- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by EEng (talk) 05:05, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
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Lili Bosse edit
... that Lili Bosse, the current Mayor of Beverly Hills, California, is the only child of two Holocaust survivors?
Created by Zigzig20s (talk). Self nominated at 14:56, 13 June 2014 (UTC).
No QPQ necessary, article length good, interesting hook, hook count good, article content good. Two major questions: in the article, the hook is cited with a probably non-neutral (electlilibosse.com) primary source. Furthermore, this same source is cited 17 different times in the article, sometimes in conjunction with her bio from beverlyhills.org (cited 13 times), but mostly by itself. Question for more experienced DYK reviewers and/or the nominator: does this still comply with DYK's article sourcing rules? APerson (talk!) 23:10, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
- It seems to me that the city website is totally neutral, as it presents the facts about the City of Beverly Hills. As for the campaign website, I only used it for purely objective citations, like where she went to school, etc. I made sure that the tone of the article about be completely unbiased. So I don't think this should be an issue at all.Zigzig20s (talk) 05:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
This hook was pulled from P3 by EEng. Pls see WT:DYK#Lili Bosse. --PFHLai (talk) 15:44, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
- While the new sources confirm that her mother was a Holocaust survivor and give the date of her father's death, there is nothing independent to confirm that her father was also a Holocaust survivor. It would be appropriate to have that. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:24, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
- I want to caution against the city website, as inaccuracies abound. Bosse's bio there says she was vice mayor in 2012-13, but her predecessor John Mirisch was vice mayor then (see this press release for the March 2012 installation of mayor and vice mayor. The city council members rotate through both positions, which change yearly. As the press release announcing Bosse's March 2014 installation as mayor noted that she was vice mayor at the time, indicative of a 2013–14 term as vice mayor, there are clearly problems here, as are the two conflicting years in the press release dates. I don't see how source FN3 establishes much of anything, either that her father is a Holocaust survivor, or that she is an only child, so I'm wondering why it's cited. I'd also like to point out the Mirisch's term also encompassed part of the centennial year, so the article needs to be careful not to make it seem as if Bosse is the mayor for all of it. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:11, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- I don't see why you think she would lie about this on her election website in the first place. She has been very active in Jewish philanthropy, and a lie of this sort would have been the death of it. The Google Books citation mentions her father btw. (Perhaps we need a page for the "1939" Club to explain what the organization stands for.) As for the fact that she is serving during BH's centennial year, it has been all over the Beverly Hills Courier; all celebrations have been under her watch. I am beginning to wonder if this DYK is being blocked out of antisemitism.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- I have added another reference about her parents from The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles. I don't think they would lie about this either! True, we haven't found a full biography of her father, but why should we? I don't think he was a public figure. Private citizens don't always have their obituaries published in the press.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:39, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- I don't see why you think she would lie about this on her election website in the first place. She has been very active in Jewish philanthropy, and a lie of this sort would have been the death of it. The Google Books citation mentions her father btw. (Perhaps we need a page for the "1939" Club to explain what the organization stands for.) As for the fact that she is serving during BH's centennial year, it has been all over the Beverly Hills Courier; all celebrations have been under her watch. I am beginning to wonder if this DYK is being blocked out of antisemitism.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- A rather over-the-top video produced by the city on their website shows then-mayor Mirisch presiding at a centennial celebration (it seems to be a montage of his period in office) and giving a speech about it, so to say that "all celebrations have been under her watch" does not appear to be backed up by the facts. I don't think that Bosse would lie about her background—as you say, it would be political suicide, because such things invariably come out—but people occasionally shade the truth, which is why reliable secondary sources are best. Thanks for the Jewish Journal reference; it should be a sufficiently reliable corroboration. Your suggestion that antisemitism is playing a role here, when we're attempting to ensure the article is sufficiently accurate and sourced so that the nomination can be approved, is extremely ill-judged: it flies in the face of Wikipedia's assume good faith guiding principle. I suggest you bring more patience and good will here to this process. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:33, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- As I said, I don't think specific editors are necessarily antisemitic. I apologise if anybody thought I did. I do think over-questioning everything when it comes to Jewish subject-matters is very suspicious though. And always finding something new. But maybe you just don't like BH if you think it is too "over-the-top"! Anyway I think there was one PRE-centennial event with Mirisch.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:49, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- Let's stop beating a dead hook and try something else.
- ALT1: ... that Lili Bosse, the current Mayor of Beverly Hills, California, was sworn in by actor Sidney Poitier? Yoninah (talk) 22:06, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- That could work. I guess the first hook may have been too "controversial" for some (even though I don't think it is, but whatever...).Zigzig20s (talk) 22:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- Nothing to do with controversy, rather that you didn't have a reliable source for it. And don't you ever pull that antisemitism shit again. EEng (talk) 06:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
- I would imagine The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles to be a perfectly reliable source for my original hook. I would question why someone doesn't think it is. But now I think we should go ahead with ATL1 and then never have to interact again, ever. I also don't talk to people who use the "sugar" (sic) word. Thank you. So, can we please find a new reviewer for the more neutral ATL1?Zigzig20s (talk) 07:38, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
- Nothing to do with controversy, rather that you didn't have a reliable source for it. And don't you ever pull that antisemitism shit again. EEng (talk) 06:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
for the ALT1 hook. Article is new and long enough. It looks as if the concerns from above and from WT:DYK#Lili Bosse have been addressed. No copyvios or incidents of close paraphrasing were detected. Article complies with NPOV and has inline citations. The hook is interesting, neutral, and properly formatted. The hook fact is cited inline. gobonobo + c 04:49, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
- That could work. I guess the first hook may have been too "controversial" for some (even though I don't think it is, but whatever...).Zigzig20s (talk) 22:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- As I said, I don't think specific editors are necessarily antisemitic. I apologise if anybody thought I did. I do think over-questioning everything when it comes to Jewish subject-matters is very suspicious though. And always finding something new. But maybe you just don't like BH if you think it is too "over-the-top"! Anyway I think there was one PRE-centennial event with Mirisch.Zigzig20s (talk) 15:49, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
- A rather over-the-top video produced by the city on their website shows then-mayor Mirisch presiding at a centennial celebration (it seems to be a montage of his period in office) and giving a speech about it, so to say that "all celebrations have been under her watch" does not appear to be backed up by the facts. I don't think that Bosse would lie about her background—as you say, it would be political suicide, because such things invariably come out—but people occasionally shade the truth, which is why reliable secondary sources are best. Thanks for the Jewish Journal reference; it should be a sufficiently reliable corroboration. Your suggestion that antisemitism is playing a role here, when we're attempting to ensure the article is sufficiently accurate and sourced so that the nomination can be approved, is extremely ill-judged: it flies in the face of Wikipedia's assume good faith guiding principle. I suggest you bring more patience and good will here to this process. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:33, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
