- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:36, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
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Brenva Glacier
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Debris-covered lower slopes of the Brenva Glacier
- ...
that when a huge rockfall near Mont Blanc covered part of the Brenva Glacier (pictured) in 1920, it caused it to advance 490 m (1,610 ft) over 20 years, whilst all other glaciers in the Alps were in retreat?
Source 1: The 1920 deposit on the glacier caused an advance until 1940, the only one of this kind in the Alps.(cited in Abstract); Source 2: The 1920 avalanche augmented the debris cover in the ablation zone, causing the glacier to advance 490m between 1920 and 1941; in contrast, neighboring glaciers retreated from the mid-1920s onward. (Singh, page 117, first para.)- ALT1:... that the Brenva Glacier (pictured) near Mont Blanc in the Alps is the second longest glacier in Italy, at 6.7 mi (10.8 km)? Source: The Brenva valley glacier is the second largest on the Italian side of Mont Blanc with a surface area of about 7 square kilometers and about 6,700 meters long.(Aosta official tourism site)
- ALT2: ...
that when a massive rockfall covered part of the Brenva Glacier (pictured) it caused it to lengthen considerably, and at a time when all other glaciers in the Alps were retreating?(Source: same as ALT-0)
- Reviewed: Ochetostoma erythrogrammon.
Created by Nick Moyes (talk). Self-nominated at 15:32, 10 February 2019 (UTC).
Doing... starting review for nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 20:14, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- ? - Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - ?
- Interesting: - ?
| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Article moved to mainspace on February 6, and nominated on February 10. Length is adequate. Neutral in tone. No plagiarism issues detected. Photo is clear, and properly licensed on the commons. QPQ completed. First paragraph in the description section is missing a citation.
Done
The last sentence in the first paragraph of the Rockfall and glacial advance section is not cited. Done
Both hooks are cited and discussed in the article, however ALT0 is very wordy and may not be appealing. I suggest simplifying along the lines of the only glacier in the region to expand when others shrank. Flibirigit (talk) 20:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. I have managed to deal with one issue straight away, and hope to deal with the rest over the next 24 hrs or so when I am back online. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:02, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: Both your concerns on citation have been addressed and marked as 'done' (I have deleted the uncited, bracketed statement which you were rightly concerned about, and which I had put in brackets to remind me to check & cite, but then failed to remove (doh!) from my draft when I moved it to mainspace on 6th February. Whilst the length of the glacier was affected by rockfall, it was a step too far, and probably WP:OR for me to refer to its "shape" being affected. So that's now gone. What remains doesn't need to be cited as it serves purely as an intro to the subsequent paragraphs. It would be nitpicking to worry that this isn't a 5-fold expansion, but a new article; the effect is the same. Whilst I think ALT-0 is far more interesting, and preferable, to ALT-1, how about a shorter version still referring to the amazing fact of a rockfall causing a glacier to lengthen? So, I offer ALT-2 above. Thank you very much for your time in reviewing this article. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:59, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Nick Moyes:I have looked into the sources more closely, and unfortunately need to strike both ALT0 and ALT2, since the two sources do not say the same, specifically the word "all". The Singh reference says "in contrast, neighboring glaciers retreated from the mid-1920s onward", whereas the Deline reference says "the only one of this kind in the Alps". The discrepancy here is "neighboring" versus "the only one", and this will get challenged and mentioned at ERRORS. That section in the article will need to be reworked, considering the two sources. The introductory sentence you mention contains the statement, "extremely significant rockfalls". The question then is what is extremely significant, and to whom? This will also get challenged. I suggest removing the sentence and letting the paragraphs introduce themselves. ALT1 is still adequate in lieu of no other suggested hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 04:07, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: You were quite right to challenge and strike this. I have modified the article to refer to "glaciers nearby", which is still covered by the other statement "only one in the Alps. It was perhaps over-eager on my part to state "all" in the hook. And I'm happy to go with that the safe one. I don't want to prolong this, but I could still offer this modification for you to consider:
- ALT3: ... that when a massive rockfall in 1920 covered part of the Brenva Glacier (pictured) it caused it to lengthen considerably, and at a time when nearby glaciers were
allretreating? (Source: same as ALT-0)
- ALT3: ... that when a massive rockfall in 1920 covered part of the Brenva Glacier (pictured) it caused it to lengthen considerably, and at a time when nearby glaciers were
- Sorry for the delay in responding - I normally edit on a smartphone, and needed access to a proper keyboard to deal with this. If you're still not convinced, we should go with ALT-1, despite it being rather bland. Thanks for your diligence and patience.Nick Moyes (talk) 02:16, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I have removed the one challenged statement, and struck the word "all" from ALT3. The article, along with ALT1 and ALT3 are now good to go. Flibirigit (talk) 02:27, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. I hope ALT-3 will be the one to be used -far more interesting! Nick Moyes (talk) 14:28, 26 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Flibirigit: You were quite right to challenge and strike this. I have modified the article to refer to "glaciers nearby", which is still covered by the other statement "only one in the Alps. It was perhaps over-eager on my part to state "all" in the hook. And I'm happy to go with that the safe one. I don't want to prolong this, but I could still offer this modification for you to consider:
- @Nick Moyes:I have looked into the sources more closely, and unfortunately need to strike both ALT0 and ALT2, since the two sources do not say the same, specifically the word "all". The Singh reference says "in contrast, neighboring glaciers retreated from the mid-1920s onward", whereas the Deline reference says "the only one of this kind in the Alps". The discrepancy here is "neighboring" versus "the only one", and this will get challenged and mentioned at ERRORS. That section in the article will need to be reworked, considering the two sources. The introductory sentence you mention contains the statement, "extremely significant rockfalls". The question then is what is extremely significant, and to whom? This will also get challenged. I suggest removing the sentence and letting the paragraphs introduce themselves. ALT1 is still adequate in lieu of no other suggested hooks. Flibirigit (talk) 04:07, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
