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Template:Did you know nominations/Order of the Falcon (Czechoslovakia)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:12, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
Reliability

Order of the Falcon (Czechoslovakia) edit

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Badge of a Knight of the Order of the Falcon (with swords)

Created/expanded by AusTerrapin (talk). Self nom at 17:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

:* Nothing supports the hook. The article is about the cross and not Jan Syrový. I think you misunderstood how the hook should be created. It cannot gather information from another articles. Jan Syrový's name is not even listed in the "Notable recipients" section of the article. Consider writing an alternative hook based on solely the medallon OR include a properly sourced paragraph about Jan Syrový in "History and appointments" section and re-nominate it. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 09:26, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Okay so the link in the hook leads to the wrong article! So the real article looks fine but I would remove the picture (at least from the nomination) as though it is from Commons I doubt it is the own work of the uploader (he uploads photos edited with CanoScan Toolbox 5.0, each with different background meaning they are scanned from somewhere). References (N°2) are from a forum and N°3 seems to be a user submission site. These needs to be replaced with reliable sources as soon as possible. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 09:48, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Comment:
  • Link now points to correct article!
  • Re the image, whilst I am not going to die in a ditch over it, no one appears to have challenged the uploader on his images. Editing with CanoScan Toolbox doesn't guarantee that the images have been scanned from a 3rd party source, there are perfectly plausible explanations. Ultimately, I'll leave it to those processing the nom to decide if the want to strip a 3 year old (and to date uncontested) Commons image out (which they might do any way for purely editorial reasons).
    • I didn't want to sound too rude nor harsh, I'm just sticking to the rules of Wikipedia, there's a reason they exist. So the picture is up for three years, which is irrelevant, I can challenge it today if I want to (I'm registered at Commons though I don't patrol it). There is a high chance that the pic is taken from here (based on the identical image search of Google and the very unusual but common pink backgrounds; vice-versa copyvio is unlikely since the bigger must be the original one). Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 19:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Refs 3 and 5-95 are to valka.cz. This site contains mixed content - user contributions and researched data, all information relied upon in the Wikipedia article is from controlled information which is clearly kept in a relational database which is not editable by general site contributors. All personnel information, including appointments to the Order of the Falcon is referenced to Czech Central Military Archive records as noted on the records. Given the nature, extent and volume of information provided is consistent with this origin, I think it unlikely that the relevant information on valka.cz has not been reliably sourced. I have updated the references to make the underpinning source more clear. Moreover, Jan Syrový 1932.jpg and Jan Syrový.jpg both clearly show Syrový wearing the badge of the order.
    • To identify badges from a B/W photo to back up claims is WP:ORIGINAL. Again I don't want to be a pain in the ass, I'm just following the guidelines. The site is still ambiguous since there can be user submitted data published there and its admins as experts can not be verified. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 19:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Ref 2 is a dealer site which, while it does have user discussion forums and commercial areas, it also has site management supplied expert information regarding the background of various orders, decorations and medals, along with information on how to identify different production variations, etc. The information used in the article is sourced from the expert information, not from forum contributors.
  • If this is not adequate, then I don't have the resources to provide better sourcing - web searches have not revealed anything superior (several unreliable source hits, with information consistent with the current article sources). So the only better sources are going to be offline and will only be better because they are published by unambiguously reputable 3rd party publishers - the one I had (Duckers) only gave it a brief mention given that it was abolished (without prejudice to existing recipients) shortly after creation. AusTerrapin (talk) 17:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
    • Maybe you should try to look it up in printed books (not online) about the person or decorations in general. If he was a Prime Minister I'm pretty sure there must be a bunch of written material about him in libraries. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 19:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

If you are 100% sure you can't fix these errors within the article and its hook I'd say let's wait until more sources pop up to improve their quality. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 19:28, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

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