Template:Did you know nominations/Zygmunt Ajdukiewicz
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by BlueMoonset (talk) 05:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Zygmunt Ajdukiewicz edit
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... that award-winning realist artist Zygmunt Ajdukiewicz (pictured) illustrated the Imperial 24-volume encyclopedia sponsored by Prince Rudolf for the rest of his life?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Battle of Sidi Bou Othman.
- Comment: "5x" expansion: from 358 chars (without a single source) last edited by bot on November 22, 2012; to 2,257 chars of readable prose on December 11, 2012; with added infobox, gallery of works, and wp:rs citations.
Created/expanded by Poeticbent (talk). Self nom at 19:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
The hook is misleading. I read it that Ajdukiewicz worked on the encyclopedia for the rest of his life, when in fact it was Prince Rudolf who did the sponsoring, and died 17 years before the final volume was published. (Based on the timeline, it appears that Rudolf died before the artist became involved, and the artist lived another 11 years after the encyclopedia completed publication in 1906.) An ALT hook needs to be created, and the sentence in the article that includes "for the rest of his life" should probably be revised for clarity. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
- Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria died in 1889. He initiated the creation of the imperial encyclopedia three years before his own death. The printing of further volumes (24 in total) went on for 13 more years after his death, because the encyclopedia was published between 1886–1902 according to source. I suppose, what it means that the Prince paid for it, but didn't live long enough to see it finished. Meanwhile, Ajdukiewicz kept on illustrating and died in 1917. – What my hook was suppose to mean is that the Prince overlooked the project for three years period (i.e. for the rest of his own life... not for the rest of the painter's life). Can you please help me make it clearer? Poeticbent talk 00:58, 15 December 2012 (UTC) Please, see my two ALTs below:
- ALT1: ... that award-winning realist artist Zygmunt Ajdukiewicz
(pictured)illustrated the Imperial 24-volume encyclopedia initiated and sponsored by Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria?
- ALT2: ... that award-winning realist artist Zygmunt Ajdukiewicz
(pictured)illustrated the 24-volume encyclopedia of Austria-Hungary initiated by Prince Rudolf, but completed 13 years after his death?
ALT1's hook is verified and I prefer it to ALT2 so as to keep the attention on the new article (rather than on the Prince). I also added a wl to the encyclopedia (stub article) in ALT1. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
- Note: I have just pulled the portrait image from this nomination, because it seems clear that it is not a self-portrait of Ajdukiewicz, though definitely a portrait by him of a gentleman. As such, he is not being pictured. (See Talk:Zygmunt Ajdukiewicz for a more complete explanation.) It should also be pulled from the article's infobox, though it can be retained in the gallery of his work in the article. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- Classicist portrait paintings are never being left unnamed when they're being commissioned, unless the subject refuses or is unable to purchase the commissioned artwork. The cost to the artist and the labor are usually substantial. That's why there's a good probability that Ajdukiewicz painted himself in the year he died at the age of 55–56. That is roughly the age of a man in the painting... his all other portraits are clearly named, in the best interest of their subjects. Please note, "the gentleman" is not the actual name of the painting. It is only the source description of an unnamed portrait by a professional portrait artist. Painters travel with self portraits to prove their own abilities to prospective clients. Poeticbent talk 09:04, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- "Good probability" is not good enough: we need reliable sourcing here, and there doesn't seem to be any. If all his portraits are named, why does the first source have a portrait that is simply titled "Portret mężczyzny" from 1902? The article's (and originally this nomination's) attribution seems to be WP:SYNTH, and I don't see how it meets Wikipedia standards. I was about to promote this nomination, but I can't until this is settled. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- Classicist portrait paintings are never being left unnamed when they're being commissioned, unless the subject refuses or is unable to purchase the commissioned artwork. The cost to the artist and the labor are usually substantial. That's why there's a good probability that Ajdukiewicz painted himself in the year he died at the age of 55–56. That is roughly the age of a man in the painting... his all other portraits are clearly named, in the best interest of their subjects. Please note, "the gentleman" is not the actual name of the painting. It is only the source description of an unnamed portrait by a professional portrait artist. Painters travel with self portraits to prove their own abilities to prospective clients. Poeticbent talk 09:04, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- WP:SYNTH is not a valid argument in this instance, because most articles in Wikipedia are based on multiple external sources (with bits and pieces of various supporting data) which makes them WP:SYNTH so to speak (especially biographies), except that there's no conclusion in this article advancing any new position. The portrait in the infobox is clearly described in its caption as an "unnamed" portrait, period. With time, perhaps more documentation can be found about its provenance. Wikipedia is a project in development. Poeticbent talk 20:54, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- — Ajdukiewicz illustrated Kronprinzenwerk Encyclopedia mostly with paintings of people... because he was good at it. There are endless studies of Galician peasants among his artwork like the 1902 "Portret mężczyzny" (Portrait of a man… again, this is not the title of painting, but the description given by an auction house). We can always tell apart paintings that were not commissioned by their models. Poeticbent talk 21:07, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I believe I am understandably leery about the image being in the infobox, since the original claim here was that it was a picture of the artist himself, something that is not established (and in this nomination's "pictured" assertion probably was indeed synthesis). However, the "infobox artist" template documentation makes clear that if an image of the artist is not available, an image by the artist is an acceptable substitute, so now that I know that I'll withdraw my objection to its inclusion in the infobox, and apologize for that piece of misunderstanding. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- Note: on the same theory, that images of an artist's work are fine with a hook as well as in an infobox, I have included the image as "artwork pictured" along with the hook at the time it was promoted. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:10, 18 December 2012 (UTC)