Template:Did you know nominations/Our Father, Thou in Heaven Above

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Yoninah (talk) 23:51, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
Under 1500 char

Our Father, Thou in Heaven Above edit

(

)

Martin Luther

... that "Our Father, Thou in Heaven Above", originally in German as "Vater unser im Himmelreich", by Martin Luther (pictured) and translated in 1863 was one of the more aggressive hymns that challenged Catholic teaching during the Reformation? Source: The Sound of Light: A History of Gospel and Christian Music. Hal Leonard Corporation. p. 28. ISBN 063402938X.

Reviewed: Reinforcement (speciation)
Comment: For 31 October (500th anniversary of the Reformation)

Created/expanded by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 09:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC).

Comment: I don't understand how Luther wrote anything in English. Please clarify. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:10, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Do you mean Vater unser im Himmelreich? I'd suggest you expand that article with what concerns Luther, and reserve the one in English for Winkworth's translation and others, and their position. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:13, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

It has been clarified now. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 17:15, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

You mean by saying that it was in German originally? Not enough. No original title, no link to the existing article, and no reason to say similar things in both articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:37, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

ps: the hook also doesn't work, because the the hymn was not even translated at the time of the Reformation. No English hymn was more or less aggressive then. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:41, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

IT is in the original that it is referencing which has now been mentioned in the hook as you requested. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 17:45, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I was not clear enough. The English (translated) hymn didn't exist until 1863. It was nothing at the time of the Reformation, 500 years ago. You cannot speak about it in historic context before that, - it's misleading. Expect a merge request. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

You can if its in relation to the original text which was translated. I have further clarified it for a future reviewer. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 20:40, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Some may think they can, - I can't. I can't write Wagner composed The Flying Dutchman. If you look at our featured article about the composer, it's free from such a ~~nonsense~~ claim. You can imitate that quality. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:48, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

ALT1: ... that Catherine Winkworth wrote the hymn "Our Father, Thou in Heaven Above", translating "Vater unser im Himmelreich" by Martin Luther (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Striking the original hook, which at 229 characters excluding "(pictured)" is far too long for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:43, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

I am trying to get some form of Reformation reference in as that is why I requested for the 500th anniversary. I have reworded the original here and hope this is sufficient. ALT2... that "Our Father, Thou in Heaven Above" was translated from a German language hymn by Martin Luther (pictured), which was one of his hymns that challenged Catholic teaching in the Reformation? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 20:45, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I don't know why you want to focus on "aggressive" that day. My idea is the opposite. - I still think the article should be part of the one about Luther's hymn, or be about the translation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:46, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to focus on aggressive, I wanted to focus more on the Reformation hence why I wanted the hook to include it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 15:02, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

On hold until the merge proposal has concluded. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:19, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Having read the merge discussion, which seems to have stalled a month and a half ago, short of merging the article outright, I've removed the bulk of the Luther history paragraph (a related suggestion was made by Gerda Arendt above), leaving the creation and publication information (the latter because it's the only place where the tune is mentioned), which is actually more than was proposed in the discussion. This leaves the article ineligible for DYK, at 1011 prose characters only. I'm assuming that if there had been more information specifically about Winkworth's hymn, it would have been added by now. I have struck ALT2 because the material that supported it was part of what was cut. We are also past the Reformation anniversary that seemed to be driving this nomination originally. The C of E, what are your thoughts? BlueMoonset (talk) 16:51, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

It has been seven days without a response; the article remains at 1011 prose characters, about two-thirds of the minimum required for DYK. Marking for closure. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:36, 21 December 2017 (UTC)