- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 00:54, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
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Mikhail Borodin edit
- ... that Sun Yat-sen referred to Comintern agent Mikhail Borodin as his "Lafayette"? Source: Return to the Middle Kingdom: One Family, Three Revolutionaries, and the Birth of Modern China (p. 111)
- Reviewed: Chesapeake and Ohio 1309
Improved to Good Article status by RGloucester (talk). Self-nominated at 05:14, 6 January 2019 (UTC).
Passed GA recently enough, sourced, no copyvio detected, hook is sourced and short enough, QPQ is done, good to go.--Staberinde (talk) 17:58, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: @The Rambling Man: @Staberinde: apologies, but per discussion at WP:TRM regarding the original hook being not accessible to most readers, and then a complaint on my talk page about the replacement being too long, I've pulled it for now. This should give more time to come up with a sensible alternative. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 23:53, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
- Here is the amended hook, which is 231 characters long:
- ALT1: ... that Chinese revolutionary leader Sun Yat-sen referred to Comintern agent Mikhail Borodin as his "Lafayette", a reference to the aid provided by the Marquis de Lafayette to the American side during the American War of Independence?
- If it can't be shortened, perhaps a new hook could be proposed? (Personally, I found the original hook short and intriguing. The minute you spell everything out, there's no reason to click on it.) Yoninah (talk) 23:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
- First it's too short, then it's too long. Clearly it is impossible for this process to function as it should. Why bother? RGloucester — ☎ 00:07, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- If, as Yoninah suggests, there was no problem with the original hook, please put it back. Otherwise, what exactly is desired here? RGloucester — ☎ 00:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe the objection was that readers don't know who Sun Yat-sen, Mikhail Borodin, and Marquis de Lafayette are, so we have to spell everything out. Do you have an alternate hook suggestion, or is this the hook you want to stick with? Yoninah (talk) 00:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- I understand that many people probably won't know who Borodin is...but isn't that the purpose of DYK in the first place, that is to say, to inform people about things they would not otherwise know? I expected people to know Sun Yat-sen and Lafayette, but I figured hyperlinks would be sufficient if they did not. I cannot see an effective way to spell out the history of these people in such a short text. In fact, the very idea of being forced to condense the lives of people of such a caliber as these into a few choice words is a travesty. I like the original hook. The only thing that I would consider adding, for clarity, is an appendage to describe who Sun Yat-sen is. Therefore, I propose the following:
- Maybe the objection was that readers don't know who Sun Yat-sen, Mikhail Borodin, and Marquis de Lafayette are, so we have to spell everything out. Do you have an alternate hook suggestion, or is this the hook you want to stick with? Yoninah (talk) 00:35, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... that Chinese revolutionary leader Sun Yat-sen referred to Comintern agent Mikhail Borodin as his "Lafayette"? RGloucester — ☎ 00:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- If, as Yoninah suggests, there was no problem with the original hook, please put it back. Otherwise, what exactly is desired here? RGloucester — ☎ 00:26, 27 January 2019 (UTC)