- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by -- ɑηsuмaη ʈ ᶏ ɭ Ϟ 05:40, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Jan Uddin edit
... that actor and model Jan Uddin, best known for his role in the BBC soap opera EastEnders, was beaten by his father, who refused to let him watch TV or read books, and one night forced Uddin's family into a van, and took them from Birmingham to Bangladesh?
- ALT2a:... that actor and model Jan Uddin, best known for his role in the BBC soap opera EastEnders as Jalil Iqbal, was beaten by his father, who also refused to let him watch television or read books?
Created/expanded by MayhemMario (talk). Self nom at 16:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
The article is far from meeting the 5x expansion requirement. According to DYKcheck, the article currently stands at 3332 characters, which isn't even a 2x expansion from the 2027 characters found on January 28, 2012, the most recent version before expansion began on February 13, 2012. I frankly don't see any way for this article to get from 3332 to 10135 characters, a further tripling in size, so I'm failing it. The hook, at 255 characters including spaces, was also too long, and was missing the bold article link; I added bolding to show how that should be done.
- This article is a new article, not a 5x expansion. I moved my sandbox to the current article, so it looks like its been made earlier. MayhemMario 17:10, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I misunderstood; this is my first sandbox->mainspace review. In that case, as a new article, it passes the 1500 character minimum and to spare according to DYKcheck, and I'll have to review the article contents and citations. However, the hook is definitely still ineligible. If you want to base it on what's there, I think you need to drop either the TV/books clause or the Birmingham/Bangladesh clause:
ALT1: ... that actor and model Jan Uddin, best known for his role in the BBC soap opera EastEnders, was beaten by his father, who also took the family, unannounced, from Birmingham to Bangladesh?ALT2: ... that actor and model Jan Uddin, best known for his role in the BBC soap opera EastEnders, was beaten by his father, who also refused to let him watch TV or read books?
- Or, of course, you could suggest an ALT3 or a minor revision of the above two; ALT1 is 185 characters, and ALT2 is 167 characters. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:28, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
- Later: Article contents and citations generally look good, as does the use of material from those citations; the one fact that is not explicitly confirmed by reference is the date range of Uddin's appearances on EastEnders, which is stated to be 17–28 March 2008, but the citations referenced are dated 2 and 16 March 2008, before that period, and cover happenings on that show. I'm not much acquainted with such articles—whether they're posted weekly or bi-weekly, cover the events just past or the upcoming week or two—and what their reliability may be. But they none of them mention actual show dates, or even days of the week, and I'm concerned about the inclusion of that date range.
- At the moment, it's just that and the hook that still need to be addressed. I've done some editing in the article regarding other things, and it otherwise looks fine. I should probably note for other readers that the father mentioned in the hook has died, so the "negative aspects of living people" caveat does not apply here. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the edits! I've sorted out the dates, so that's all fixed. I'm, if you dont mind, going to go with ALT2, "... that actor and model Jan Uddin, best known for his role in the BBC soap opera EastEnders as Jalil Iqbal, was beaten by his father, who also refused to let him watch television or read books? (But with some changes). ALT3, sounds like he took them on a holiday, :/ Also, even though has havent expanded this article, could I include it in this DYK, so its on its talk? For instance, Jan Dean is a redirect to Jan Uddin, but Uddin could change his name back to Dean, so could I include it in what the DYK includes? If that make sense? MayhemMario 15:14, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
- I can see your problem with ALT1. I'm fine with you choosing ALT2—though I'd need to know exactly what changes you'd want to make before I could approve it; please list your version as ALT2a or ALT4 if ALT2 needs modification—but how about this if you would rather go with the uprooting:
ALT3: ... that actor and model Jan Uddin, best known for his role in the BBC soap opera EastEnders, was beaten by his father, who also forced the family to move, unannounced, from Birmingham to Bangladesh?
- It's 195 characters, which is pushing it; I'd hate to lose the "unannounced", but suppose the "also" could go if necessary.
- I can see your problem with ALT1. I'm fine with you choosing ALT2—though I'd need to know exactly what changes you'd want to make before I could approve it; please list your version as ALT2a or ALT4 if ALT2 needs modification—but how about this if you would rather go with the uprooting:
- The dates... well, I'm confused. The first of the Digital Spy articles by Kris Green, when I display it, has the following: "Published Sunday, Mar 2 2008, 7:53pm EST", so to give the date in the reference as "date=17 March 2008" doesn't reflect the actual article. Likewise the second Digital Spy, "Published Sunday, Mar 16 2008, 12:14pm EDT". To use any other date in the reference citation date field is simply not correct; the dates in the reference "date=" field will have to match the articles. (I don't care about the ref "name"; that's free form, and not even needed if a reference is only used once in the article, though I think in this case it's shorthand to reflect that one was used to justify the March 17 date, and the other for the March 28 date.) My best guess is that these articles are spoiler summaries for the next two weeks—do you know whether this is the case?—so the March 2 talked about events of the shows to be aired March 3 through 14, with the hint about an old friend about to show up towards the end of these, and the March 16 talked about events broadcast March 17 through 28 and mentions said friend, Jalil, a couple of times by name. The thing is, I'm just guessing, and even if so, can we be sure that Jan's first episode was indeed March 17 and final was actually March 28? It seems to me that the reference does not give that level of granularity. I do realize that this information comes from the EastEnders 2008 character list and is referenced the same way, but I'm sensing an element of WP:OR here, even while admitting I'm someone who is unfamiliar with English soaps.
- As for his initial stage name, Jan Dean, I was thinking that the Jan Uddin article could use at least a sentence or two that specifically mentions Uddin's work under the Dean name (which is seen in the Filmography section). One of the articles has him stating that Boogie Woogie was his first film, but that's as Uddin (he doesn't mention the earlier Dean work). You might also want to be a bit more chronological in this acting career: Dean work, then Boogie Woogie, then EastEnders, then subsequent work. There was a bit more information in those articles that could be used to help flesh out the acting side of things. A little information on modeling (is that 2000 date correct? he would have been 12 or 14 in that case) would also a good eventual addition, if any sources are available. I certainly wouldn't mention Dean in the hook; it's a distraction from the other points, and "could" just isn't the same as "will". As I see it, the hook can be about one of the following in addition to beaten: uprooted, couldn't do TV or books, or started as Dean. At the moment, you have references for the first two, but no secondary source for the Dean name. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:33, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
- Wow! That was a long reply! Sadly, the BBC redirected all the episodes for March 2008, so I cannot refernece it in the same way I would normally. The two references just reference that he made his first appearance on the 17, and his last on the 28. I'll make it clearer in the article. Also i'll change the date/airdate problem too. Uddin appeared in EastEnders before Boogie Woogie. I've done my ALT2, forget about the Jan Dean thing... :) MayhemMario 17:07, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Article length, contents, citations all check out. Hook ALT2a is under 200 characters (190), interesting, facts have citations, the father died several years ago so no BLP issues. Also, this appears to be nominators fourth DYK nomination, so no QPQ requirement. Congratulations!
- Sorry about the reply length; I tend to get carried away. I did do a little more editing on the article, mostly to the cite template (there is no "airdate" field in the cite news template, so I had to remove it), and there was a typo in one of the dates. Otherwise, it looks good. I also renamed your ALT2 to ALT2a so it wouldn't be confused with my original ALT2. Sorry to hear about the BBC messing up their cite; they, of course, would be the most authoritative source as to who was in which episode. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:11, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
- You've been extremely helpfull! And very nice!!! Also what does QPQ mean? MayhemMario 19:14, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
- Quid pro quo (Latin). See Wikipedia:Did you know#Eligibility criteria point 5 -- ɑηsuмaη ʈ ᶏ ɭ Ϟ 05:40, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
- You've been extremely helpfull! And very nice!!! Also what does QPQ mean? MayhemMario 19:14, 16 February 2012 (UTC)