- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:18, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
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The Clingers
The Clingers in 1969
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that The Clingers was the first girl band to play their own instruments and be signed with a major label?Source: Documentary called "The Clinger Sisters: The First All Girl Rock & Roll Band"- ALT1: ... that Melody Clinger of the girl band The Clingers met the drummer for The Beach Boys, Dennis Wilson, after wolf-whistling his Rolls Royce on her way home from a guitar lesson? Source: pg. 76 of the Ugly Things article on The Clingers: (quoting Melody): "You know how I met [Dennis Wilson]? I was walking home with my guitar from my guitar lesson. It was right there on Riverside and Vineland where the freeway comes over there. I was walking and I saw this Rolls Royce. I used to wolf whistle real good [...] I whistled real loud, and they put on the brakes and backed up, and it turns out to be Dennis Wilson!"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Goodbye Normal Street
Created by Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk). Self-nominated at 18:08, 25 April 2022 (UTC).
- Comment (not a review): ALT0 is probably not true as written: International Sweethearts of Rhythm were an all-female big band thirty years earlier. —Kusma (talk) 10:24, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
I think there is subjectivity in the phrase "signed with a major label". Any thoughts on this Rachel Helps (BYU)? Will do a full review later today or tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 22:34, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- ? - Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - ?
- Interesting: - ?
- Other problems: - ?
| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Article is new enough, since it was created on April 21 and nominated on April 25. Length is adequate. Sourcing in good in the prose, but the last five charts in the discography have no clear citation. I am unsure what to make of the first sentence in the discography which might be a citation for the charts? No plagiarism issues detected. All images in the article are freely licensed on the Commons. The hook image is used in the article, and clear enough at a low resolution. QPQ requirement is complete. Hook ALT0 is interesting, but not may not be correct as per above. Hook ALT1 seems to be about one member of the band, rather than the band as a whole, so it is not as interesting to me. Overall the article is in better than average shape, and a great contribution to Wikipedia. Flibirigit (talk) 00:39, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Flibirigit, thanks for the review.
- The first sentence in the discography explains the sourcing for the works of Peggy, Debra, and Patsy that are listed after the works of the The Clinger Sisters and The Clingers. I tried to clarify that. Everything else is cited in-line, but if you prefer, I could simply duplicate the Ugly Things ref for every song/album under Peggy, Debra, and Patsy's works instead of making a broad citation statement.
- Regarding "major label", I'm going off of what Kim Fowley and Debra said on the documentary (on the page under the "legacy" section). However, this is worth discussing because I heard that it was a point of discussion with fans. I couldn't find written evidence of this discussion, otherwise I would have included it on the page. If you like, we can dig in a little. Signing with a record company is a bit different than actually releasing with them. The group signed with Vee-Jay records in 1964, but that was under their singing group and not as a band. They signed with Equinox records in 1967, although nothing came of it. The Clingers had a single with Columbia in 1968. Fanny (album) came out in 1970. The Pleasure Seekers (band) released an album with Mercury records in 1968. "Girl band" is also suspect, since Fowley defined it as consisting of women under the age of 18, but Melody, the eldest, would have turned 18 in 1965. In the hook I use it to refer to a band where all the members are women (on English Wikipedia, "girl band" redirects to All-female band). Anyway, in light of the vagueness of everything in the hook, I would like to propose a new one:
- ALT 2: ...that The Clingers, sisters who formed an all-woman rock band, were not allowed to play their own instruments in their first appearance on The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour in 1968? source: "On November 3, 1968 the Clingers made their first of several appearances on [The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour]. There was one big catch though--the show's producers didn't want them to play their instruments. 'That's what was so hurtful to us,' states Patsy, 'Because that's all they saw [at the practice studio] was us playing and singing, and yet right away they want us standing up, they don't want us on instruments. What's up with that? We fought it. We fought it like you couldn't believe.'" Ugly Things p. 79-80 Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:17, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Rachel, I see that I made a mistake in analyzing the hooks. I will revisit this later tonight or tomorrow. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 17:22, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Working on the follow-up review today. Sorry for the delay. Flibirigit (talk) 14:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- The article now meets all sourcing criteria. I see that Peggy Clinger died in 1975. Are the remaining sisters alive? I think the article would benefit from a "Members" section with a brief biography of each. The article seems like a work in progress without such a section. Otherwise, this article is in great shape! I will comment on the hooks shortly. Flibirigit (talk) 15:42, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
- For the hooks, I agree that ALT0 as written is confusing and somewhat vague. ALT1 is somewhat interesting, properly cited inline, and would be accepted by AGF on the source. ALT2 is a stronger and catchier hook. It is properly cited inline, and would be accepted by AGF on the source. The only outstanding question/concern is inserting a brief "Members" section. Flibirigit (talk) 17:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think a members section is required for DYK, but I added one. If there are style guidelines for band pages floating around somewhere, please let me know, because I have been looking for them. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 20:28, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Article guidelines is the best guide for the layout of musician articles. Flibirigit (talk) 21:26, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The article now has a basic members section. Approving ALT1 and ALT2 as per my review above. Flibirigit (talk) 21:29, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Article guidelines is the best guide for the layout of musician articles. Flibirigit (talk) 21:26, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think a members section is required for DYK, but I added one. If there are style guidelines for band pages floating around somewhere, please let me know, because I have been looking for them. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 20:28, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- For the hooks, I agree that ALT0 as written is confusing and somewhat vague. ALT1 is somewhat interesting, properly cited inline, and would be accepted by AGF on the source. ALT2 is a stronger and catchier hook. It is properly cited inline, and would be accepted by AGF on the source. The only outstanding question/concern is inserting a brief "Members" section. Flibirigit (talk) 17:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
- Working on the follow-up review today. Sorry for the delay. Flibirigit (talk) 14:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Rachel, I see that I made a mistake in analyzing the hooks. I will revisit this later tonight or tomorrow. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 17:22, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
