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Template:Did you know nominations/Myth: People are at Increased Risk for Suicide During the Winter Months

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by PFHLai (talk) 03:04, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Myth: People are at Increased Risk for Suicide During the Winter Months edit

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Created/expanded by DavidlawsonND (talk). Self nom at 21:42, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

  • This should be held back until the deletion discussion is resolved. If the article survives that discussion (it looks like it probably will) this is probably a viable entry.--Carabinieri (talk) 13:06, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
  • The deletion debate has been closed and the article was kept. Generally, the article appears to sum up research on this matter in objective manner. What I don't get, though, is why Durkheim's research is described in the section on American research. Also, non-American research shouldn't be referred to as "international", since Wikipedia articles should be written from a global perspective. Once these things are addressed, I think this nomination can go forward.--Carabinieri (talk) 21:45, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Agree with Carabinieri that the article appears to sum up the current research accurately. But issues like why Durkheim is under American, e.g.? The article needs cleaning up, especially the citations but that isn't a concern of DYK? (I don't know the rules.) MathewTownsend (talk) 16:49, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • DYK articles are expected to have reached a certain level of quality, though the line is very blurry. As it is, don't feel like the article is at that level for the reasons I listed.--Carabinieri (talk) 17:00, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, primary source data is contained in Gender for some reason, and many of the citations appear to be primary sources. Per WP:MEDRS, this shouldn't be. MathewTownsend (talk) 17:48, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I note that the article creator is a student without previous Wikipedia experience who created this article as a class project. Can the people expressing concerns possibly see clear to help with article cleanup and advice? --Orlady (talk) 17:58, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I've made the changes that I felt are needed. The article's authors haven't objected to anything I did. I haven't looked into the primary source issue, though.--Carabinieri (talk) 21:49, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
The article content looks to be appropriately sourced, and research results are generally described appropriately as research findings, rather than as if they were revealed truth. Consistent with that observation, I believe an alternative hook is needed:
However, I find that the article makes excessive use of direct quotations where a Wikipedian's own words should be provided. A few examples of the many direct quotations that are either inappropriate as quotations or that are too long are:
  • "the seasonal component of suicide incidence for the time period 1981 through 1990 is clearly significant and records about a 27.7% increase in seasonal contribution by comparison with the previous period" and "the peak number of suicides occurred in spring (November) in men and women of Rio Grande do Sul state and in men of Parana and Santa Catarina states, and in early summer (January) for women of Parana state". Research results such as these can be described in other words; there is no particular value in quoting this kind of information.
  • “seasonal variation in suicide incidence could be explained by the increase in sunshine in summer months because of a relationship between sunshine, high temperatures and suicide rate.” and “The mean scale scores for present and future loneliness were greatest for spring and winter, the peak seasons for the timing of suicide attempts…persons may actually postpone acts of attempted suicide in order to participate and become emotionally involved in important annual ceremonies”. These kinds of interpretations also can be rephrased; there is no special value in repeating the researcher's words.
  • Some also believe that “holiday cheer amplifies loneliness and hopelessness in people who have lost loved ones, or who have high expectations of renewed happiness during the holiday season, only to be disappointed.” That's a very specific quotation for a statement that is attributed only to "some"! Regardless of who said it, as with the other items noted here, these concepts could be easily rendered in other words. --Orlady (talk) 21:01, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
  • - Article meets criteria outlined at WP:DYK. The quotes should be reworked but that's a copy-editing issue and should not stop this DYK from going forward. ALT1 is the better of the hooks. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 00:29, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • - I haven't checked the article recently but excessive quotations is not just a "copyediting issue. It's a copyvio issue. You can't just use other people's words excessively if those words are copyrighted. It is a legal issue for wikipedia, and especially so for stuff on the Main page. MathewTownsend (talk) 00:41, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
    Then maybe you should check the article. The quotes are generally short, contextual, inline, and directly sourced and attributed. Scientific papers are rated by how often they are quoted, there's no legal issue. That's what those papers are written for. That being said, the article does read a little like a scientific paper itself, which is the main reason to rewrite the info in those quotes. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 00:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
    • To be clear, the quotes aren't from the same few sources. The article has 32 different sources, it just has more quotes than is needed. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 00:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I just rechecked the article and I find that there have been few changes and the use of quotations is still excessive. There are a few instances where direct quotations are short and contextual and have been used appropriately, for example, in this sentence: Regarding Australia’s seasonal rates of suicide, studies have confirmed that the country's suicide peak in December and January is also from the number of “bright sunlight hours”. Most of the quotations in the article are, however, excessive -- including the examples I cited earlier. The fact that multiple sources have been plagiarized does not change the fact that the article's use of quotations is plagiaristic. --Orlady (talk) 15:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Upon further reflection, I think it's time to pull the plug on this one. Portions of the article are based on primary sources in scientific journals (rather than secondary reviews of the research); the extensive use of excessive quotations creates a plagiarism/copvio issue; and recent editing has introduced bare-URL reference citations to a non-RS source (about.com). It's been one month since this article survived AfD; methinks it's now time for DYK to run out of patience waiting for it to be fixed. --Orlady (talk) 18:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Agreed that if the issues aren't fixed by now, they aren't likely to be any time soon. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 18:52, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
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