Template:Did you know nominations/Edward J. O’Donnell (military)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 17:48, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Edward J. O'Donnell (military)

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O'Donnell as a Captain in the 1950’s

... that Admiral O'Donnell (pictured) led Naval forces during the covert Bay of Pigs operation?
- Reviewed: ~~Template:Did you know nominations/Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House~~

Source: [1] Created by Halsey1237 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:11, 20 April 2020 (UTC).

The article is new enough, long enough, neutral and the hook is sourced. There is no copuvio problem. But the article had some unreferenced sentenes. Also the QPQ claims to have reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House but as of the time I am reviewing this, I don't see a review there.[2] --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:16, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
COMMENT: This is the first DYK for Halsey1237, so actually, a QPQ is not required (although it would be nice if that DYK does get reviewed). David notMD (talk) 21:15, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Fair enough, the QPQ is not an issue then, just the two unreferenced sentences. I crossed out the claim about QPQ as inaccurate to avoid confusion. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:48, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Halsey1237, though I see you have made a number of additions and added some sourcing to the article, you have yet to address the "citation needed" templates. It is important that you do so if you wish this DYK nomination to pass. Please reply here with your plans to deal with this issue. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset and Piotrus: Done I added the citations, although I don't even know why those two items were in question. Same source took care of both. It has the date he was promoted to Captain. And it also said he was in Monterrey "to date" ... he never left. He died in Monterrey. — Maile (talk) 23:33, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:V, all content should be referenced, not just redflags. Those facts are not common knowledge (WP:SKYISBLUE, etc.). Anyway, we are good now... or that's what I wanted to say, but there is stil an unreferenced paragraph (tagged). @Halsey1237 and Maile66: --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:52, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Piotrus, I've just added a citation in the paragraph (one of the already existing references), though not at the end. If necessary, I suppose O'Donnell's boss(es) could be pulled from the paragraph, since the information isn't needed, especially the two Secretaries of Defense while he was serving at a lower level in the department. However, I think the article could do with a copyedit: there are some odd phrases, contractions, and I don't think the use of "would" is appropriate. I don't know whether Maile would be willing to spearhead what needs to be done (even with GOCE backed up), since Halsey1237 has yet to respond directly on this page. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:05, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Piotrus If this does not satisfy you, please ask someone else to find another source. I just added the same source and was earlier in the paragraph. The last sentence is just a continuation explanation. He served under two men who are linked. Those links, if nothing else, say they worked for Eisenhower (also linked), who was President 1953-1961. We should not require sourcing on this when Eisenhower was President, and we already have Wikipedia articles on all involved. — Maile (talk) 01:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I think this is ok for a DYK now, let's not nitpick this to death. Good enough for me :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I came by to promote this, but the lead is too short. The hook is also rather mundane. He had so many interesting experiences, including serving aboard a ship that was sinking, that I'm sure you can suggest a better hook. Please use his full name in the hook. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 16:51, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The nominator has not edited since June 7. I do not think this hook should be promoted and wonder if some of our creative hook writers would like to have a go at it? Pinging EEng, evrik, Kingsif, Narutolovehinata5. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
It's a shame that more hasn't been written on his role in the BoP invasion. --evrik ^(talk) 00:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, there's the golf course...
ALT1 ... that Admiral Edward Joseph O'Donnell (pictured) passed responsibility for Guantanamo Bay Naval Base to its new commander on a golf course?

It's not the Bay of Pigs, I suppose. E Eng 22:25, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I like the golf one - he sounds like an interesting person, but there's nothing else really in the article to chew from. Kingsif (talk) 22:45, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

ALT2 ... that Admiral O'Donnell (pictured) was a gunnery officer on the aircraft carrier USS Lexington when she was sunk at the Battle of the Coral Sea. --evrik ^(talk) 00:08, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I prefer the golf course hook since it seems more unusual. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:17, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all. Could someone review ALT1 so I can promote it? Pinging evrik Kingsif@Narutolovehinata5:. Yoninah (talk) 08:27, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

While the USS Lexington hook might interest our history-inclined readers, the golf course angle seems to be the hookier option. But I think the best option here would be to combine ALT1 and the original hook (i.e. mention the Bay of Pigs part), and while the resulting hook might be a bit long, it would also seem to be more interesting. The NYT reference as well as the golf course ceremony citation have both been verified, so once that's done this will be good to go. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: please don't wait for anyone else to do it. The nominator has disappeared. Could you offer an alt and then I or someone else will approve it? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 12:43, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that Admiral O'Donnell (pictured), who was commander of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base during the Cuban Missile Crisis, passed responsibility for the base to his successor on a golf course?

It's a bit on the long side and thus might be inappropriate or too complex, so here are two more alternatives that focus more on the commander part, although I'm not sure if either would fly here:

ALT4: ... that Admiral Edward J. O'Donnell (pictured) was commander of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base during the Cuban Missile Crisis?

ALT4a: ... that Admiral Edward J. O'Donnell (pictured) was commander of Guantanamo Bay Naval Base during the Bay of Pigs Invasion?

Even if a reader might not know either the missile crisis or the Bay of Pigs incident, maybe Guantanamo would be enough to catch attention. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Any of the alts approved, with a preference for 3 and then 1. All the alts (besides alt2) seem suitably sourced to this (in article), which mentions the ceremony on the golf course and how long O'Donnell had been commander of the base. Article itself was new enough when nommed. It is long enough, as much as I think we all agree it could see expansion/improvement. Everything appears to be sourced - the medals in the infobox don't have citations next to them, but I don't think that's appropriate. No QPQ needed. Looks good to go. Kingsif (talk) 14:30, 7 July 2020 (UTC)