- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:13, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
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Marlise Wendels edit
... that George Solti made soprano Marlise Wendels promise that she would never leave the Frankfurt Opera?Source: FAZ
- Reviewed: Wildlife of Kuwait
- Comment: using the first of the two reviewed articles
Created by Voceditenore (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 22:57, 11 February 2019 (UTC).
Can a new hook be proposed here? Because as it is, it's honestly not very interesting. It's not exactly "hooky" by itself to ask someone not to leave an institution, unless the background behind the event was interesting in its own right, which doesn't seem to be seen in the hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- It's what the author proposed, - look at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera. - It's a speacial person who asked, and a special institution to stay. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:29, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Actually, I didn't propose that as a DYK hook. It was simply a blurb I used when listing new articles WikiProject Opera. Voceditenore (talk) 13:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, I know, but I found it appealing, and wanted to avoid the "opera singer appears in opera" kind. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:39, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- I will be frank here: the hook is not very interesting to those who are not familiar with opera music. Most people do not know who Solti is, nor why he is significant. Gerda, you have to realize that perhaps a majority of Wikipedia's readers are not familiar with what goes on in the classical music scene, so it's not really a good idea to assume that readers know who most of these people are, or why they are important. I understand that the hook wording was a special request, but honestly right now it doesn't make much sense. Like the typical reader would ask: "who is this Solti person?" "why did Wendels want to leave the Frankfurt Opera?" "is leaving it a big deal"? I don't the hook proposal needs to be abandoned altogether though, all it needs is some additional context about the situation. That way, the typical Wikipedia reader would understand why Solti promising Wendels that she wouldn't leave the Frankfurt Opera was important. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- We have a link to Solti, no? (One of the best-known conductors in the world, but this was early in his career. From his article: "Solti's Ring has twice been voted the greatest recording ever made".) And those not knowing him will not be interested in her either. The why, we simply don't know. I thought that her connection to someone internally famous who appeciated her so much that he asked would be good for her. I don't think if it was Kennedy you'd ask "who is this Kennedy person". Sigh. Back from glamour to local:
- ALT1:
... that among the 100 roles that Marlise Wendels performed in 36 years at the Frankfurt Opera was Rosa in the first staged performance of Henze's Ein Landarzt?--Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:53, 13 February 2019 (UTC)- That doesn't sound like a better option at all. As I mentioned earlier, ALT0 can work, it just needs to be rephrased. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- I suspect Solti's main reason for asking for a promise was that he was getting the fledgling Frankfurt Opera off the ground and hoped that his singers would not use it as mere stepping stone to greater things. Wendels in fact never left the company and sang there for her entire 36 year career. I'll propose another hook below. The reference is the same as for the original hook. Voceditenore (talk) 13:59, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- That doesn't sound like a better option at all. As I mentioned earlier, ALT0 can work, it just needs to be rephrased. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Actually, I didn't propose that as a DYK hook. It was simply a blurb I used when listing new articles WikiProject Opera. Voceditenore (talk) 13:36, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- It's what the author proposed, - look at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera. - It's a speacial person who asked, and a special institution to stay. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:29, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- ALT2:
... that Marlise Wendels sang over 100 soprano roles with Frankfurt Opera and at the height of her career sang in 300 performances in a single season?Voceditenore (talk) 13:59, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Funny story, I was actually about to propose a hook similar to yours but I got an edit conflict. I'll list it below nevertheless:
- ALT3: ... that at the height of the opera career of Marlise Wendels, she would sometimes sing in over 300 performances in a single season?
- Also listing an ALT4:
- ALT4: ... that in her 36 years as a member of the Frankfurt Opera, Marlise Wendels sang over 100 roles that ranged from soubrette to dramatic soprano?
- Those sound like opera-related hooks that non-opera fans might be able to appreciate. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- I quite like ALT4 but in the literature opera singers sing roles rather than play them. Voceditenore (talk) 14:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- Fixed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Thoughts on ALT2, ALT3, and ALT4? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:40, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- No ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:48, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- The other nominator (Voceditenore) seems to like them, though. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:51, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes ;) - go ahead --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- Noted.
New reviewer requested since I proposed ALT3 and ALT4. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:29, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- Noted.
- Yes ;) - go ahead --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- The other nominator (Voceditenore) seems to like them, though. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:51, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- No ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:48, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Thoughts on ALT2, ALT3, and ALT4? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:40, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
- Fixed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:21, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- I quite like ALT4 but in the literature opera singers sing roles rather than play them. Voceditenore (talk) 14:07, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
- ALT3: ... that at the height of the opera career of Marlise Wendels, she would sometimes sing in over 300 performances in a single season?
- Funny story, I was actually about to propose a hook similar to yours but I got an edit conflict. I'll list it below nevertheless:
This does not seem to have had a full review. The article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts in ALT3 and ALT4 are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright issues. A QPQ has been done and I prefer ALT3. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:33, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
