Template:Did you know nominations/Margaret Rodgers (deaconess)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:13, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm going with ALT0. Feel free to revert if you disagree.
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Margaret Rodgers (deaconess) edit
- ... that although deaconess Margaret Rodgers could not be ordained as a priest because of her gender, she was cited as "one of the most powerful people in the Anglican Diocese of Sydney"?
Created by Amandajm (talk). Self nominated at 04:32, 13 June 2014 (UTC).
Let me suggest:
ALT1 ... that though as a woman, deaconess Margaret Rodgers could not be ordained a priest, she was "the secret weapon behind Sydney Anglican’s high profile in the media" and one of its "most powerful people"?
(Just exactly 200). EEng (talk) 02:34, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
I think ALT1 is a better hook and recommend its use. Jack1956 (talk) 06:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)- Oppose change to hook: Jack1956 (talk), The phrase that refers to Margaret as the "Secret weapon" behind the diocese's profile in the media was the opening sentence of an article at the time of her death, written by a media person. It had been put into this present article by EEng immediately in front the last and infinitely more significant quote. The last quote by John Sandeman sums up an extraordinary life, and names her as one of the most significant people in the diocese, despite the odds related to her gender. If you do not come from the diocese of Sydney, then you probably have no idea how significant this is.
- The term "secret weapon" is catchy, but it relates 100% to her media role. This means that the following accolade (which comes at the opposite end of Sandeman's obit) appears to also relate to her media role. This is to seriopusly downplay Margaret Rodgers.
- I don't care how catchy the catch phrase may be. If it means that the final paragraph of the article fails to do justice to the subject, then I would prefer to pass up on the DYK. It is simply not that important to me to score a DYK front page hit, if it means that the acievements of a truly extraordinary person are lost in the attempt.
- Can I suggest that you reread the article, and you will discover that the present last line, and my suggested DYK both leave room for a College Principal, an Archbishop's advisor, a representative at Lambeth, a CEO, a Board Director and a globe-trotting Christian diplomat? "Secret weapon behind the high media profile" doesn't say it. Amandajm (talk) 10:19, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: Yes, having reread the aricle I see what you mean. The ALT hook indeed does not do justice to the subject, who from all acccounts was a truly remarkable person. This article needs to be on the frontpage of Wikipedia so people can read it.
I reinstate the original hook and for all my reasons originally listed above reaffirm that the article is GTG. Jack1956 (talk) 10:38, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- It was just a suggestion. Nonetheless let me also suggest a rewording of ALT0:
- ALT2 ... that though as a woman, deaconess Margaret Rodgers could not be ordained a priest, she was cited as "one of the most powerful people in the Anglican Diocese of Sydney"?
- Myseld I'd drop the "cited as" as well, but you may have some reason for including it. EEng (talk) 11:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- The "cited" confirms that it came from a direct quotation.
- No I don't want to change the "because of her gender" to "though as a woman". This is a "gender issue", as the second Sandeman quote makes clear. It is about an all-pervading perception of gender role. Please don't water it down. Amandajm (talk) 01:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- Jesus Christ, you sure are angry. The quotation marks confirm that it comes from a direct quotation -- cited adds nothing. "As a woman" obviously means "because of her gender" -- unless it was a situation in which she was e.g. too old for the Girl Scouts. These are stylistic, not factual matters, nothing to get your bowels in an uproar about. EEng (talk) 02:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
- Myseld I'd drop the "cited as" as well, but you may have some reason for including it. EEng (talk) 11:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
- I'm happy with either hook. I don't see the difference between "because of her gender" and "though as a woman". Either hook makes it clear she was not ordained due to reasons unrelated to her own merits. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:27, 27 June 2014 (UTC)