19:16, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Most of the functions of {{Location}} are covered by {{coord}}, apart from heading: and one or two others. Commons is primarily concerned with image files, and if the image depicts a fixed object - such as a church - we would be interested in recording the lat/long of the object also the direction we are looking in. Wikipedia also has articles on fixed objects, but whilst we are interested in the lat/long, the article will mainly be text, for which there is no "viewing direction" as such.

To see what a commons file bearing a {{Location}} template looks like, see File:Moulsford railway station site.jpg, it's in the bottom of the "Summary" box; similarly, for {{Object location}}, see File:Port Meadow Halt railway station site.jpg. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:56, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I understand that for most uses on wikipedia, the coord template does not need the "heading" option. However for articles about paintings, photographies, or in my case it could be useful. Would it be difficult to add this functionnality to the coord template? bamse (talk) 22:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Approximate coordinates

Recently, I have been writing on archaeological sites that have been submerged due to the construction of dams. Usually I know their approximate location, but in many cases not their exact location. Is there any way to indicate this in the coord template, or would it be better to leave the coords out? -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 16:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Give them to the best precision that you have. I say best: don't go overboard, one second of arc should be sufficient. There is a tendency for coordinates to be over precise - I have seen coordinates of e.g. a railway station which were quoted to six places of decimals, enough to pinpoint one of the stones in the track. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:39, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I never use more than 3-4 decimals and try to get a nice round number anyway, so that should be ok. -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 18:47, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Right, and the "scale" parameter can also be used to make sure the map is sufficiently wide to show the level of uncertainty. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Help implementing this template on another Wikipedia

Hi, I was attempting to replicate the Coord template on the Amharic Wikipedia. However, I get an expression error when attempting to use it example. After some visual debugging, I think the problem lies in the Coord/link template Amharic version here since that is the first transclusion on which an error message appears. I also don't know why the globe picture/icon doesn't appear. I'd appreciate it if you guys have any suggestions. Thanks Elfalem (talk) 17:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Check out meta:WikiMiniAtlas for the globe icon. It is added by a piece of Javascript. --Dschwen 21:23, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Reading imported coord formats

I translate articles from German Wikipedia where the infobox parameters are often of the format "lat = 52/39/27/N" and "long = 12/45/12/E". It would be a real help if there was a smart way of getting {{coord}} to read these formats intelligently. Currently you have to calculate what they are in decimal and overwrite them with the decimal format or write out the full coord format, including all the standard parameters that an infobox normally handles automatically. This is highly repetitive and time-consuming, the very thing templates are supposed to eliminate. Is there a template that already does this? --Bermicourt (talk) 11:25, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Many infoboxes accept coordinates in degrees minutes and seconds, which seems to me the best way to transfer this information. Another approach would be to click on the coordinate link (in dewiki) to get the coordinates in decimal form (via GeoHack).--Stepheng3 (talk) 12:43, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Bermicourt, your example could be translated to {{coord|52|39|27|N|12|45|12|E}} which produces 52°39′27″N 12°45′12″E, a trivial conversion. It seems quite strange that / is used as a template delimiter. —EncMstr (talk) 13:15, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes I can do that manually, but I want the template to handle this format automatically. E.g. Template:infobox mountain hut can only handle decimal entries. The German version will handle "lat = 52/39/27/N" and "long = 12/45/12/E" and adds all the coordinate parameters automatically (e.g. type:landmark_region:AT-7 etc.) but it screws up on English Wiki. It's clearly possible to fix this, but I don't have the expertise. I could even live with "lat = 52|39|27|N" and "long = 12|45|12|E" but that just produces 52°N 12°E / 52; 12. --Bermicourt (talk) 14:13, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

That infobox template does not follow the WP:GEO implementation guidelines. It should alternatively accept a coords= parameter instead of only lat= and long=. Perversely, it forces decimal input and degrees/minutes/seconds output. It looks like you are doing quite a few of the mountain hut articles. Until someone augments the template to accept DMS, consider forgoing use of the infobox for position and simply include {{coord|xx|xx|xx|N|xx|xx|xx|E|type:landmark_region:xx_elevation:xx_dim:xx|display=title}} below the external links section. —EncMstr (talk) 14:46, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm happy to add a standard "coordinates" parameter to the infobox for those creating articles from scratch. Then anyone can add {{coord|xx|xx|xx|N|xx|xx|xx|E|type:landmark_region:xx_elevation:xx_dim:xx}} etc. as desired. However, what I'm also after is the ability to accept the format stated above as well. Not only will this greatly speed up the transfer of info from de.wiki, it seems an excellent shorthand for dms data anyway i.e. lat = 52/39/27/N and long = 12/45/12/E is much quicker to type than lat_d=52|lat_m=39|lat_s=27|lat_NS=N|long_d=12|long_m=45|long_s=12|long_EW=E. And surely that's a major part of what templates - saving time and hassle. --Bermicourt (talk) 15:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Not all infoboxes allow both ways of specifying lat/long: most allow only decimal degrees. When I have lat/long as separate deg, min, sec values, I put them straight into {{decdeg}} which does the conversion for me. {{decdeg|52|39|27}} and {{decdeg|12|45|12}} give 52.6575 and 12.7533333 respectively, and I don't worry about the differing number of decimal places: my source data is to the whole second, so that's what goes in the wikipedia page. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:18, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I oppose adding a slash-delimited format (which might get used in a few hundred articles) to {{Coord}}, which is used in a half-million articles. While it might make sense to add a slash-delimited format to {{Infobox mountain hut}}, that should be discussed elsewhere.--Stepheng3 (talk) 21:27, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't think they're in opposition. Couldn't {{Coord}} be slightly expanded to accept the shortened format as well? It already has several modes of input; this one would speed up the creation of coordinate info as well as helping us translators. BTW we're not talking a few hundred articles. I've nearly hit the 2,000 mark and I'm just one translator. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:50, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I wrote something awhile back for Template:Infobox Burg, see Template:Infobox Burg/dms. I could probably modify this to act as a translation-frontend, which could be substituted to generate the desired format. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 07:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. That would be really helpful. --Bermicourt (talk) 11:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Okay, try this {{Coordinate |NS=50/41/6.42/N |EW=7/9/2.43/E |type=landmark |dim=1 |region=DE-NW}} → {{coord|50|41|6.42|N|7|9|2.43|E|region:DE-NW_type:landmark}}. I could make it actually functional, but for now it just shows you the corresponding version of this template. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:33, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The non-coord details are no problem, but I tried adding "NS=" and "EW=" into the infobox template and it didn't like it. It generated the message something like "{{Coord}} missing longitude (decimal) parameter". I also tried the {{Coordinate/dec}} template which was fine for decimal inputs but didn't like the "50/41/6.42/N" formats. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:36, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

It's complaining "missing longitude (dec format) in {{Coord}}" because your change has hidden both the longitude and latitude: {{coord}} doesn't recognise either |NS= or |EW=. Plastikspork's demo above uses {{Coordinate}}, a different template which does recognise those parameters, and converts them into a form recognised by the current version of {{coord}}; it then gives you a sample piece of wikicode, which you can copy&paste. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Using HTML5 microdata for this template

It would help people who are using our geodata very much if we could add HTML5 microdata to the output HTML in these templates. Currently, we use a lot of <span> elements to annotate the geodata (which i guess people parse from the HTML, or they use the original wikitext). Things would get a lot easier if we would use the existing spec for that. I would propose the following.

The current HTML looks like this:

<span class="geo-dec" title="Maps, aerial photos, and other data for this location">48.8583°N 2.2945°E</span>

I would change it to this:

<span class="geo-dec" itemprop="geo" itemscope itemtype="http://data-vocabulary.org/Geo">
    <span itemprop="latitude">48.8583</span>°N
    <span itemprop="longitude">2.2945</span>°E
</span>

As far as i can see, this would not break anything, and we would give people the change to use this data for, in example, a Firefox plugin. Husky ^{(talk page)} 17:23, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Link text

Is there no parameter to make this template do something simple like this? I thought some way to control the link text would be a necessity for non-cluttered use in wiki-tables. Or maybe a “lite” version which simply links to geohack without reaming the client with a bunch of formatting junk, and also omits the globe icon. I suppose I could create one. ―cobaltcigs 19:20, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I have looked for such a mechanism as well. The purpose of this template was to subsume all competing templates by being a superset of their functionality. Pages such as List of shoals of Oregon might possibly be improved by a lighter-weight template—At least I thought that a few years ago. Now I've grown used to it, though the rather low limit on the number of uses of the template on a single page (~400 IIRC) is the best argument for simplification. —EncMstr (talk) 23:07, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Potential for new type of "defunct" or "demolished"

We often have locations for buildings which do not currently exist. I suspect we may want to somehow distinguish this? dm (talk) 07:51, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

If I recall, the type is there to try to get the map scale correct, so "landmark" seems to work for this purpose. Or is there something that I am missing? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:28, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, to be able to distinguish between things that used to be at that location and things which are actually there now if you wandered by. dm (talk) 05:13, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

You can set the "name" parameter if you want to add more description. To actually make additional "type" values work would require changes to geohack, if I recall. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 06:26, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Option display=none ?

I propose to add a new option "display=none", to enable showing only the clickable globe, not the coordinates. In many cases the actual numeric coordinates are cluttering the page. See for example the station list in BTS Skytrain. It would look better without all the spelled-out coordinates. If someone would really want to know the numbers, they can click on the globe. −Woodstone (talk) 09:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

See the "link text" section above. I believe you are both basically asking for the same thing. Perhaps the best approach would be to have a template which just generates the URL, then editors can control the presentation in these special cases. My only hesitation is that there has been some resistance from the "microformats" and "accessibility" folks about having links which are not obvious in their function. However, I do think you have a point about presentation in tables, where there is a entire column of coordinates. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 20:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Is Google Maps a reliable source for coords?

It appears that if you go to Google Maps, right-click on the map and select "What's here" it will give you the coordinates - apparently (according to our article) as WGS 84, which is what the {{coord}} template uses. Google Maps also has a "LatLng Marker" feature which will give the coords as a tooltip. Is Google Maps sufficiently reliable for us to use it as the sole source of coords, or do we need to confirm the value by other means? I check a couple of locations - Google Maps vs Wikipedia - including one that I had personally determined with my GPS navigation device, and they were reasonably close. Admittedly, I was only checking that my interpretation of the coordinates was correct, rather than that they were accurate. If Google Maps is deemed sufficiently reliable, it makes it very easy for anyone to put coordinates into articles, without having to have a GPS unit or even to go there. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:57, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I consider it reasonably reliable, but it does contain errors. For example, the marker for Alcatraz was located within downtown San Francisco about a year ago, an error of about 6,000 metres (20,000 ft). I submitted a correction and it was fixed within 48 hours. I don't know how the error originated, but I suspect it was due to a concerted effort, probably by pranksters, to make a series of small adjustments—to move it to their company. I vaguely recall a feature of Google Maps which automatically accepts small corrections, like less than 100 metres (330 ft). No doubt the database is compiled from a variety of sources, but essentially without sourcing, at least from our viewpoint. However, for each geomarker, there are many people who can verify the correctness to a fine degree and many more who can attest to it being reasonable (that is, approximately correct). The more people who review a location, the more effectively reliable the data becomes—as long as some reviewers take the initiative to report errors. —EncMstr (talk) 06:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

There appear to be two issues here with regard to reliability. One is the physical location of an "object" (or a Google Maps label) relative to other objects (geographic features, roads etc). Eg whether Alcatraz is located on the island or on the mainland ("downtown San Francisco"). The other is the geo-cordinates. In your example with Alcatraz, presumably the "error" was the location, rather than the coordinates. But can we rely on the coordinates if we know that the location of a label is correct? If so, then we can mitigate the risk of errors by only using the coords if we know that the location is correct. For example, if I wanted to get the location of Garden City, Booragoon, a shopping centre which I have driven to several times, I could look it up on Google Maps, and verify that it is shown on the map in the correct place - based on my own personal knowledge, but also I can check it against my street directory. Having verified the location (eg corner of Marmion Street and Riseley Street, Booragoon), can I then take the coordinates from Google Maps as sufficiently reliable?

I have done quite few tests of my handheld GPS device against coordinates taken from a known location in Google maps (preferably in satellite view). They are all correct to within the accuracy of consumer GPS (about 10 m). So when you know a place, the coordinates from "drop a marker here" are reliable. Existing shown markers are regularly placed quite incorrectly and should not be used. −Woodstone (talk) 07:53, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I fully agree with Woodstone. -- Basilicofresco (msg) 12:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from AMDMA, 6 February 2011

The co-ordinates for Chateau Lake Louise are correct, however the map marker 'W' is placed incorrectly on Google Earth at the location for the Banff Springs Hotel, some 70m SE of where it should be AMDMA (talk) 11:39, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Coordinate extraction is up to Google. There is nothing that could be done here. --Dschwen 13:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Errors in Google Maps links

When using Google Maps to display locations from GeoHack, the link from Space Mountain (Disneyland) shows "Did you mean: E 9174 S, Sandy, Salt Lake, UT 84093" because of the nested parentheses. Also, the link from Monsters, Inc. Mike & Sulley to the Rescue! shows "We could not understand the location 33.8084,-117.9172(Monsters, Inc. Mike". There are two failures in this case. First, the "&" is interpreted as an intersection crossing. Second, the word "to" is interpreted as the destination. Removing both elements works properly. In most error cases the correct map is still displayed. However, there is no marker on the map for the actual location. It seems that we need to have the template strip or escape the portions of the title that Google doesn't like, or perhaps this could be done in GeoHack. —UncleDouggie (talk) 16:22, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The URL I get for Google Maps in map mode is http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.811,-117.9174&spn=0.002,0.002&t=m&q=33.811,-117.9174 and there is no problem with it displaying a map. How did you get that strange URL? —EncMstr (talk) 23:17, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I click on the coordinate numbers at the top of the article and then click on "in Google Maps" in GeoHack. How are you doing it? —UncleDouggie (talk) 01:13, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I added urlencode to Template:Coor URL, here. I am hopeful that this fixes it and doesn't break something else. It may require some changes to geohack as well. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:34, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

No, that double encodes everything, breaking it. — Dispenser 02:53, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I realized that, and reverted it. If you check the geohack page, it's only the top Google link which is broken. The one further down in the table isn't broken. The difference is that the top one adds {title} to the query, but the one further down doesn't. I suggest removing the {title} from the query. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Does editing Template:GeoTemplate have any impact on the geohack page? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 02:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Not for a few months. You can thank wikimedia-tech for setting up the squid servers that way :-). I should push update to trash the squids every day or every hour? — Dispenser 03:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

How about if we drop the top links altogether? For most of the links I have recently added, satellite view is the only one that makes sense and readers can click any of those links from the table if they have the bandwidth. However, it's not clear what will happen when the top link is clicked. They will probably assume that the big bold link is the best one to use, which in many cases is wrong. —UncleDouggie (talk) 03:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, I've found that ACME Mapper satellite view works better than Google for the pages I mentioned because the entire window is filled with the view instead of just a small box. Another column with two words on the utility of each service would be more useful than labeling some as "popular". Google Maps could say "good directions", ACME could say "large view", etc. —UncleDouggie (talk) 03:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I think dropping the two speed links is appropriate, though there will probably be some objection from people used to clicking on them. I can understand why they seem to be an improvement, but you make a good case for them being confusing.

It was I who set up the scaling for ACME: it took several hours of experimentation; thanks for the compliments!

Recommending particular links for particular uses makes some sense, but seems like it would be violating a certain amount of neutrality of mapping services. —EncMstr (talk) 04:31, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Well then, thanks! I do have one observation on the ACME scaling: The minimum scale setting seems to be about 2000 even though you can zoom in more within the viewer. For example, one of the geohack links from Mad Tea Party has a scale of 1000. You can see the difference clearly if you click on satellite view for both Google Maps and ACME Mapper. Just a nit comment in case you weren't aware, I don't want to make things anymore complicated for you. It's rare that I use a scale smaller than 2000, but it seemed to make sense in this article because the target is so small.

As for POV on the mapping services, we should be OK by sticking to feature oriented terminology instead of comparative terms. "Large view" has less POV than "Larger view". For Google Maps, "Detailed directions" is better than "Good directions". —UncleDouggie (talk) 05:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Spurious precision

For the purposes of this encyclopedia, stating coords with excess precision is simply clutter. I would say the limit should be: 4 decimal places when using degrees and decimals or one second of arc when using dms. Bear in mind that 0.0001° represents 11 metres in latitude or about 7 m of longitude at the latitude of the UK. Or 1" represents 30 m of latitude or about 20 m of long in the UK. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 14:19, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

While I commend your initiative, such a simplistic approach would cause more trouble than it resolves. For example, it would unhelpfully increase the precision on Northern Hemisphere, while on Mill Ends Park it might decrease the position to the point where the park is not easily found by coordinate alone.

Rounding the coordinate given by a reliable source begins a slippery slope of original research. For example, GNIS gives the location of Yachats, Oregon (see "Yachats". Geographic Names Information System. United States Geological Survey, United States Department of the Interior.) as 44.3112312°N 124.1048418°W / 44.3112312; -124.1048418 and 44°18′40″N 124°06′17″W. Since Yachats stretches for several miles, a precision of 4 decimal digits is excessive using such a rationale.

There are other suggestions for managing precision. The most relevant is at WikiProject Geographical coordinates here. I think that combining that with a dim parameter is most effective. —EncMstr (talk) 18:19, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

See also WP:OPCOORD. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the location for Mill Ends Park appears to be about 40 cm beyond the southeast corner of the park boundary as shown in Google Maps satellite and ACME mapper satellite views. Also, Wikipedia isn't limited to the UK and longitudinal errors are much greater at lower latitudes. I have tried to limit my additions to 4 decimal places, but there several cases where I had to add an extra digit to hit the target. —UncleDouggie (talk) 08:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

0.0001° of longitude is 7 metres for London and 11 metres at the equator - is that "much worse"? — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 17:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Was I saying anything about increasing precision is cases where less than 4 decimal places are used? Of course not. 45°N 0°E is fine in Northerh Hemisphere - why touch it? Mill Ends Park is a good exception which proves the rule. In Yachats the precision ought to be reduced - and what's this about original resaerch? Is Google maps not a reliable source? — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 17:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. I placed the coordinate with great care in the middle of the photo so that Google Earth, Google Maps, ACME, and Terraserver agreed well enough. Perhaps there is some drift in how the mapping services work? I explored the satellite image archive through Google Earth and discovered:

• Images taken 2005-7-30, 2007-5-6, and 2007-6-11, have resolution too low to identify the park.
• The 2005-7-3 image shows the park at its former location, 4.87 meters northerly (352°) of the new location.
• 2006-6-26 shows the park missing during road construction.
• 2007-7-13 is perfectly centered on the coordinate.
• 2008-7-23 image makes the park look about one meter further north than previous image.
• 2009-7-15 is nicely centered (again).
• The latest image, 2010-8-14, moves the park about one meter northwest of the previous image.

I guess we're beyond the limits of intended mapping accuracy. Still, that's pretty impressive repeatability. —EncMstr (talk) 18:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

The images are probably taken from different points in space and possibly with different satellites as well. They then have to transform the 2D camera image onto the irregularly shaped surface of the earth. Even if they use some known reference points to aid in the alignment, it's not going to be perfect across the full field of view of the camera. —UncleDouggie (talk) 04:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I refuse to quibble over whether 0.00001-degree precision is excessive or not until the backlog of coordinates with 0.0000000000001-degree precision is under control. —Stepheng3 (talk) 19:13, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Personal choice of dms vs. decimal degrees?

The HTML generated from coord gives a choice of display formats of which one gets selected via javascript/css. I believe one can add something to ones personal javascript to force coords to display always as decimal (or as dms, if that is your bag). Can someone confirm, point me to the instructions and preferably add them to Template:Coord/doc. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 17:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

It's already there. It's also duplicated on the geographical coordinates project page. —UncleDouggie (talk) 04:25, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Dunno how I missed it. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 11:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

coordinates causing overload on pages with transclusion

pages that transclude dat from oteh pgaes that have coodinates is casuing overload on the main pages where the transcluded data is--Andrewcrawford (talk - contrib) 20:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Example, please? —Stepheng3 (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Checking the user's edit history, I figured out it was on List of Time Team episodes, before some changes were made. The way that page works is that it transcludes a large number of individual series pages, each which contains the coordinates in the episode table. While there was no problem with having each of these on a single episode page, putting them all onto one page didn't work. It's the well known issue that there is a limit to the number of times this template can be transcluded on a single page (e.g., splitting the "mars craters" pages into subpages). I don't exactly see why the coordinates are necessary for these pages in the first place, but it appears the problem has been solved by simply excluding the coordinates in the top level transclusion. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 17:18, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The coordinates are necessary (in as much as anything on Wikipedia is ;-) ) because each episode takes place at a single location. Including the coordinates in such a list enables them, for example, to be mapped, by extracting them as a KML or GPX file, for instance. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:22, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Several coordinates on one map

In the German WP, I came across the template ((All Coordinates)). In cases the article contains several coordinates (with names in the parameters!) in the text, the template shows them all on one map (Google or Bing) with their names (e.g. de:Brücken von Edirne). Because of the English language of the template, I thought it would work in the English WP, but apparently it does not. From the URL (http://toolserver.org/) it would appear that it is a purely German WP-template? (Sorry, I have no idea about these technicalities). Would it be difficult to adapt it/to have it adapted to the English WP, since it is a nice thing to have? --AHert (talk) 19:35, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

We have this here, let me see if I can come up with the name of the template. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Found Template:GeoGroupTemplate. Is this what you are looking for? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible to do this without having all the individual coordinates show up? If so, this would make a good improvement (and a case) for coords on roads and rivers and other linear features. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 19:49, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Great. I tried it, it is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a lot. In my example, several items (eg bridges) have their own coordinates shown in the text of the article. The template then shows them all on one map. That seems to be a different case than Floydian's problem. Somebody should put a hint/ a link to it in this article page here. --AHert (talk) 20:00, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's not exactly the same as the German template, since it doesn't use the "title bar" to display it, but the same basic functionality. There is some discussion about "display=none" above. This could be used to do what you are asking. The Microformats folks often object to this sort of thing, since they want information to be visible. However, if there is consensus to add this feature, I would certainly do it. Perhaps create a straw poll? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:03, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

It's been a heady battle before, but it basically comes down to the fact that as road editors, we'd get together and craft a policy regarding its use in road articles. It essentially precludes the use of coordinates in road articles at all. I've always made a habit of deleting them since they're invalid/inaccurate at best. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 21:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. Lots of roads in Category:Geographic coordinate lists. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, the coord guys go around adding them to every single page, despite several editors telling them to stop. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 21:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

"Road editors" don't own articles about roads, any more than "coordinate editors" own articles about geographical features. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:26, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

This is only tangentially a microformats issue; we're developing an encyclopedia, and as such, encyclopedic facts (which includes coordinates) should be visible to our readers, not hidden. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:28, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

blue globe

This question was posed here before but I can't find an answer. Is there a way to disable the template from rendering the blue globe? It seems that at FAC reviews the icons are not acceptable (see the paragraph above WP:ICONDECORATION) MisterBee1966 (talk) 13:39, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The blue globe is not an icon decoration (click it!) it is a part of the user interface, like the icon next to your username, and the "icon" in the top left corner. Disabling it on individual pages would make the user interface unexpected, which is bad from a usability stand point. --Dschwen 18:11, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The only shortcut we could point to was WP:ICONDECORATION, which gave the wrong idea, sorry. I've created a more appropriate shortcut to an existing style guideline (and one that's enforced at FAC, I've found): WP:NOICONS. I'm not sure that I agree with MisterBee on adding coordinates into the text; I usually see coordinates either at the top of the article, in infoboxes and other boxes, or in the External links section. It feels a little out of place in text to me. But if you guys want to make a version of the template without the icon, I have no objection to running it by FAC reviewers to see how they respond; it may be okay. - Dank (push to talk) 18:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

It is not a property of the template. Site-wide code parses each coordinate on the page and adds the blue globe gui element. This has been the case for several years. I appreciate the work the FAC project is doing, but they are putting the cart in front of the ox if they seriously consider subtracting points from candidates because of this. Sounds pretty superficial to me (what's next? declining candidates because they have an ugly puzzleball in the top left corner?). Anyhow there is the possibility to change the symbol (even into any unicode charcter, like triangle down for example). That is the direction the discussion should take. Such a change would affect all coordinate links on the entire site (this is mandated by UI consistency). So this is a bit bigger than the little FAC horizon. --Dschwen 18:41, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. - Dank (push to talk) 18:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Dank Ha, you know that your username means "gratitude" in german? :-) --Dschwen 19:46, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Klar, mein Urgroßvater war Deutscher. It's also slang for a kind of marijuana, and can also mean "wet and nasty". It's also my name, Dan K. Take your pick :) - Dank (push to talk) 19:59, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Is there already a discussion going on about this. I briefly looked at WP:FAC but didn't see anything. --Dschwen 20:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Not really. I asked at WT:MIL#Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Ernst Lindemann but didn't get a response. - Dank (push to talk) 21:15, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Putting graphical interface elements into the middle of inline body text is not appropriate. This is clearly specified at Wikipedia:NOICONS. It's fine for infoboxes and title coords, but there needs to be a way to turn this off for body text. Kaldari (talk) 17:52, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Opened bug at https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/WMA-35. Kaldari (talk) 18:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. See also Sandy's comments here. - Dank (push to talk) 18:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

wildbot at Template talk:Coord/speedtest

I replaced the wildbot notice at Template:Coord/speedtest to this page (as the template indicates above) after trying to fix the diamb. wikilinks. Not all links can be fixed by me nor will I fixed all to the correct page (good faith). mabdul 07:48, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Markup of this template.

This template has for a long time produced a paragraph (<p></p>) as its outer tag. This causes two problems:

• The markup is semantically wrong. The coordinate "box" in the top right corner of the article is clearly not a paragraph.
• As a consequence, the usually reliable method of machine-extracting intro paragraphs from Wikipedia articles (i.e. get the first paragraph that is a direct child of the content DIV) fails for articles which include this template.
• Since the P tag is normally used for paragraphs, plenty of skins and user styles redefine it. Any such redefinition will affect the display of coordinates which can't be fixed, because the P tag around the coordinates doesn't even have a class that would allow it to be differentiated from other paragraphs.

The obvious solution is to put it all into a <div></div> element.

Any thoughts? Zocky | picture popups 14:04, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

The <p>...</p> tags are not produced by the {{coord}} template, or any of its subtemplates: these generate only two types of tag, <a>...</a> and <span>...</span>. The enclosing <p>...</p> which you see in the wikicode is generated by the MediaWiki parser, and is a result of placing the {{coord}} on a line of its own. You can test this easily by sandboxing something like this:

The location you are looking for is {{coord|51|34|N|4|17|W|type:landmark_region:GB|display=inline}}

and looking at the HTML yielded. Then vary the |display= - you'll see that the opening <p> always occurs before the words "The location". --Redrose64 (talk) 15:35, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I realized that the P tag is produced by the Mediawiki parser, but that happens because the top element returned by this template is an inline-level element. If the top level were an block-level element (like div), the parser would not add the P. Look at the HTML source of the examples below. Zocky | picture popups 19:18, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

---

div, not surrounded by p

span, surrounded by P

---

The problem with using <div>...</div> is that the coords would no longer appear inline when that was desired: since <div>...</div> is, as you say, a block-level element; it forces a newline, as below. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:51, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

---

Some text and then a

div, not surrounded by p

and then the text continues

Some text and then a span, surrounded by P and then the text continues

---

globe:vesta

With DAWN now in orbit around Vesta, I'm thinking we'll soon have a raft of named features (with coordinates) appearing in articles. Time to add, globe:vesta as a legal parameter, I think. Or should it be globe:4vesta? This might also be a good time to add globe:dactyl, globe:eros, globe:gaspra, globe:ida, globe:itokawa, globe:lutetia, and globe:mathilde — all asteroids with named features. —Stepheng3 (talk) 16:12, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Has Dawn been marooned? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:24, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

The plan is for Dawn to escape after a year or so in orbit. —Stepheng3 (talk) 15:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Coordinates overwritten in the title line.

A discussion started here and continues here, about coordinates being overwritten in the title line. Stepheng3 mentioned Wikipedia:Database reports/Articles containing overlapping coordinates as being partial solution. Many articles transclude infoboxes that use {{Infobox coord}} that might no be included in that report. I thinking that, if all the sub-templates, such as {{Coord/display/inline,title}}, which write to the title line, were to generate an identifiable HTML comment in the article markup, then the problem could be traced using a regular expression. –droll [chat] 04:43, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

The database report page says that it checks for "Articles that contain {{Coord/display/inline,title}} and {{Coord/display/title}}". So is it true that it misses articles that use {{Coord/display/inline,title}} twice? –droll [chat] 06:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

@Droll: yes. —Stepheng3 (talk) 06:44, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

After some thought, my solution is not possibly. There would have to be something identifiable in the HTML. –droll [chat] 07:16, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

The title coord uses the ID attribute to position itself. Simply download the HTML and count the instances of id="coordinates" (HTML spec says we can have only one, btw). It's a very simple program and I've done something similar in JavaScript. Now there are 695,341 articles with coordinates, if we checked all at the rate of 1 article/second (not logged in) it would take us 8 days. Workable, but less than ideal when somebody asks to update the list already. — Dispenser 05:57, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

CatScan equivalent of the DBR. — Dispenser 06:07, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion: Manual of Style (road junction lists)

Discussion: Should Manual of Style (road junction lists) advise people to use {{Coord}}, if they are adding coordinates to articles about roads? Please discuss at Sub-section on coordinate templates. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Multiple Coord Tags Per Article - Bad Idea?

Having more than one co-ord tag per article, see e.g. Ben Nevis, introduces an intersting problem. Several people, including myself, are building geo-located indexes of wikipedia. We currently have no way of knowing which co-ord tag to use. My scripts ended up using the wrong one, and placing Ben-Nevis into Svalbard area. Should we prefer a new page for the Ben Nevis in Svalbard, to keep 1 coord tag per page? Or should there be some tag on Coord to say "primary"? WillSmith (London) (talk) 17:26, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

The title coordinates, if any, should be the primary ones, as is the case with Ben Nevis. In order to make use of inline coordinates, you must consider the context in which they occur. —Stepheng3 (talk) 17:55, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Type: sport ?

How about a type:sport? We have edu, glacier, landmark, river etc. What would a ice rink be? An public tennis courts? WillSmith (London) (talk) 17:27, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

The documentation indicates type:landmark for buildings that are neither schools nor railway stations. —Stepheng3 (talk) 17:56, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of template:Shc

Another coordinate template, {{Shc}} has been nominated for deletion. Your input would be welcome. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:50, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Error with trailing ")"

Resolved

I find that there is an error probably due to this template. In the particular rendering I am using, a set of coordinates enclosed in parentheses displays the final right parenthesis on the following line
... Japanese destroyer Fujinami (11°22′N 126°22′E
),[1]

[Clarification inserted later: this is what the display looks like, the source text here is fudged to force this appearance.]

This displays differently in the preview; there is no break in the preview, and the "show location on an interactive map" icon is absent (shortening the line, probably the reason why it doesn't break). A particular version of the article makes this error manifest for me, but it will depend upon user settings. Pol098 (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

It looks fine to me on that page: I note that the above example has been doctored to force a line break. The {{coord}} template has not changed recently, and nor have subtemplates {{coord/display/inline,title}}, {{Coord/input/dm}}, {{Coord/link}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:14, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Should have said example above is to illustrate what it looks like, not replicate the problem; to do that I gave the article URL. I'm 100% certain that what I describe happened as stated (I repeated it several times, tried editing text, etc.); however when I go to the page now it doesn't break, in fact the coordinates now display at the start of a line. Either something was temporarily awry in my setup which sorted itself out on closing browser and rebooting, or I may have changed some setting. Anyway, nothing to see here. Pol098 (talk) 20:13, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

About type parameter

Hello, I just like to know if is there a pages for requesting about new types. On the French wikipedia we use the same types than English one. I wonder if there in somewhere a coordination page about types. 87.91.219.55 (talk) 18:33, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry that was me Otourly (talk) 20:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

add display category "section"

Sometimes an article has sections for several distinct geographic locations, for example an article about a coalfield might list 3 or 4 collieries, each with a section heading. It might be useful to display the location of each colliery to the right of the section heading line, just as an article relating to a location has it shown to the right of the article heading. At present, the best alternative I can think of is to place the co-ord template in parentheses at the first mention inside the section of the location name. cf Gleision Colliery for an example. Including the co-ord template in the section heading is problematical for TOC generation. DMcMPO11AAUK/Talk/Contribs 18:56, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

What datum?

This question is inspired by Wikipedia:Help desk#on what ellipsoid are the coordinates of Wikipedia? In what datum should coordinates be stated? WGS 84? Shouldn't this be stated in the documentation? Jc3s5h (talk) 18:15, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

See the third box in the "Quick how to" on the template page. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:34, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

RFC on coordinates in highway articles

There is currently a discussion taking place at WT:HWY regarding the potential use of coordinates in highway articles. Your input is welcomed. --Rschen7754 01:42, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The proposal would change the MoS to prohibit the use of coordinates in articles about highways (aka roads/ motorways). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:25, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

ONE of the proposals would. Editors are free to offer their own proposals. How dare you accuse Rschen of canvassing because of your misinterpretation of the word "potential", yet post something completely non-neutral already declaring a anti-coord motive on the coord template page. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:26, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion to add functionality to populate a couple categories

Based on a recent bot request there seems to be a need to add some functionality to this template to categorize some of the articles for tracking and maintenance reasons.

1. A new category to identify articles that do not have |display= with title, inline or inline,title set.
2. A new category to identify articles that have multiple coord templates
3. A new category to identify articls with multiple coord templates and do not have |display= with title, inline or inline,title set.

Does anyone have any concerns about doing this? --Kumioko (talk) 20:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not difficult to categorise based on the lack of a value for |display= in a {{coord}}. You just need to add code like this to the {{coord}} template:

{{#if: {{{display|}}} | | [[Category:Coord templates without display parameter]] }}

What is much more difficult is to detect multiple uses. There is a report Wikipedia:Database reports/Articles containing overlapping coordinates which lists articles having two or more {{coord}} which specify one or another of |display=title |display=inline,title or |display=title,inline, that is, there are two or more {{coord}} (one of which is usually in the infobox) which are trying to put coordinates at the same position at upper right. The report is bot-updated weekly (and I usually stay on top of it), and I'm sure that if it were possible to do this by categorisation, it would be. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:47, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

What use would a category to track non-uses of parameter display= of {{coord}}? Whenever I come across the construction |display=inline, I remove it for being useless and bloating the wikitext. (I don't make such edits solely for that purpose; only if I encounter such while making other changes.) —EncMstr (talk) 22:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

If there is no |display= parameter at all, this is indeed exactly the same as if |display=inline had been specified. But giving |display= without also giving a value is not the same - it throws no error but instead creates a redlink in the page, Template:Coord/display/. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:43, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I thought I understood template parameter parsing well enough to state that the template cannot tell the difference, but sure enough, {{coord|12.345|54.321|display=|name=some name}} gives 12.345°N 54.321°E / 12.345; 54.321 (some name) as a result. Perhaps that particular case—and all other pathological uses—should cause categorization, not legitimate and proper instances? These mistakes can be found at Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Coord/display/. —EncMstr (talk) 23:16, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Heres the problem we are currenltly having. The only way to determine which articles match one of the three criteria I specified above is to use AWB or something to crawl through and scan every single one for what your looking for. If we had a category that said if it did not, or had multiples of the Coord template, we could easily pull them in and work with them to fix it. As it is there are hundreds of articles that need the display parameter in the thousands that have the Coord template and its hard to program a bot to know which one to tag with the parameter on the page when multiple Coord templates appear on the page, so I need to factor them out, so they can be checked manually. Its not a requirement to do this mind you but it will save several hours of the app having to scroll through and me having to manually pull out the ones I don't want the bot to touch. --Kumioko (talk) 14:56, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

discussion of interest

There's a new discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates about a GeoData extension being developed at WMF which may be of interest to users of {{Coord}}. Please join the discussion there. —Stepheng3 (talk) 21:45, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Martian coordinates problem

Can anyone see what's wrong with the coordinates in the infobox here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

 Done There is a line break between globe: and mars. Somebody else removed the whole thing; but I have restored it, having also removed the line break. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:56, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I don't now how I missed that. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:21, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Add "text" parameter

hello,

I know it was previously discussed, in 2007 and 2011. I find a "text" parameter, like in the German version, interesting and useful, so I propose to add it here. In eg [2] I prefer the German version with the possibility to pattern random text. Compare this with the English article, and I am sure the majority prefer the first. It is more appealing and informative for newbies, who don't know what to do with those coordinates; there are simply uninteresting for most of the readers. Regards.♫GoP♫_T^C_N 10:11, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you; no. Coordinates are encyclopedic data, and should be displayed to our users. The German article also breaches accessibility guidelines, by using the same text to link to different targets. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:33, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Conflicting title display

Please note that the new {{AttachedKML}} uses the title display, which conflicts with {{Coord}}'s, and would prevent both templates from being used in that way, on the same article. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I think there are several issues here. First I would like to recommend adding a category to identify which articles with the Coord template don't use the display parameter. That will help identify the ones that need to have it added and which ones need to be checked against other templates like this one. Second, I think we need to rename this template to something a bit more insightful, third, given that the Attached KML template allows Coord routes I think it should be used for things like roads instead of the Coord template. I think it would also be possible to merge the logic of the 2 into one template so that we could use the Coord template and then have a parameter for this logic (like Route) --Kumioko (talk) 12:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

AttachedKML copies the same coding as coord, so as long as both don't vie for the title position, there is no issue. The solution is to make it so that AttachedKML can pass its centroid to mapping services to display the wiki logo at that point. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 12:55, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

As the two templates cover interrelated information and (if used with "title") are currently mutually exclusive, I think there is a very strong case for them merging, i.e. adding the new AttachedKML parameters to those already in Coord. That way, there can be no display conflict and the KML functionality would easier for editors to discover. I've commented further at Template talk:AttachedKML#Integrating KML with Wikipedia. — Richardguk (talk) 13:59, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Needless complication. This has a different function than coord so it should be maintained as a separate template, at least as its being developed. If it's placed into coord, WP:HRT comes into play and it becomes a courtroom drama to make any changes. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:06, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not as familiar with coordinates and how they work on WP as some so you'll have to break this down for me. How is it different. It seems like Coord is for 1 point and Attached KML is for multiple points with links to Google and Bing. Is that right? I admit that they might be somewhat different but they are similar enough in form and function that it "might" be useful. --Kumioko (talk) 14:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Coord takes a latitude and longitude and produces links to map sites. Attached KML takes the content of a KML file (which can be produced with GIS software or Google Earth using a series of connected points) and produces a single set of links to google and bing that displays that line. The KML can be customized to include multiple lines or various colours (networks), individual points on the line can be tagged with labels and has already been implemented in its basic form into the WikiMiniAtlas (the globe icons). - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:56, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Floydian: I readily agree that we've had more than enough drama! And it certainly makes sense to develop new functionality without frequent changes to a template in such widespread use. But worth bearing in mind at this prototyping stage the potential benefits of avoiding inconsistencies in the new code that might cause needless compromises in future. Also, worth explaining prominently in the documentation the developmental status of {{AttachedKML}}, especially now that a broader range of editors are being encouraged to use it (e.g. at Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Maps task force/Tutorial‎#Creating a KML file). — Richardguk (talk) 14:31, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

The two templates are not mutually exclusive, and do not provide the same functionality. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:00, 9 February 2012 (UTC)