Template:Did you know nominations/Twenty (concert)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 00:43, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
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Twenty (concert)
- ... that Ronnie Henares, who was Regine Velasquez's former manager, directed her in the concert Twenty? Source: She already has her hands full preparing for her mammoth concert celebration of her 20 years in the music business. That's why she opted to request her former manager Ronnie Henares to help her direct the concert. The Philippine Star (October 4, 2006)
Created by Pseud 14 (talk). Self-nominated at 00:56, 16 August 2022 (UTC).
Article meets DYK requirements, no close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ has been provided. However, I'm not really convinced that this hook would interest non-Filipinos. Can you suggest possible alternative options? I suppose we can go with it if there's no other alternatives, but I'd like to see what the other options are first. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:32, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- I personally would like to hear from non-Filipino reviewers re hook. If we go with the obvious—that this a 20-year celebration— it would be an uninteresting hook. I think the hook (and the article) provides context on the history between the two and why the collaboration was notable, and non-Filipinos definitely don't know who they are (to a certain degree). Also, could you define what "would interest non-Filipinos"? It's a rather vague and blurry criterion to be honest—one coming from someone who is Filipino, hence my first point. --Pseud 14 (talk) 12:25, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- If the reader doesn't know who Regine is, the hook doesn't really attract attention. It doesn't show how Henares being the director is a big deal. If the reader doesn't know who Regine is, the hook is rather meaningless. It's rather depending on knowing that Regine is a big deal in Philippine music. Ideally, the hook would have to be something that would catch the attention of even people unfamiliar with Philippine entertainment. Like, even if they don't know who Regine is, they still find the fact interesting and want to know more about the topic. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- If the reader doesn't know who Regine is, the hook doesn't really attract attention / If the reader doesn't know who Regine is, the hook is rather meaningless. -- wouldn't her article, which is linked, provide that context? And the hook isn't about her, it's about the event, which she headlined, and one that relates to a collaboration with a person significant to her career. The idea that it has to be a big deal isn't really a definition of what's "interesting" for a hook.
- It doesn't show how Henares being the director is a big deal -- hooks aren't really about a subject being a "big deal", that's a convoluted and subjective argument. We have featured obscure individuals, works, events, topics, etc.
- would catch the attention of even people unfamiliar with Philippine entertainment. -- this is somewhat subjective, and a perspective from someone totally unfamiliar with "Philippine entertainment" could be used.
- If the reader doesn't know who Regine is, the hook doesn't really attract attention. It doesn't show how Henares being the director is a big deal. If the reader doesn't know who Regine is, the hook is rather meaningless. It's rather depending on knowing that Regine is a big deal in Philippine music. Ideally, the hook would have to be something that would catch the attention of even people unfamiliar with Philippine entertainment. Like, even if they don't know who Regine is, they still find the fact interesting and want to know more about the topic. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Sorry to drag you into this @Theleekycauldron, Gerda Arendt, and Z1720: perhaps I could use your perspective as non-Filipino reviewers; (or suggestions?)--Pseud 14 (talk) 14:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm looking at the article again and there seem to be other possible alternative facts that could be used instead. How about a hook about the stage resembling a Roman colosseum? That might attract attention. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:27, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- Suggesting this as a possible ALT: ALT1 ... that the stage in Regine Velasquez's concert Twenty was built to resemble the Colosseum in Rome? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:31, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- (edit conflict:) without time to even look at the article right now: Regine was featured article in April, and we had other DYK about her work, - I thinking that her name alone is attractive. I recommend, though, to reword the hook to have her name first, to catch that attraction, unless attention for Henares is wanted. In a recent hook about a piece, Salmo 150, with a person in front and the bold piece in the end, the person received almost 3 times the clicks of the piece - which in that case was wanted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:39, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
- ALT0 won't burn the house down, but its "small world" aspect seems to constitute a pass of gen3a. I agree with Gerda, the phrasing can be tightened up. ALT1 doesn't click for me because the Colosseum is, like, the cliche stadium. So many stadia try to imitate it that this particular arena doesn't stand out. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 16:01, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- I formally have reservations on Alt1 to leeky's point. Thanks both @Theleekycauldron and Gerda Arendt: appreciate your perusal
- Alt2 ... that in the concert Twenty, Regine Velasquez tapped her former manager, Ronnie Henares, to direct the show?
- Alt2a ... that in the 2006 concert Twenty, Filipina singer Regine Velasquez tapped her former manager, Ronnie Henares, to direct the show?
- Alt3 ... that at the request of Regine Velasquez, her former manager Ronnie Henares took the helm of directing the concert Twenty? --Pseud 14 (talk) 19:23, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, and I prefer ALT2. It's short, how about adding 2006? ... and perhaps a place for those who don't know the singer, but we could also leave that open --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks Gerda Arendt, let me know if those are the changes you meant. You can tweak and have at it --Pseud 14 (talk) 19:46, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- I like ALT2a. Waiting what Narutolovehinata5 will say, who perhaps doesn't remember that we had a concert where the location (in front of the National Library) was mentioned, so another hook of the location kind would be a bit repetitious. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- I prefer ALT3. I think it mostly resolves my original concern about the hook not being easy to get for those unfamiliar with Regine. I don't really think the year is necessary for the hook fact, and I think the fact that Henares directing was Regine's request also adds to the interest. @Theleekycauldron, Gerda Arendt, and Pseud 14: Would all of you be okay with me approving ALT3? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:19, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I'm most down for ALT2 – so how about you approve all three, and let the promoter decide? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 01:23, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I prefer ALT3. I think it mostly resolves my original concern about the hook not being easy to get for those unfamiliar with Regine. I don't really think the year is necessary for the hook fact, and I think the fact that Henares directing was Regine's request also adds to the interest. @Theleekycauldron, Gerda Arendt, and Pseud 14: Would all of you be okay with me approving ALT3? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:19, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I like ALT2a. Waiting what Narutolovehinata5 will say, who perhaps doesn't remember that we had a concert where the location (in front of the National Library) was mentioned, so another hook of the location kind would be a bit repetitious. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks Gerda Arendt, let me know if those are the changes you meant. You can tweak and have at it --Pseud 14 (talk) 19:46, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you, and I prefer ALT2. It's short, how about adding 2006? ... and perhaps a place for those who don't know the singer, but we could also leave that open --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:35, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- Alt2 ... that in the concert Twenty, Regine Velasquez tapped her former manager, Ronnie Henares, to direct the show?
- I formally have reservations on Alt1 to leeky's point. Thanks both @Theleekycauldron and Gerda Arendt: appreciate your perusal
- I still think ALT3 is the stronger hook because ALT3 adds the "the directing was her request" context that ALT2 lacks. To me at least it's the fact that him directing was her own request that really gives ALT3 extra kick. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I still prefer ALT2a because the year tells me - and much shorter - in which time frame to think of the singer (not in the 1930s ...) - I don't think that - given the premise a reader doesn't know the singer - her request adds to it being interesting. Similar to tlc: approve those two and let the prep builder decide. For the future prep builder: given the premise that a reader doesn't know who Regine is, I think ALT3 doesn't work well because for the longest time in the hook, you are not even told what her job is, - she could be a secretary asking some favour from her boss. We'd at least need some ALT3a to make it work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:00, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
- I still think ALT3 is the stronger hook because ALT3 adds the "the directing was her request" context that ALT2 lacks. To me at least it's the fact that him directing was her own request that really gives ALT3 extra kick. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
All three iterations are verified, interesting, and reasonably snappy. Semantics are the job of the prep set team – let them decide, it's gonna get tweaked anyway. I approve ALT2, ALT2a, and ALT3. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 05:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
