Template talk:Cite LSA

Book with chapters that have each a different author

Can you help me and explain how to cite a chapter that has its own authors in a multi-chapter book? For example, I have a chapter about piRNA in a "collection of invited, original, peer-reviewed chapters" i.e. a book. How do I cite the chapter? Chapter in question and the book in question. Thank you. --Helixitta (talk) 14:32, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Proposed moving my LSA citation template draft to here

Extended content

I've been working on implementing the LSA citation style in my sand box and got it working. I decided to start from the ground up, as the template hasn't been modified since 2012 and I could barely figure out the source. I proposed the move here if anyone finds this controversial, but I didn't expect it to be. Wugapodes (talk) 06:55, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Wugapodes, nice work. Do you have a page of test cases to show the error conditions generated by missing required parameters? Do these error conditions put the article in a maintenance category such as "Articles with Cite LSA template errors"? A possible bug: I noticed that the last example on the documentation page shows {{{title}}}. It appears that when there is no title, the title variable call is displayed instead of being omitted. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:59, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Jonesey. My sandbox has some test cases that I used while drafting it: User:Wugapodes/sandbox. It does not have a maintenance category, I'm rather unsure of how to do that as this is my first template. Do you know of any good documentation on that topic? What you pointed out is definitely a bug that I plan to fix. I left it in the documentation so that I not only remember to fix it, but also know when it's fixed.Wugapodes (talk) {{Birth date and age}} has some basic error checking with an error category, but it's doing some math, which is not quite what you want. {{Infobox character}} and {{E}} are better examples. I usually figure out how to do something by looking at the code for an existing page or template that does what I want. Let me know if you want some help. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:09, 28 March 2015 (UTC) I noticed that most citation templates use Lua, which I'm familiar with. I think it would make this easier, especially for maintenance in the future (matching those curly braces is really hard after a few nests, and comments are difficult). I might create Module:Cite_LSA and have a lua script to do it as the conditionals are more robust. Thoughts? Wugapodes (talk) 01:30, 29 March 2015 (UTC) It doesn't seem worth doing for a template that is used in exactly two articles. If you're looking for a Lua project, merging the age templates presents an excellent programming challenge. See this discussion. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:25, 29 March 2015 (UTC) Recent edits to this citation template have eliminated backwards compatibility, breaking existing transclusions of the template. See, for example, Talk:Wolf Ladejinsky and Talk:May Chin and Talk:Babuza language. The examples on this Talk page have also stopped working. The edits also completely broke harv referencing in the two articles that used this citation template. Those articles have had the Cite LSA template removed. One of them is an FA. I'm thinking that maybe this template should be restored to its previous state to allow transclusions to work again. If a new template is desired that looks and performs differently, a new template should be developed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC) My thoughts on the matter are that a template titled Cite LSA should make citations using the LSA style which is different from the harv style. If pages would like to use the previous incarnation to cite in harv style, that should be a seperate template with a more appropriate name, but from my understanding, that was tried, proposed for deletion, and renamed to this for some reason. The problem with backward compatibility, which I looked into when deciding to overhaul or edit, was that the previous incarnation used different logic and different keywords for different uses, namely, citing one author was {{Cite LSA|First=...|Last=...|...}} but citing more than one author was {{Cite LSA|First1=...|Last1=...|...}} which is not only confusing for users but makes code maintenance a nightmare and is inconsistent with arguments used by other citation templates. I chose, pragmatically, that a more elegant template which does what it is supposed to do but breaks a few pages that used it is better than a template that doesn't do what it says it does. Wugapodes (talk) I agree with your initial thought and with your overall logic about consistency with other citation templates, but the effect of your choices was to break existing uses of the template. You did not have consensus to do that. You posted a notification above, posted an "uncontroversial move request", and then the template was merged by Anthony Appleyard about twelve hours later. You are correct that the previous version of the template used different parameters. That is why the existing uses of the template are broken. At this point, the right thing for you to do would be to edit the existing uses of the template (it's only "a few pages", as you say above) so that they contain the new template parameters. Please do so. I scanned through them, and most of them just need their parameters changed. A few others should have the "harvrefcol" citation examples removed, since this citation is no longer a harv-style reference. If you are unwilling to fix these pages, please revert your changes to the template. I have pasted a list of pages below that need to be fixed. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:16, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Talk:Babuza language Talk:Gelding Talk:Heinrich Krampf Talk:Hubert Maga/GA1 Talk:May Chin Talk:Taiwanese aborigines/Archive 4 Talk:Wolf Ladejinsky Template talk:Cite LSA User talk:Blueshirts User talk:CJLL Wright/Archive XV User talk:Roger Davies/Archive 2009 User talk:Underbar dk/Archive08 User:Dapi89/Sandbox User:Jpech95/taiwan/Taiwan User:Sanfy/Mangalorean Catholics User:Sanfy/Sandbox2 User:Terentesangre User:Whackorobin/Templates Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Endangered languages Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Three Kingdoms/Archive 1 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hugo Ruf (soldier) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2009 March 16 Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Featured log/May 2007 Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Taiwanese aborigines Wikipedia:Harvard citation template examples Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 78 So all of them use {{harvrefcol}} and half of them are archives which I'm not comfortable editing because they're, you know, archives. I'm more inclined to move the older version back to {{harvrefcol}} and deprecate it so that historical usages are maintained, and so that editors of this template don't have to worry about how changes will affect usages of template for a completely different style. If that sounds like an okay idea, should I put a post on WP:RFD? Wugapodes (talk) 20:09, 4 April 2015 (UTC) That sounds like a sensible way through this problem. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:59, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Follow-up: the RFD was closed with a consensus to restore {{harvrefcol}} to its previous state in order to resolve the above problems. I believe that I have carried out that consensus decision. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:54, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Period

In the second example in the documentation, should the citation not end with a period? Is that an issue with the code, or is it intentional? Graham (talk) 04:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Fixed, I believe. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:30, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Huh, that was quirky. Thanks for fixing it, Jonesey! Graham (talk) 05:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Questions

Why are people using this template in non-linguistic articles? Also, shouldn't it support things like |pmc= and such considering that we are a website and not a printed article: LSA stuff followed by links? Lastly, doesn't the LSA style sheet's small caps everywhere violat the wikipedia style guide? AManWithNoPlan (talk) 15:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

@AManWithNoPlan: See WP:CITEVAR. Editors are free to use whatever citation style they choose so long as it is consistent and sufficient to identify the necessary source. The template supports a |url= field and |accessdate= field that are not well documented (I'll add them); you're free to add |pmc= support if |url= is insufficient. This citation style is explicitly mentioned in MOS:SMALLCAPS as one in which small caps should be used. See also WP:NOTBURO. Wugapodes [t^hɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 00:52, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 01:02, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I share the same question about supporting identifiers, especially the DOI. Maybe this can be made to depend on {{cite journal}} so you don't have to redo all the logic? Nemo 17:57, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

@Nemo bis: I've added |doi= support, it supersedes the url parameter if both are provided. It automatically adds the 'https://dx.doi.org/' to the front of the DOI so the input should just be the identifier. Wug·a·po·des​ 05:57, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Pointlessly requiring accessdate

In the following citation

• Prado, José Luis; María Teresa Alberdi, and Vicente José Di Martino. 2012. Équidos y gonfoterios del Pleistoceno Tardío del sudeste de la Provincia de Buenos Aires. Ameghiniana 49(4). 623–641. .

The accessdate should not be mandatory. @Trappist the monk:, can you help here? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:06, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

The identifiers should also be displayed. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:07, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I can, but shouldn't you be asking Wugapodes?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

It's LUA and citations, you're the expert on that. If @Wugapodes: can help, that's also fine by me. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 15:36, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

 Done — Wug·a·po·des​ 00:53, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Authorlink

Unlike almost all other {{cite}} templates I know, {{cite LSA}} doesn't accept an |authorlink= field. This leads to ugly-looking results, as in e.g. Los Bastos Formation; where P. J. Currie has to be linked as P. J. Currie. Narky Blert (talk) 16:17, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

This problem is also visible at Antonio de Lebrija (conquistador), where linked author names create poorly formatted CITEREF values for sfn/harv template use. – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:25, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

issue throws a weird error

Supported by the template but wrong

• {{cite LSA |last=Bertrand |first=Ornella C. |last2=Flynn |first2=John J. |last3=[[Darin A. Croft|Croft]] |first3=Darin A. |last4=Wyss |first4=André R. |year=2012 |title=Two new taxa (Caviomorpha, Rodentia) from the early Oligocene Tinguiririca fauna (Chile) |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262523787_Two_New_Taxa_Caviomorpha_Rodentia_from_the_Early_Oligocene_Tinguiririca_Fauna_Chile |journal=[[American Museum Novitates]] |volume=3750 |pages=1–36 |accessdate=2019-02-15}}
• Bertrand, Ornella C.; John J. Flynn; Darin A. Croft, and André R. Wyss. 2012. Two new taxa (Caviomorpha, Rodentia) from the early Oligocene Tinguiririca fauna (Chile). American Museum Novitates 3750. 1–36. Accessed 2019-02-15.

Correct, but not supported by the template

• {{cite LSA |last=Bertrand |first=Ornella C. |last2=Flynn |first2=John J. |last3=[[Darin A. Croft|Croft]] |first3=Darin A. |last4=Wyss |first4=André R. |year=2012 |title=Two new taxa (Caviomorpha, Rodentia) from the early Oligocene Tinguiririca fauna (Chile) |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262523787_Two_New_Taxa_Caviomorpha_Rodentia_from_the_Early_Oligocene_Tinguiririca_Fauna_Chile |journal=[[American Museum Novitates]] |issue=3750 |pages=1–36 |accessdate=2019-02-15}}
• Bertrand, Ornella C.; John J. Flynn; Darin A. Croft, and André R. Wyss. 2012. Two new taxa (Caviomorpha, Rodentia) from the early Oligocene Tinguiririca fauna (Chile). American Museum Novitates (3750). 1–36. Accessed 2019-02-15.

This is really weird. Why isn't issue supported? Using volume in the template works, but many things (like American Museum Novitates) don't have volumes, they have issues. This should be fixed. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 04:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

This template does not support |issue=, probably because the style sheet calls for the volume number only. I have put a note in the documentation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:02, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: I know that it doesn't support issue. The point is that it should. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:49, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Why should it support something (|issue=) that the style guide appears to exclude? How should |issue= be rendered? Is the template supposed to conform to LSA style or not? Or am I misreading the style guide? – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Issues are not volumes. If LSA only supports the display of volume, and not of issues, it would be the height of stupidly, giving that would mean that the correct display of the above would be

• Bertrand, Ornella C.; John J. Flynn; Darin A. Croft, and André R. Wyss. 2012. Two new taxa (Caviomorpha, Rodentia) from the early Oligocene Tinguiririca fauna (Chile). American Museum Novitates. 1–36.

which would display no volume (since there are none), and no issues (since they don't want issues displayed). Maybe the solution here is to display issues instead of volumes when no volume is specified. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 19:38, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it is. I do not have any facility with Lua, unfortunately. What did the LSA tell you when you asked them about the stupidity of their style guide, or when you filed a bug against the current version? – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:53, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Update: The more I look, the more versions of the LSA style sheet that I find. Confusing. This one mentions issue numbers, as does the one linked from here. The latter shows the issue following the volume in parentheses with no space, e.g. "252(2)". Maybe all we need is a Lua programmer to add |issue= as shown in the style guide. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:01, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Could you add issue support per §15. Journal volume numbers. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:21, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Small caps should also be removed, per item 1 in that document. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:23, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The style sheet linked from the documentation page shows the small caps, FWIW. They are basically the whole point of this template. There is a bunch of discussion about it in this talk page's archives, IIRC. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:50, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

https://libguides.umw.edu/ld.php?content_id=54848671 explicitly disallows small caps and all examples lack small caps. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 13:01, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I saw that. The document linked from this template's documentation page links to guidance from the LSA itself, not to a possibly outdated PDF on a university library site. I suspect that the former is more authoritative. In any event, this template is primarily used in geology-related articles, where it should probably be converted to a more functional, MOS-compliant template, but playing CITEVAR games is not at the top of my list of priorities. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:32, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

It's the same unified style sheet that's available at https://www.linguisticsociety.org/resource/unified-style-sheet. Taking a look at their journals, this is the stylesheet they use.

Davidson, Kathryn; Gagne, Deanna (2022). ""More is up" for domain restriction in ASL". Semantics and Pragmatics. 15. doi:10.3765/sp.15.1.

Green, Christopher R.; Lampitelli, Nicola (2022). "Conditions on complex exponence: A case study of the Somali subject marker". Phonological Data and Analysis. 4 (4). doi:10.3765/pda.v4art4.63.

All citations have no caps, and they make use of issue numbers (thought not consistently), e.g.

Kadmon, Nirit & Fred Landman. 1993. Any. Linguistics and Philosophy 16(4). 353–422. https://doi.org/10.1007/bf00985272.

Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:43, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

https://www.linguisticsociety.org/ has a search function. I entered the quoted phrase "style sheet":

• Other Publications links to a 2007 style sheet https://www.linguisticsociety.org/sites/default/files/style-sheet_0.pdf – this may be the source for the University of Mary Washington style sheet that Editor Headbomb linked https://libguides.umw.edu/ld.php?content_id=54848671
• Proceedings of the LSA Accepting Papers for 2022 Edition links to Instructions to Authors which links to google drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r1YkBGcX7b7obNe0hLDrbJSSUTfNrFo1/view
• CELxJ (Committee of Editors of Linguistics Journals) Documents links to two versions of what appears to be the 2007 style sheet:
  • https://www.linguisticsociety.org/files/UnifiedStyleSheet.pdf
  • https://www.linguisticsociety.org/files/USS-NoComments.pdf
• Publishing How To's for Students links to an undated style sheet: https://www.linguisticsociety.org/sites/default/files/LANGUAGE_journal_style_sheet.pdf – appears to be the same as the style sheet linked from the template doc: https://www.linguisticsociety.org/sites/default/files/style-sheet.pdf
• Unified Style Sheet links to the 2007 style sheet https://www.linguisticsociety.org/files/style-sheet_0.pdf

Except for the google drive and UMW links, all of the above links are at linguisticsociety.org. Because, at least from one side of their collective mouth, LSA says don't use small caps and shows how issue numbers should be rendered, it would seem that it is permissible to make the requested changes. But, because the request has been disputed, I won't until the disputation is resolved.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:04, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Trappist, for digging into the details. My assessment of the above is that the 2007 style sheet or the Proceedings style sheet, both of which advise against caps, are the style guides that the LSA wants people to use. I am particularly persuaded by the Proceedings style sheet, which applies to current publications. I retract my assertion that we should follow the guidance in the document linked from this template's documentation, since that style guide appears to be an outlier. I support removal of small caps. I also think that we should display the issue number per the instructions in the Proceedings style guide, i.e. "Vol#(Issue#)". And finally, we should link to the most recent version of the LSA's style guide, presumably the Proceedings guide, from this template's documentation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:49, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, |volume= and |issue= together, |volume= only, |issue= only, and both omitted are now supported by Module:Cite LSA/sandbox; see Template:Cite LSA/testcases § test |volume= and |issue= in journal LSA cites. This 'fixes' one of the lua script errors in the ~/testcases. I also did a small bit of cleanup to get rid of global variables which should not be used in any module more complex than 'hello world'.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:07, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Looks pretty good. There is a minor issue (no pun intended) of an extra space after the journal name in the "no volume or issue" case.

I have set the author name style to normal and updated the style sheet link on the template's doc page. At this point, I wonder whether this template is significantly different enough from the CS1 templates to warrant keeping it around. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:40, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I have fixed that but don't yet know know if I've broken access date handling for non-journal cites (the 'Accessed <date>' string was assembled in three separate places when it really can/should be done only once. I'll test that later.

And yes, I've been wondering whether it really is necessary to keep this template for the same reasons.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Now the space between title and journal is missing. No rest for the good guys. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:11, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, ok, fixed that and I've implemented very crude error messaging to quash the lua script errors.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:28, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

The styling of author names (and publisher if no authors) is provided by classes cslsa-authors and cslsa-pub-no-auth in Module:Cite LSA/styles.css. I have removed the <span>...</span> tags that used those class attributes from Module:Cite LSA/sandbox so that the classes are no longer used. In Template:Cite_LSA/testcases, author names are no longer rendered with small caps.

There is only one error message emitted by this template which renders in red: Missing author name. If the changes in the sandbox are made live, we should change the error message color to the standard color #d33: Missing author name in ~/styles.css.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:51, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

and this discussion faded from my watchlist and from my memory...

Module and css have been updated.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:31, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Odd behaviour with short form refs

It doesn't appear that short form refs work correctly with this template. I came across it while fixing a no target error at Boreostemma. The no target error has been resolved, but the link to the cite doesn't actually work. Clicking the link in "Carlini et al. 2008, p. 142." (currently ref[1]), doesn't forward the user to the relevant cite in the Bibliography section. Has anyone else come across this issue? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 11:48, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

That's because LSA templates only use the first authors to generate anchors. It's silly, and should probably be changed. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:15, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: thoughts? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:17, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I have adapted some code from Module:Citation/CS1 and stuck it in Module:Cite LSA/sandbox. You can see the result at the top of Template:Cite LSA/sandbox

The Lua script errors are not caused by my change.

I guess I gotta wonder why anyone would use {{cite LSA}} to cite a non-linguistic journal ... Important things like doi:10.1007/BF02988405 aren't supported by this template.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:12, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

That works in the Boreostemma example. Unfortunately we can't ask the article creator, as after a spate of redacted edit summaries they are no longer with us. Seems all the articles they create were in a similar vein (fossils and archeology in SA), and all used Cite LSA. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 17:16, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm not clear. Are you saying that the sandbox code only works sometimes? Examples of it not working?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:20, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Sorry ambiguous language. I've only had the chance to test the example at Boreostemma, that test was successful. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 17:32, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I've had a chance to test some more, and they've all worked correctly. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 19:47, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Checking Boreostemma, changing the ref to "Carlini 2008" fixes the link issue, but then causes a false positive. So every use of this template with SFRs would have to be whitelisted individually, which is a massive pain -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 12:22, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

What false positive are you're talking about? A bigger issue IMO is the omission of the et al. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 12:28, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The error messages tracked by Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors Either way I think we both want proper anchors produced. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 12:42, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

For reference it seems most articles that use this cite are for fossil records or archeology, and even where it's not every cite I can find was added by the same user. Apparently they were just very fond of it, whatever the subject. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 19:53, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Module updated.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:32, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

publisher messed up

Here's an example from Utaetus:

{{cite LSA |last=Powell |first=J.E. |last2=Babot |first2=M.J. |last3=García López |first3=D.A. |last4=Deraco |first4=M.V. |last5=Herrera |first5=C. |year=2011 |title=Eocene vertebrates of northwest Argentina: annotated list in J. Salfity, R. A. Marquillas (eds.), Cenozoic Geology of the Central Andes of Argentina |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271445366_Eocene_vertebrates_of_northwestern_Argentina_annotated_list |publisher=SCS Publisher |pages=349–370 |access-date=2019-04-13}}

Powell, J.E.; M.J. Babot; D.A. García López; M.V. Deraco, and C. Herrera. 2011. Eocene vertebrates of northwest Argentina: annotated list in J. Salfity, R. A. Marquillas (eds.), Cenozoic Geology of the Central Andes of Argentina, 349–370. SCS Publisher. Accessed 2019-04-13.

The publisher parameter is not working correctly. There's no space before it and two periods after. —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I have hacked Module:Cite LSA a bit so that |access-date= (with the hyphen) is supported; the extra terminal dot is removed; a space is inserted when rendering |publisher= for the book section of the module only.

But, your example jams the chapter title, the editor name-list, and the book title into |title= – when I first read that 'title', I thought it was the title of a review article. Separating them into their appropriate parameters, you get something that looks like this:

{{cite LSA |last=Powell |first=J.E. |last2=Babot |first2=M.J. |last3=García López |first3=D.A. |last4=Deraco |first4=M.V. |last5=Herrera |first5=C. |year=2011 |chapter=Eocene vertebrates of northwest Argentina: annotated list |editorfirst1=J. |editorlast1=Salfity |editorfirst2=R. A. |editorlast2=Marquillas |title=Cenozoic Geology of the Central Andes of Argentina |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271445366_Eocene_vertebrates_of_northwestern_Argentina_annotated_list |publisher=SCS Publisher |pages=349–370 |accessdate=2019-04-13}}

Powell, J.E.; M.J. Babot; D.A. García López; M.V. Deraco, and C. Herrera. 2011. Eocene vertebrates of northwest Argentina: annotated list. Cenozoic Geology of the Central Andes of Argentina ed. by J. Salfity, and R. A. Marquillas, 349–370. SCS Publisher. Accessed 2019-04-13.

Consider rewriting your example.

I notice that there isn't, but should be, a space between the chapter title and the book title... Perhaps I'll fix that later.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:54, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Trappist the monk: Thank you for your work and for your comments on the jammed parameters. Worse than that, {{Cite LSA}} should be reserved for academic references in the field of linguistics, and this example reference is in the field of biology, so in Utaetus I changed {{Cite LSA}} to {{Cite journal}} and {{Cite book}} and un-jammed the parameters.

Template:Cite LSA has at least two more space-missing errors; see the examples in Template:Cite LSA/doc#Examples. In the first example, there's a space missing between the article title and the journal name. In the second example, there's a space missing between the pages and the place. —Anomalocaris (talk) 04:56, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I have fixed a few spacing errors in that Examples section by tweaking the module code. There is still a missing space and an extra full stop in the "Northington, Kasey" live module examples on the testcases page. I was not able to fix that problem easily; my guess is that something is being done out of order with |chapter=, so that when the chapter value is added to the citation, it is inserted incorrectly and the full stop intended for the chapter value is added after the access-date instead. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Missing space between rendered |chapter= title and |title= title fixed I think.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that I have fixed the double-full-stop after the access date. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Merge with Type 1 and Type 2 templates

This misbegotten template should never have been created.

• {{Cite web}} was created 7 December 2004.
• {{Cite journal}} was created 4 February 2005.
• {{Cite book}} was created 15 February 2006.
• {{Citation}} was created 15 November 2005.
• {{Cite LSA}} was created 24 September 2006.

Presumably, Type 1 templates were created because people wanted to facilitate standard appearances of footnotes. Presumbably, {{Citation}} was created because some people wanted one single template to do the work of many, so people wouldn't have to remember which template to use. The Type 1 and Type 2 templates display the same, except that Type 1 uses periods and capitals and Type 2 uses commas and not always capitals. But Type 1 templates can display like Type 2 by adding |mode=cs2, and Type 2 templates can display like type 1 by adding |mode=cs1. Along comes {{Cite LSA}}, which was created presumably in order to comply with Linguistic Society of America standards. Rather than creating this template, Type 1 and Type 2 templates should have been modified to allow |mode=LSA. At this point, we have skilled editors trying to address spacing issues, double periods, and parameters that users expect to work, such as |access-date=. Some day, Wikipedia will face the style requirements of another academic discipline, let's say, Bozoology. If that happens, rather than creating {{Cite bozo}}, we should just add functionality to |mode=bozo. Then we won't have to fuss with issues like, are parameters hyphenated or not. All of these issues have been solved. The only purpose of {{Cite LSA}} is to have slight changes in display. These changes should be handled on the output side of existing templates not by creating a whole new template. Let's merge {{Cite LSA}} with existing Type 1 and Type 2 templates, mark it as deprecated, and eventually get rid of it. —Anomalocaris (talk) 03:28, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

The timeline is considerably more complicated than the above summary hopes for. The first four templates were not converted into the more modern Lua versions that we have today until 2013. A bit later, this template was involved in a misguided merge with {{harvrefcol}}, which you can read about higher on this page and at this discussion. After that, I think everyone just got tired of the teapot-sized drama and walked away. Your idea may have merit, but someone would have to have the energy to add and test a bunch of new code to support just 1,200 articles, most of which could easily be using CS1 templates with little significant difference in the reference formatting (and much better error-checking). Clicking on a semi-random sample, I see a mix of CS1 and Cite LSA at Antonio de Nebrija, and probably unnecessary use of Cite LSA at Wilcox Group and hundreds of other geology articles. My preference would be to just get rid of it as redundant to the CS1 family of templates. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:46, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Jonesey95: Thank you for this explanation. I just edited 4 articles that wrongly used this template. Now there are 1221 articles transcluding the template, nearly all of them unrelated to linguistics. Not sure what I want to do now. —Anomalocaris (talk) 08:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

And the usually are full of non supported parameters and such, with no error checking to show that half the reference data is ignored. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 11:45, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

The user (Tisquesusa) responsible for creating/referencing many of these inclusions (everything formation and fault related) was banned in 2021. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 12:54, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Gadzooks, what a mess. Many of these articles use short references and a bibliography, with the access dates in the bibliography instead of in the references. And as far as I can tell, there's no proper way of using cite templates to display "et al" except by listing the authors you don't want to display along with |display-authors=. Some of these {{Cite LSA}} refs have markup like {{cite LSA |last=Weishampel |first=David B. et al ...}}, so I had to hunt down the book, copy in the full author list and add |display-authors=1. I spent almost an hour fixing Crato Formation, and that was after I had already fixed the same Weishampel reference somewhere else. —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:33, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Like this: {{cite book |last=Weishampel |first=David B. |display-authors= etal |title=Title}} → Weishampel, David B.; et al. Title. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:05, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Jonesey95, that's what I needed. —Anomalocaris (talk) 10:31, 14 May 2023 (UTC)