Wikipedia

Template:Did you know nominations/Economic history of the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos

< Template:Did you know nominations
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:31, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Economic history of the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos

edit
(
)
[[File:|120x133px|Former Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos ]]
Former Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos
  • ... that the Philippine economy under Ferdinand Marcos faced its first major economic crisis because of heavy government borrowing in the lead-up to Marcos' 1969 re-election campaign? Marcos assumed the presidency only in 1965, when things started to spiral downward in the late 1960s as existing policies no longer encouraged rapid growth. The would-be dictator then pursued an aggressive, expensive run for a second term by foraying into the public treasury to boost his campaign, buy votes and threaten voters. The peso crashed in late 1969, and by the dawn of the following year it lost half its value, Conrado de Quiros wrote in "Dead Aim." ....The 1960s crisis, for economists Arsenio Balisacan and Hall Hill, "was triggered by one politician's particularly shameless efforts to maintain a grasp on the reins of the political machinery. - Diola, Camille. "Debt, deprivation and spoils of dictatorship
    • ALT1:... that the Philippine economy under Ferdinand Marcos saw GDP go from nearly 9% growth in 1976, to a recession where the economy contracted by 7.3% for two years, 1984 and 1985? Source:Gross domestic product (GDP) growth peaked right after Marcos’s declaration of Martial law in 1972, reaching nearly 9 percent in 1973 and 1976, partly driven by a commodity boom when the prices of major Philippine commodity exports like coconut and sugar went up. However, it was also under Marcos when the country hit the worst recession in history: a 7.3-percent contraction for 2 successive years in 1984 and 1985, as his grip on power waned. - Guido, Edson Joseph; de los Reyes, Che (2017), "The best of times? Data debunk Marcos's economic 'golden years'", ABSCBN News and Public Affairs
    • ALT2:... that the nosedive of the Philippine economy under Ferdinand Marcos in 1983 traces its roots to debt-driven growth, mostly during Marcos' second term, and during the earliest years of martial law? Source: "This strategy of borrowing heavily was “peculiar to the Marcos period” and carried great risk, De Dios said. It “produced historically impressive growth,” but also “created the conditions for the big collapse later,” he added....The turning point came when the US entered a recession in the third quarter of 1981 and increased interest rates, bloating the cost of Philippine borrowings. Debt servicing then became very difficult for Manila, as with other debt-dependent countries in Latin America. The economy began to decline in 1981, proving debt-driven growth was unsustainable. The country’s exports at the time failed to keep pace with the ballooning debt. - Guido, Edson Joseph; de los Reyes, Che (2017), "The best of times? Data debunk Marcos's economic 'golden years'", ABSCBN News and Public Affairs

Created by Alternativity (talk). Self-nominated at 08:55, 7 November 2018 (UTC).

  • - It appears the article was move to another name. Alternativity, can you please update the hooks to reflect the new title (if needed)? Thanks, Mifter (talk) 07:11, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I have adjusted the links and the DYK template with the new page name. Yoninah (talk) 14:27, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
  • It appears that this has stalled for more than a month and nominator has not returned. Opting for closure. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 09:37, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Have just notified nominator on their talk page; as this hadn't been done previously, allowing a full seven days for a response. If we don't hear from Alternativity by then, the closure process can resume at that time. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:35, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Were Yoninah's changes to the link what was requested? (I thought they were, but I could do further changes if needed.) To be honest I have no idea what to do with the fact that the article was moved while under consideration for a DYK. The process is now a bit confusing to me. So I would totally love suggestions. - Alternativity (talk) 11:06, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh. I have just seen that the article seems to have been moved once more after the changes Yoninah made. Will rethink how to change the wording of the hooks. - Alternativity (talk) 11:09, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi everyone. Submitting proposed what revised hooks I can come up with:

I'm not as happy with them as the originals, but perhaps you have suggestions for how to improve them? Thanks. - Alternativity (talk) 11:27, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

  • Full review needed now that new hooks have been proposed. I've taken the liberty of removing the date range as unnecessary, and changing "Economic history of the Philippines" to "Economy of the Philippines" because it's the economy, not its history, that is the subject of the three revised hooks.) BlueMoonset (talk) 17:04, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
    • Acknowledged with thanks! I'll add that the sources for each hook are quoted in the relevant original version above. (I'll also add that I don't actually have a marked preference for any of the hooks - even Alt0. They were just the facts that seemed most hookworthy to me.) - Alternativity (talk) 04:41, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset, Vincent60030, and Yoninah: It's been almost two months since the last comments here, have your concerns been addressed? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 16:03, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Narutolovehinata5, this has never had a full review, so what we really need is a reviewer to do so. The nominator has proposed new hooks, now they and the article as a whole need reviewing.
Full review still needed. Thanks to anyone who takes this on! BlueMoonset (talk) 16:25, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

 Doing... starting a full review for this nomination. This might taken an hour or so, since it's a big article. Flibirigit (talk) 22:21, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - ?
  • Interesting: No - ?
QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article created on November 2, and nominated within seven days. Length is more than adequate. Article is neutral in tone, and supplies adequate footnotes and citations for controversial statements. QPQ is not required. The last paragraph in the "Buildup of economic control" section needs a citation. The last paragraph in the "Deficit spending and foreign loans in Marcos’ first presidential term" section needs a citation at the end. The first paragraph in the "Export-oriented industrialization and labor policy" section needs a citation. Third paragraph in the "Economic nosedive and Marcos ouster (1981-1986)" section needs a citation at the end. Lastly, I advise against using the monument photo in this nomination unless the hook is about it somehow. There are a couple minor paraphrasing concerns as well. In the "1979 oil crisis" section, "when the US entered a recession in the third quarter of 1981" is too close to the source. In the "Economic nosedive and Marcos ouster (1981-1986)" section, "recession in the third quarter of 1981" is too close to the source. In the "Expansion of crony capitalism" section, "crony capitalism" needs to be in quotation marks. When multiple citations are used they should be numerical, such as [1][2][3]. Decades need to be more consistent, all should read 1970s instead of 70s. Will resume the review shortly for neutrality, and the hooks. ALT1 and ALT2 are too narrow to appeal to a broad audience due to business jargon. ALT0 is a bit more relatable, but I think we can do better. I'm going to list a few ideas of what I find interesting. Flibirigit (talk) 00:49, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Interesting things for hooks

  1. Before Marcos first became President in 1965, the Philippines was already the second largest economy in Asia
  2. However, many sectors of the Philippine economy were controlled by the traditional elite
  3. promise of “performance” as “Rice ,Roads, and Schoolbuildings,”
  4. Marcos declared martial law in September, 1972, and because he packaged it as a way of introducing stability in light of the social unrest
  5. “Although security threats, some real and some faked, provided the rationale for declaring martial law, the justification for maintaining it quickly became the promise of higher economic growth and greater equality.'
  6. Expansion of crony capitalism
  • These are general ideas I find interesting, looking at the article from a historian's point of view. Please explore some unique wordings for these ideas. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the input so far. I'll try and address them as soon as I can. (I've just got to get a few meetings out of the way, and will be able to do this over the weekend.) Cheers! - Alternativity (talk) 13:22, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Slow progress is better than no progress :) Flibirigit (talk) 15:18, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Addressed the places where the lack of sources was identified; played around with different ways to say that the US economy went into recession in the third quarter of 1981; changed all instances of 70s and 80s to 1970s and 1980s; put crony capitalism in quotation marks; will try to better address issues when I can.  :) - Alternativity (talk) 15:34, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm uncertain where the multiple citations aren't numerical? :) - Alternativity (talk) 15:37, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the updates. I will go through them in more details later today. For the citations, see the first sentence of the article for example:

The 21-year period of Philippine economic history during Ferdinand Marcos’ regime - from his election in 1965 until he was ousted by the People Power Revolution in 1986- was a period of significant economic highs and lows.[3][1][4][5]

The citations at the end should be ... [1][3][4][5]. There are similar situation to fix in the article. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 16:16, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Note: while having multiple citations together be in numeric order is ultimately a desirable thing, it is not required for DYK. I believe it is required for Featured Articles, and I used to get asked for it at GAN, but a DYK should be eligible for passage so long as the source citations are included, regardless of order. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:28, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
@Alternativity: I apologize for being distracted for a couple days with other things. I will start going through the changes now. Flibirigit (talk) 20:03, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
I am happy with the sourcing. I will keep going through the changes a bit later today. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 20:55, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
I am also satisfied with the policy adherements and paraphrasing. Have you had time to consider new hooks based on my suggestions above? Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 23:32, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi Flibirigit. Having given the proposed facts a good look, I'm afraid I had concerns with most of them, and could only make a proposal out of one of them (#1).

Details:

  1. The "already" here will require context; if you're not familiar with the crash of 83, then you won't really understand the significance of the fact. But maybe this will do? ... that the economy of the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos started out as the second largest in Asia in 1965, but began crashing the late 1970s while he ruled the country under Martial Law? (193 characters with spaces) I suppose that can be the new Alt 2?
  2. "were" here is potentially misleading, since it has mostly remained controlled by the "traditional elite", and the term itself requires extensive explanation.
  3. Since this is a campaign promise, I feel that the fact requires an acknowledgement of whether or not the promise was kept; the answer would require exceeding 200 char.
  4. More about politics than it is about the actual economy, so I'm not sure it works.
  5. I feel that this fact, without the context provided in the article, would be POV
  6. Well, this is a plain fact. But without context and attribution and the evidence cited in the article, this would sound very POV. Also, I'm reproposing the old Alt 2, but phrased this way: ... that the crash of the economy of the Philippines under Ferdinand Marcos in 1983 has been attributed to debt from foreign-funded projects during Marcos' second term? (168 characters with spaces) I suppose that can be the new Alt 1? I am, of course, perfectly happy with Alt 0.
Thanks! - Alternativity (talk) 14:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I have grouped the remaining hooks here:

Will analyze these today. Flibirigit (talk) 16:45, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The hooks ALT0, ALT3 and ALT4 are verified by citations inline, mentioned in the article with similar wording, and have been shortened to be interesting to a broad audience. Flibirigit (talk) 22:37, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Flibirigit. I just realized that Alt0 and Alt4 are very similar, but 0 is much more interesting, so I far prefer going with that. Alt 3 is okay too; I like it almost as much as Alt 0. Hm. I note with some pleasure that the anniversary of the People Power Revolution is coming up in two days... or rather has already begun if one chooses to remember all three days of the revolution, rather than its ending. I begin to wonder if maybe this will make it to the front page by the time Feb 25 rolls into GMTplus8? It'd be nice, but I understand if that's very short notice. - Alternativity (talk) 18:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
I have noted the request at WT:DYK, but no guarantees. Flibirigit (talk) 19:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Economic_history_of_the_Philippines_under_Ferdinand_Marcos&oldid=1025912294"