Template:Did you know nominations/Pasterka

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Pasterka edit

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~~... that Pasterka (pictured), formally a Midnight mass of December 24 Christmas celebrations across Poland, can be held three times on Christmas Eve by the Roman Catholic Church?~~

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Khandana Bhava–Bandhana.
Comment: Over 5x expansion (December 20, 2012) from 323 chars of readable prose to 2,552 chars of readable prose on top of brand new ref section with infobox and GDFL pics... would love to have it featured on December 24 (Christmas Eve), thanks. Poeticbent talk 18:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Created/expanded by Poeticbent (talk). Self nom at 18:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

fitting article for the latest set (in Europe) on 24 Dec. Interesting, well sourced, Polish sources accepted AGF. - Article: In the lead, I suggest to first say what it is, then explain the shepherd translation/connection. Use link to Carol. Wording: please clarify "Since the participation in Pasterka mass is obligatory for all practicing Catholics, they have the choice of attending any one of them or even more than one, because exact hour of the Birth of Christ is not written in the Canonical gospels." (I don't think "since" is right, nor "because". Also: why talk about the hour, when neither the date nor the year are known.) - Hook: Wording: I stumbled over "held up" ;) I think the last line might be more interesting as a hook: "Many practicing Catholics visit the Church twice on that occasion and are encouraged by the priest to do so." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:31, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

The picture is free and good, but not so good small size, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:43, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Done. Thanks a million for the review, Gerda Arendt, and for your attention to detail. Please note, I replaced the original pic with a crop (above) and fixed the hook (i.e.: "can be held" instead of "held... up to"). The shepherdess translation is lower down in the lede, i-links added, "since" and "because" removed with a lot of rephrasing. I explained the hours of celebration better I think, because they correspond to Midnight. I added some more clarifications also. Much obliged, Poeticbent talk 05:54, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, excellent! The picture is colourful, but doesn't show much, - the one preparing the set may decide. Please consider if mentioning the Roman Catholic church might limit "hits". My suggestions for the general crowd, even a bit quirky, would be:

ALT1: ... that Pasterka (pictured), a Midnight mass of December 24 Christmas celebrations across Poland, can be held three times on Christmas Eve?
ALT2:... that many practicing Catholics in Poland attend the Midnight mass Pasterka (pictured) twice to celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I like the ALT1 best, however, please take a look also at my ALT3 (below) based on your own. I'm trying to make it clearer that Midnight Mass can be held not at midnight. Thanks again, Poeticbent talk 16:07, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that Pasterka (pictured), a Midnight mass of December 24 Christmas celebrations across Poland, can be held three times on Christmas Eve, leading to midnight?

for ALTs 1 to 3, the prep builder can chose. The link on Poland in ALT3 is overdoing it a bit, even to religion, let's concentrate. I like ALT2 best, because it stresses that people actually go and how much so, - there are places in the world where masses are held in almost empty churches. I think saying 2 or 3 times on day implies that they are not all at midnight. But that's just my POV ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There's a basic contradiction in the original hook and ALTs 1 and 3: a mass beginning at midnight is beginning on December 25, not December 24. I think these hooks need to remove "December 24" from their text. ALT3's "leading to midnight" is not supported by an inline citation; it would need to be in order to be retained. If so, I'd suggest modifying it to "including at midnight". Here's how it would look:

ALT4: ... that Pasterka (pictured), a Midnight mass of Christmas celebrations across Poland, can be held three times on Christmas Eve, including at midnight?

If midnight is the latest it can begin, or even the time when the final service has to begin, then the wording could be made more specific. But the sourcing for it would need to be added inline regardless. Finally, Gerda, you really shouldn't approve your own ALT1 or ALT2; if you'd like them to be used, someone else needs to do that. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

ALT4 is very good in my view. Would you approve of this phrasing, Gerda Arendt? Poeticbent talk 17:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

yes for ALT4, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't see an inline source for "including at midnight", which I said would be necessary. Please add it—there must be one available, and DYK rules are strict about inline source citations—and I can remove the icon on this line and let the nomination proceed. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:18, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Done. I added two more ext. links in English confirming the hook, with a bit more info about the actual nightime celebrations. I ended up moving text around a bit for consistency. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 23:29, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks great. Thank you so much. Icon removed as promised. I'll move this to the special holding area for December 24 as requested in a couple of minutes. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:03, 22 December 2012 (UTC)