- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 20:37, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
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Mesude Çağlayan
... that Turkish soprano Mesude Çağlayan was presented a tiny baby doll figure of "Madame Butterfly" by the Government of Japan for her performance in the same named opera in the 1940s?Source: "Türk operasının öncüleri Ankara Halkevi sahnesinde, 21 Haziran 1940 tarihinde ilk temsillerini verdiler.", "İkinci eser ise Puccini’nin “Madama Butterfly” operasının ikinci perdesi idi.", ".. ertesi yıl “Madam Butterfly”ın tamamı sahnelendi." (in Turkish) [1],"Çağlayan'a "Madam Butterfly" Operasındaki başarısı nedeniyle Japon Hükümeti tarafından teşekkür ile minik Butterfly bebeği armağan edildi." (in Turkish) [2]
- Reviewed: Allan J. McDonald
5x expanded by CeeGee (talk). Self-nominated at 10:08, 16 March 2021 (UTC).
- I am not sure that all our readers will make the connection that Madama Butterfly is a Japaneses role in Italian opera, - can that come out more in the hook? In the article, we usually say Bizet's Carmen, - no link to the composer, - can you do that? Does your source say which role. Probably not Carmen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:53, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Interesting life and pioneering work, on fine sources, the mostly Turkish sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. The hook is acceptable but I think we can do better, pointing out that her performance was - if I got it right - in the first opera production by the State Conservatory in Turkey (there must be an article about that institution, or we will have to make one), - at least something like "pioneering" should be mentioned, along the lines of: ... that MC who appeared as the Japanese title character in Puccini's MB in an early production of opera in Turkey#Republican periodopera in Turkey / by the Turkish State Conservatory / in the 1940s, was awarded a Butterfly doll from the Japanese Government? - You please rephrase, choosing because it's too long, or rephrase yours, and then I can review. Lovely work in women's month! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- All the sources I found say that she debuted at Ankara Halkevi in its stage opening on 21 June 1940. That performance was not a full version of Puccini's opera. She appeared in the full version in 1942, and it is most likely that the Japanese officials in Ankara were witnes then. In 1940, as she played Madame Butterfly, she was still a student at Ankara State Conservatory, which was established in 1936, and was taken over by the Hacettepe Univeristy later on. An article about the Ankara State Conservatory exists already in stub form. I will be expanding it in the future. In order to avoid misunderstanding, I drop the time, and suggest the following:
- ALT1:
... that the pioneering Turkish soprano Mesude Çağlayan was presented a tiny baby doll figure of "Madame Butterfly" by the Government of Japan for her Japanese woman role in the same named opera?- Understand that the officials probably saw the full performance. I am not happy with "tiny baby", thinking that "tiny" or "baby" alone would make it small enough. I am not happy with "woman role", title role is better. I am not happy with "same name opera", the right term is eponoumous but that's ugly. How is this:
- ALT1: ... that the pioneering Turkish soprano Mesude Çağlayan was presented a tiny doll of "Madama Butterfly" by the Government of Japan for performing the Japanese title role in Puccini's opera?
- I approve those two, but am open for a better suggestion. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:59, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Your formulation is better. I like it. Thnaks a lot. CeeGee 05:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
thank you, and I completely forgot the icon ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:37, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- Your formulation is better. I like it. Thnaks a lot. CeeGee 05:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- ALT1:
- All the sources I found say that she debuted at Ankara Halkevi in its stage opening on 21 June 1940. That performance was not a full version of Puccini's opera. She appeared in the full version in 1942, and it is most likely that the Japanese officials in Ankara were witnes then. In 1940, as she played Madame Butterfly, she was still a student at Ankara State Conservatory, which was established in 1936, and was taken over by the Hacettepe Univeristy later on. An article about the Ankara State Conservatory exists already in stub form. I will be expanding it in the future. In order to avoid misunderstanding, I drop the time, and suggest the following:
