Template talk:Cite thesis/Archive 1

Archive 1

Documetation sucks

The documentation for this template sucks. It contains a flat-out falsehood: PhD thesis are are published, at least at reputable US universities. Also, the examples use undocumented parameters. --Jc3s5h (talk) 01:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Theses aren't published in the sense of "Made commercially available for sale." Nor are they given ISBNs. Nor are they purchasable through a publisher. Nor are they issued by a publisher. Utterance, made available and publication are all separate things. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

They are indeed published in the sense of "made commercially available for sale". Pop on over to http://www.proquest.com/en-US/products/brands/pl_umidp.shtml and buy one today. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

OCLC code

I added code that I believe functions correctly to display the OCLC when there is a thesis cited and one is included. -- Scarpy (talk) 08:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Should OCLC come between Publisher and Pages? Fifelfoo (talk) 08:49, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

After pages? -- Scarpy (talk) 23:42, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Trying to add support for ref parameter

I've tried to add support for a ref parameter (as is used in the other citation templates). However, my code does not appear to work:
{{#if {{{ref|}}}|id="{{anchorencode:{{{ref}}}}}"}}
Could someone take a look at it and fix it if possible? Thanks. Kaldari (talk) 22:26, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Seems to work. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:21, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I just fixed it. Sorry I forgot to update the thread. Kaldari (talk) 19:26, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Redundant

This template appears to duplicate the intent of {{Cite journal}}, which is for "references to articles in magazines and academic journals and for academic papers." There used to be a separate {{cite paper}} that was merged into {{cite journal}} about a year ago. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:09, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how I can properly cite a thesis using {{Cite journal}}. In particular thesis titles are neither italicized nor put in quotation marks. Also is customary to follow the thesis title with what type of thesis it is, for example "(PhD thesis)". Is there a way to accomplish these two things using {{Cite journal}}? Kaldari (talk) 17:44, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe I have ever cited a thesis— what style would it use? Chicago, Vancouver or what? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:05, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The style is chosen for the article, and everything cited follows the same style. So if the thesis is cited in an article that uses Chicago style, so would the thesis cite. If the thesis is cited in an article that uses APA style, then it uses APA style. I've been told that originally the cite xxx templates were modeled on the APA style, so I guess that is what this template should strive to follow. --Jc3s5h (talk) 18:13, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the {{cite xxx}} series should be Chicago APA. A quick search shows that Chicago italicizes the title for thesis or dissertations.[1][2][3] ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:25, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Related discussion here: Template talk:Citation#Adding ref support to the Cite thesis template. In summary, I think we could simply use {{cite book}} or {{citation}} if only we had an extra parameter that we could use the specify the type of the work (e.g., "type=PhD thesis"). Then the formatting would be consistent with what is produced by other cite xxx templates. — Miym (talk) 18:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The cite xxx templates look nothing like Chicago. --Jc3s5h (talk) 18:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

A big oops on my part; I meant APA. The linked examples are for APA. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:07, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

So you can't use {{cite journal}} - so what, can't {{cite book}} work? Why is this template necessary? ··gracefool☺ 23:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Can't use cite book unless this proposal is implemented. Kaldari (talk) 23:24, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

{{cite book}} may be usable without modification. See my last comment at Template talk:Citation/core#Proposal to add a "type" parameter. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:38, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Making thesis titles italicized (and possibly migrating to citation/core)

The latest APA guide recommends italicizing the title of a thesis or dissertation. Also, this would facilitate eventually rewriting {{cite thesis}} with the citation/core codebase (or maybe merging with {{cite book}}). Not to mention the fact that it would help our references look more consistent. Any thoughts on this? Kaldari (talk) 04:19, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

We used to have {{cite paper}} for thesis and the like, and it was merged to {{cite journal}}. I wasn't involved in that, so I don't know the details and the discussion seems to be scattered. Other than the parenthetical paper type, what are the current differences? (Off to bed) ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 04:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The titles not being in italics. Kaldari (talk) 04:34, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Support at the very least the {{citation/core}} plan, if only for consistency of final appearance; but I would strong support a merge with either {{cite book}} or {{cite journal}}. We have too many cite templates as it is; the creation of this one as recently as 6 November 2009 escaped my notice at the time. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

A Manual for Writers of Research Papers, Theses, and Dissertations says thesis titles should be quoted, not italicized. I expect that it depends somewhat on the discipline. In academic disciplines like the sciences, where theses correspond roughly to journal articles, thesis titles are not italicized; in academic disciplines where the primary form of publication is the book, a thesis is sort of a book-in-waiting, and its title would be italicized. How about if we let the template-invoker decide whether the title deserves italicization? The NLM style guide gives a whole chapter to citing theses and dissertations, and I have my doubts as to whether this can be merged with other citation styles. Eubulides (talk) 20:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

A Manual for Writers of Research Papers, Theses, and Dissertations defines the Turabian style, which is a variant of Chicago; this is APA. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:02, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought the goal of the past few years was to consolidate citation styles (and templates) so we have more consistency across the project, not less. Kaldari (talk) 20:43, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

If this temples is intended to use APA format, then the only difference I see between thesis and journal is in the lack of a type field. This should be simple enough to add, either directly to the template or to the core. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I had originally used {{cite book}} and {{cite paper}} and then switched to {{cite thesis}} in several articles (some just recently) when I saw this template had been created. Adding a type field that can serve as a "degree" field in {{cite book}} to identify that a thesis/dissertation is being cited is good. Ideally I would also want to make use of accessdate, archivedate, and archiveurl fields for ones that are/were available online. -- Scarpy (talk) 14:04, 22r January 2010 (UTC)

See my last comment at Template talk:Citation/core#Proposal to add a "type" parameter. That concerns the possible use of the |other= field, which is present in both {{cite book}} and {{cite journal}}, but only documented in the former. It behaves in exactly the same fashion for both. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:30, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm reluctant to use the "other" param for this purpose without it being specifically documented for such use. Otherwise, I'm likely to end up with citations saying "(Other contributors: PhD Thesis)". Plus it's not good metadata practice to have ambiguous fields. Every parameter should have a specific purpose and be documented as such. Kaldari (talk) 05:47, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

docket

what is the docket parameter used for?  —Chris Capoccia ^T⁄_C 10:50, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Archiveurl required

Missing in action. If you can have a url parameter then you can archive it. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 16:30, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

{{cite book}} has all the same features as cite thesis, supports archiveurl, bibcode, ocolc and more. Cite thesis also uses a plain format for the title, where the citation/core templates use quotes or italics. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:24, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

The two templates are not interchangeable. Cite thesis has degree=, docket= but this is not available on the book cite. In addition it may create editor confusion to label a thesis as a book. Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 19:45, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Cite thesis

{{cite thesis |degree=Ph.D. |first=Arnold A |last=Ducklover title=On some aspects of Ducks |publisher=Duck University |docket=12345}}

Ducklover, Arnold A (1901). On some aspects of Ducks (Ph.D. thesis). Duck University. Docket 12345.

Cite book

{{cite book |type=Ph.D. thesis |first=Arnold A |last=Ducklover |title=On Some Aspects of Ducks |publisher=Duck University |id=Docket 12345}}

Ducklover, Arnold A (1901). On Some Aspects of Ducks (Ph.D. thesis). Duck University. Docket 12345.

Never have figure out what docket is for, but it can be easily done with cite book. AS to the template name, that is really a minor issue. BTW, {{cite paper}} used to be used for thesis, but it was merged to {{cite journal}}. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 20:20, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I tried this out but the thesis has a chapter and changing cite thesis to cite book indicates that thesis is the name of the chapter not the name of the title.

• Walton, Elizabeth M. (2006). "II. Literature Review". Using Remote Sensing and Geographical Information Science to Predict and Delineate Critical Habitat for the Bog Turtle, Glyptemys muhlenbergii (PDF) (M.A. thesis). University of North Carolina at Greensboro. Retrieved 2010-04-09.
• Walton, Elizabeth M. (2006). "II. Literature Review". Using Remote Sensing and Geographical Information Science to Predict and Delineate Critical Habitat for the Bog Turtle, Glyptemys muhlenbergii (PDF) (M.A. thesis). University of North Carolina at Greensboro. Retrieved 2010-04-09.

Regards, SunCreator ^(talk) 22:01, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Chapter is a bit iffy for an the e-document in one chunk. Where it is separate chunks, then |url= would be used for the entire document and |chapterurl= for the chapter. It makes a cleaner cite if you use |pages=

{{cite book |type=M.A. thesis |title=Using Remote Sensing and Geographical Information Science to Predict and Delineate Critical Habitat for the Bog Turtle, ''Glyptemys muhlenbergii'' |pages=6–31 |url=http://libres.uncg.edu/ir/uncg/f/umi-uncg-1170.pdf |format=PDF |last=Walton |first=Elizabeth M. |year=2006 |publisher=University of North Carolina at Greensboro |accessdate=2010-04-09 |ref=harv}}

Walton, Elizabeth M. (2006). Using Remote Sensing and Geographical Information Science to Predict and Delineate Critical Habitat for the Bog Turtle, Glyptemys muhlenbergii (PDF) (M.A. thesis). University of North Carolina at Greensboro. pp. 6–31. Retrieved 2010-04-09. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

BTW: By using |last= and |first= and setting |ref=harv, the anchor is automatically set to CITEREFWalton2006, so one less template. Cite thesis has a |ref=, but it isn't documented and is doesn't have a harv feature; gotta see how it works. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 10:33, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Update to citation/core

Archived content

Sandbox version now uses {{citation/core}}; this makes Cite report compliant with the other templates in Citation Style 1 (cite web, book, journal, etc.). All features of {{cite journal}} are supported including author.

Cite thesis

{{cite thesis |degree=Ph.D. |first=Arnold A |last=Ducklover |title=On some aspects of Ducks |publisher=Duck University |date=1901}}

Ducklover, Arnold A (1901). On some aspects of Ducks (Ph.D. thesis). Duck University.

Cite book

{{cite book|type=Ph.D. thesis |first=Arnold A |last=Ducklover |title=On some aspects of Ducks |publisher=Duck University |year=1901}}

Ducklover, Arnold A (1901). On some aspects of Ducks (Ph.D. thesis). Duck University.

Cite thesis/sandbox

{{cite thesis/sandbox |degree=Ph.D. |first=Arnold A |last=Ducklover |title=On some aspects of Ducks|publisher=Duck University |year=1901}}

Ducklover, Arnold A (1901). On some aspects of Ducks (Ph.D. thesis). Duck University. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

The template already uses {{citation core}} btw... Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 16:56, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

You are right. I updated Template:Citation/core/doc to reflect that. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Documentation updated. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:44, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

"author" parameter

The usage examples section shows an "author" parameter but the description section does not have that parameter. A brief glance at the template suggests that maybe an "author" parameter exists (I'm not 100% because I never bother to get good at the template syntax). It's be great if somebody could made the example and documentation consistent. Jason Quinn (talk) 01:53, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Documentation updated ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 02:14, 15 February 2012 (UTC)