Template:Did you know nominations/Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 17:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society

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'Rainbow plaque' commemorating conference

... that Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society was a three day conference in Leeds that was the first such event to be organised by trans people? Source: "Although there had been a medical 'expert' conference in the UK in 1969, the conference in 1974 was the first as far as we are aware that was set up by members of the transgender community to bring together other members, medical and other professionals and anyone else who might be interested." https://web.archive.org/web/20230512154010/http://www.gender.org.uk/gendys/2007/39ekins.htm
- ALT1: ... that in 1974, Leeds hosted the conference Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society where the phrases "trans.people (sic)" and "gender alignment" were potentially first publically used? Source: "Some of the terminology used at the conference would take some twenty years to become widespread. As far as we are aware, the first use of the term trans.people (sic) was when Julia Tonner referred to "the two worlds of the trans.people" (ie transsexuals and transvestites). In addition, there was also talk of transsexuals seeking 'gender alignment' and of 'trans-gender' also used as an umbrella term."https://web.archive.org/web/20230512154010/http://www.gender.org.uk/gendys/2007/39ekins.htm
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Leilani Tominiko
- Comment: The conference took place from 15-17 March 1974 - could this nomination be held go live on 16 March or similar?

Created by Lajmmoore (talk). Self-nominated at 11:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I strongly prefer ALT1, but could it be reworded? Something like, "...the first known uses of the phrases "gender alignment", and "trans" as an umbrella term for transgender people, were at the 1974 Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society conference in Leeds?" Also, the photo isn't terribly clear at 120px - I'm guessing there are no alternatives? Prosperosity (talk) 04:39, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Prosperosity: - your suggested wording was clearer, but I think the article refers to the specific phrase trans.people (I think transgender dates to 1971 in the UK), I didn't include it in a the article because of this difference. How about:

ALT2 "...early use of the phrases "gender alignment", and "trans.people" for transgender people, were at the 1974 Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society conference in Leeds?"
I wish there was another option, but no. The other option would be to change the ALT to include the name of the hotel, and for me to get hold of a picture of it? Lajmmoore (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Lajmmoore: This sounds better! How about rewording the sentence as ""trans.people" to describe transgender people" or something similar, like changing the word order? The phrase "trans.people for transgender people" is a little hard to parse.
Would you be okay with no photo for the nomination? Otherwise maybe a photo from the mid-1970s of the hotel can be sourced and added to the article? (I'm guessing photos from the event are either lost to time or have no chance of being CC-BY licensed). --Prosperosity (talk) 23:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Prosperosity:, how about:

ALT3 "... early use of the phrases "gender alignment", and "trans.people" to describe transgender people, were at the 1974 Transvestism and Transsexuality in Modern Society conference in Leeds?"

Looks great! --Prosperosity (talk) 20:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

In terms of an image, I can't see an openly licensed 1970s one either on Commons or on Geograph. What I can do is see if I can take a better one of the plaque? I'd really prefer it to have an image, as they do create more visibility. I'll ping you again, once I have seen if I can get a better picture. If not we'll have to go without Lajmmoore (talk) 07:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Temporary rainbow plaque for Transvestism and Transsexuality conference held at University of Leeds in 1974, plaque made in 2018 4
Hey Prosperosity, I took some new images, but the temporary plaque is now peeling, so although in higher resolution, it doesn't look great. Thoughts? Lajmmoore (talk) 15:49, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Urgh, unfortunately that doesn't look any better (and it's still not very legible at 100px). Even if we list it with the photo, I don't think the person who chooses the DYK photo would select either plaque photo. I'd strongly recommend we go forward without any photo - is that alright? --Prosperosity (talk) 20:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Sure, not much else to do! Lajmmoore (talk) 18:32, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Just adding a note that it would be great if it could be used on 15/16/17 March - the anniversary of the conference! Lajmmoore (talk) 10:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Great, in that case the DYK is all ready to go. --Prosperosity (talk) 20:11, 31 January 2024 (UTC)