- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 10:19, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
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Smilja Avramov
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- ... that Smilja Avramov (pictured) stated that the Brussels Agreement signed in April 2013 violates the Constitution of Serbia and UN Charter and indirectly recognizes Kosovo as an independent state?
- Reviewed: Nathan Cohen (rower)
5x expanded by Antidiskriminator (talk). Self nominated at 21:08, 31 October 2013 (UTC).
At first eye glance it didn't seem five-folded expanded to me, but using the "Cut and paste" tool, I found an expansion from about 360 characters to about 2144 (not counting the publication list). And then it's also new enough. I have copyedited the prose slightly, so please check what I have done to see if you agree. I also added some citation needed tags, and in addition to those I added, I would like to see a citation at the end of the education paragraph. The lede mentions that she (is?) "member of the Senate of Republika Srpska in 1996". This is not expanded on in the body of the article, and since the lede is meant to summarize the lede, I think you should tell a bit more about this in the body: did she represent a party, where was she elected from, how long did she serve? Sources are mostly in Serbian, which I can't read, so I can't check for accuracy or copyvio/close paraphrasing. The one English source "List of Previous International Law Association Conferences". led straight to the main page; I didn't see the list and didn't find anything while searching for her name , but that's probably the netsite that has been updated since the source was added in 2012. Photo with adequate licence. The hook might need some copyediting/tweaking, maybe shortening. For instance, I think we can just say the 2013 Brüssel Agreement rather than pointing out it was signed in April 2013. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 11:35, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- I have cropped the picture and done some more copy editting. As Iselilja states ints tricky to check but we can AGF a source. There are several books on-line that discuss her views - and she has some surprising and therefore hooky ideas. Options are to AGF, find a translation, or to add a hook based on an English language hook. Victuallers (talk) 22:18, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I didn't mean to indicate that Serbian sources are not valid (I mostly use Norwegian sources in my own articles), I was just pointing out that I can not check for copyvio/close paraphrasing, and by that I meant I would have to AGF as you say. I have also pointed out that I would like some more inline citation for specific information.(May happen by just naming and re-using current sources). + Some more info about her political career as indicated above. - Also, after you copy-editing the article says "Since 1949 Avramov has worked as an assistant and professor" - but considerering that she's 95, does she still work at the University? Regards, Iselilja (talk) 22:31, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for copyediting and reviewing of this article's nomination. I translated the quote which supports the hook and will address your other concerns shortly.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:39, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- An advice: Instead of copying and pasting text of the article it is easier to use a gadget within Tools menu. When you are watching some article page Tool menu on the left side of the screen has DYK check option which shows number of characters in the text according to DYK rules. This is not only easier but more accurate because DYK rules do not accept all text of the article as its content.
- Both assertions with citation needed tags are cited.
- Citation was added to the end of Education paragraph also.
- The period of her membership in the Senate is clarified and expanded in the body of the article.
- I don't mind shortening the hook.
- It is clarified that she is a retired professor.
- Thanks for very good observations. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for copyediting and reviewing of this article's nomination. I translated the quote which supports the hook and will address your other concerns shortly.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:39, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, I didn't mean to indicate that Serbian sources are not valid (I mostly use Norwegian sources in my own articles), I was just pointing out that I can not check for copyvio/close paraphrasing, and by that I meant I would have to AGF as you say. I have also pointed out that I would like some more inline citation for specific information.(May happen by just naming and re-using current sources). + Some more info about her political career as indicated above. - Also, after you copy-editing the article says "Since 1949 Avramov has worked as an assistant and professor" - but considerering that she's 95, does she still work at the University? Regards, Iselilja (talk) 22:31, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
ALT1... that Smilja Avramov (pictured) stated that the 2013 Brussels Agreement violates the UN Charter and indirectly recognizes Kosovo as an independent state?- Thank you for your fine work and the article is very well inline-cited now. As for the hook; in your translation I didn't see any reference to the Serbian constitution, so I have left that out the hook. (Maybe the Serbian consitution is mentioned in the full Serbian text, otherwise the article should also be changed). I was considering a bit whether it was OK to have an interview statement made by a 95 year old in the hook; as people at that age sometimes can make unfortunate statements due to reduced mental capacities or having lost touch with modern thinking; but I believe this kind of considerations primarily must lie with the article writer and nominator and her statement is mentioned in the Brussels Agreement (2013) article. Not knowing much about Serbia in general or Avramov in particular, I cannot independently fully assess the neutrality of the article, but it looks neutral on its face. (Thanks for the advice about the tool on the right hand; I know the cut and paste tool is not perfect, which is why I haven't normally made "close-calls"; in this case I probably thought the article was a new article when I started reviewing it). Regards, Iselilja (talk) 09:39, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
