- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by Allen3 talk 15:11, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Insufficient progress toward resolving outstanding issues
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Desi daru
edit
- ... that Desi daru is India's cheapest and largest selling alcoholic beverage and most popular in village population?
Created by Human3015 (talk). Self-nominated at 07:11, 8 August 2015 (UTC).
The hook doesn't seem to have a citation in the article. If you're going for a hook about the drink's popularity, the livemint source has a few promising facts. Otherwise, the article is long enough, although it probably could use a copyedit. APerson (talk!) 03:43, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
Two weeks since the initial review and there appears to have been no progress in adding the needed citation(s). Initial review provided a notification to the nominator which has been archived, so as per normal Wikipedia conventions the nominator is assumed to be aware of the issue. --Allen3 talk 17:20, 14 September 2015 (UTC)- @APerson and Allen3: Sorry for late reply. Article already has many citations. All claims in hook has citations in article. Desi daru being famous in village population (this source), also largest selling liquor in India this source of Hindu Business Line says that 2/3rd of the liquor sell in India is of illicit alcohol. I think this really deserves place in DYK section. This is something different kind of article. Most of the stuff related to villages is ignored by us, I think village stuff should also get chance somewhere. And this is about major country like India which has so enormous population, and more than 60% of them live in villages.--Human3015TALK 03:55, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- And as far as copy-editing is concerned, if you see edit history of the article, very much copy-editing is already done by some other users, for example Northamerica1000 has 10-11 edits to article dedicated copy-editing, also some more users has done some minor copy-editing. --Human3015TALK 04:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I think that the hook has a problem too. It's singling out India, whereas the drink is popular in the whole of South Asia. An alternate hook needs to be proposed. Moreover, the article is not presenting detailed consumption and health issues in countries other than India and it only gives details about the Indian village population. It should be improved to reflect status in other SOuth Asian countries too. Faizan (talk) 07:05, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Faizan: If you see those bottles, "Desi daru" has been written on them in devanagari script. Desi daru is the licensed brand in India, is there any licensed brand named "Desi daru" in Pakistan or other South Asian countries?? I think article should be improved and should be made India specific because it is article about a alcoholic brand in India. For example Pakistani leading news paper Dawn using word "Desi daru" with respect to India also calling it "licensed". read this. So there is no issue of elaborating article on other South Asian countries.--Human3015TALK 07:16, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- There is no such "brand" named "Desi daru", nor it's a "registered trademark." The article should not be India specific. YOu are not getting to the point. Desi daru or Desi Sharab is brewed in the whole South Asia. Faizan (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- Do you think that pic of bottles is photoshopped? Do you think that reliable sources are false? Article is about Indian brand "Desi daru". --Human3015TALK 07:39, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- A "picture of a bottle in non-English script" is not a reliable source, whether or not it's photo-shopped. Can you produce a single source which explicitly states that the "Desi daru" is a brand? Desi daru is not a brand like Black Dog Scotch Whisky, Bagpiper (whisky) or Kingfisher (beer). It rather refers to the locally produced alcohol in Putting-out system#Cottage industry. Faizan (talk) 07:44, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- There is no such "brand" named "Desi daru", nor it's a "registered trademark." The article should not be India specific. YOu are not getting to the point. Desi daru or Desi Sharab is brewed in the whole South Asia. Faizan (talk) 07:34, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Faizan: If you see those bottles, "Desi daru" has been written on them in devanagari script. Desi daru is the licensed brand in India, is there any licensed brand named "Desi daru" in Pakistan or other South Asian countries?? I think article should be improved and should be made India specific because it is article about a alcoholic brand in India. For example Pakistani leading news paper Dawn using word "Desi daru" with respect to India also calling it "licensed". read this. So there is no issue of elaborating article on other South Asian countries.--Human3015TALK 07:16, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- And as far as copy-editing is concerned, if you see edit history of the article, very much copy-editing is already done by some other users, for example Northamerica1000 has 10-11 edits to article dedicated copy-editing, also some more users has done some minor copy-editing. --Human3015TALK 04:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
@Faizan: At least you should provide wikipedia policy link stating non-English sources are not reliable. There is no such policy. I have already given sources that Desi daru is licensed brand. I think you have done with your opinion and we should close this matter. You are saying "health issues" of other countries are not written", are you serious? We write health issues on Humans, humans are same everywhere, there is no need to keep on writing that "it caused deaths in Bhutan"., "it caused deaths in Maldives", "it caused deaths in Nepal" and so on. You are saying article is "incomplete", here we are discussing DYK nomination, not about giving "Featured article" status to this article. Article fulfills criteria of length for DYK nomination, it is well sourced and well written and thats enough. If you have any issue with content then raise that issue at articles's talk page. You also usually edit that article so I can understand your concern but this is really not discussion regarding giving featured status to article. Actually I'm also not so keen to get it nominated for DYK because it is article about brand of alcohol, but anyway I will try any tourism related article to get it nominated. But still this article is very nice. Thank you.--Human3015TALK 08:46, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
- I would like to thank the nominator for proposing this, but there are a number of issues that make this article unsuitable for DYK:
- Lack of appropriate citations. The first paragraph of "Social issues" and the other three points in "In popular culture" need to be sourced with an inline citation, per Rule 4 - WP:Verifiability. On top of that, existing citations are not necessarily used to support what is written. For example:
Term Desi daaru is often used as opposite to English whisky
is sourced to this book, which refers toSimilarily, in India, "Desi liquor" is native liquor (such as toddy or arrack, as opposed to English whiskey or Caribbean rum)
. I'm not sure how that matches up (or makes sense), since the source only differentiates foreign imports from domestically produced alcohol. This source statesThe Lancet magazine points out that two-thirds of alcohol consumed in India is unrecorded, mainly illicit
, not that it is thelargest selling liquor in India this source of Hindu Business Line says that 2/3rd of the liquor sell in India is of illicit alcohol
as written above and in the article. - Hook issues. Both ungrammatical and not directly sourced at the end of each sentence, per Rule 3. The sources provided above make no mention of of this particular beverage in that context. I cannot find
Desi daru being famous in village population
in this book and even if I had, it does not support what is stated in the hook. Each of the following three points need to be written in the article with inline citations:
- cheapest
- largest selling - was highest/top selling meant? I can't tell without a source but large is not usually used in this context.
- most popular in village population - popular in Indian villages? Again unsure how to reword this without a reference.
- Grammatical errors. Best case, it's an awkward read; worse case, it's inaccurate. I don't think this was written by a native English speaker, which is not a problem in itself, but does become one when it starts to affect how an article is written. Just looking at the lead - articles are used quite sporadically, as are mid-sentence common word capitialisations. I could overlook it if this was the only issue (not looking for perfection here) but, as mentioned above, not when it unintentionally misinterprets a source. An editor with a more fluent grasp of English should take a jab at copyediting this.
- Copyright violations. (Rule 4 - WP:Copyright violations) From the lead,
prepared from recipes passed down for centuries. It is mainstay alcoholic beverage for India's village population and urban poor
is taken from this book. The "Preparation" section is lifted straight from The Economic Times.
- Lack of appropriate citations. The first paragraph of "Social issues" and the other three points in "In popular culture" need to be sourced with an inline citation, per Rule 4 - WP:Verifiability. On top of that, existing citations are not necessarily used to support what is written. For example:
- To pass it in this state is begging for a WT:DYK
rantcomplaint. On the plus side: it was submitted on time (2-8 Aug), is long enough (~2,800 chars), CC-by-SA 4.0 on the image license (AGF on the authorship) and does not require a QPQ, since the nominator does not have any prior DYK credits. Note that while I hope that someone can address these issues, I do think arewritelarge amount of effort will be required - hence that particular review symbol. Fuebaey (talk) 00:04, 21 September 2015 (UTC)- Thanks Fuebaey for your nice and detailed review. I have tried to address your points, I have removed copyright issues from article. I have added sources for "In Popular Culture". Regarding grammatical issues in article, I think if article is having few grammatical mistakes still it is not good to reject on the basis of that, article has been copy-edited and reviewed by many other editors for minor issues including one native English speaker admin. Article actually has sources for claims made in the hook. Still I will propose a more simple hook keeping in mind all above discussion.
- ALT1: ...that, Desi daru is an indigenously made alcoholic beverage in Indian subcontinent and mainstay for village population?
I think this hook has all direct sources in article, article do says it is famous or mainstay in villages. --Human3015TALK 22:19, 22 September 2015 (UTC)