- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:36, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
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Adele Spitzeder
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... that according to some sources, Adele Spitzeder (pictured) invented the ponzi scheme in 1869?ALT1:... that between 1869 and 1872, Adele Spitzeder (pictured) defrauded some 32,000 customers of 38 million Gulden (roughly 400 million euro)?
Created by SoWhy (talk). Self-nominated at 17:50, 12 January 2019 (UTC).
- Comment: @SoWhy: I couldn't find the first hook fact in the sources given; apparently, they only speak of using pyramid system. So please explicitly cite a source that support the hook fact if you want to keep it. --Z 15:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- @ZxxZxxZ: The problem stems from the fact that in German there is no distinction between "ponzi" or "pyramid", both are summarized as "snowball" schemes. This source mentions her at the same time as Madoff and Ponzi but points out that "ponzi", "snowball" and "chain letter" are used synonymously these days. This source calls her one of Ponzi's forerunners. This paper contains the sentence "Two early historical examples of documented Ponzi schemes are Adele Spitzeder’s “Dachauer Bank” that operated a couple of years until 1872 in Germany". Is any of those sufficient? Then I will add it to the article. Otherwise I'll check for more later. I'm okay with changing "ponzi scheme" to "snowball scheme" as well though. Regards SoWhy 16:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarification, that's true. But the tone in the first hook has made it interesting at the cost of accuracy. Apparently, the provided sources use a more cautious tone and none of them exactly claim that this person was the inventor of the ponzi scheme, and although the reader may interpret them as such, the article should reflect the sources exactly as they are. I think the hook can be rephrased a bit to make it more consistent with the sources. --Z 17:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- The German word has two different translations and the English sources tell us which translation is correct, so the question is whether it's a violation of WP:SYNTH to base the translation off the English sources. To that effect, I have opened a question at WP:NORN and am waiting for responses. Regards SoWhy 20:33, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarification, that's true. But the tone in the first hook has made it interesting at the cost of accuracy. Apparently, the provided sources use a more cautious tone and none of them exactly claim that this person was the inventor of the ponzi scheme, and although the reader may interpret them as such, the article should reflect the sources exactly as they are. I think the hook can be rephrased a bit to make it more consistent with the sources. --Z 17:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- @ZxxZxxZ: The problem stems from the fact that in German there is no distinction between "ponzi" or "pyramid", both are summarized as "snowball" schemes. This source mentions her at the same time as Madoff and Ponzi but points out that "ponzi", "snowball" and "chain letter" are used synonymously these days. This source calls her one of Ponzi's forerunners. This paper contains the sentence "Two early historical examples of documented Ponzi schemes are Adele Spitzeder’s “Dachauer Bank” that operated a couple of years until 1872 in Germany". Is any of those sufficient? Then I will add it to the article. Otherwise I'll check for more later. I'm okay with changing "ponzi scheme" to "snowball scheme" as well though. Regards SoWhy 16:45, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- @ZxxZxxZ: Sorry for the delay. My question at NORN only got one reply so far with that user agreeing that the translation is not in violation of WP:SYNTH. How about
- ALT2: ... that some sources believe Adele Spitzeder (pictured) created the first documented ponzi scheme in 1869?
- I'd be okay with using ALT1 if you still have concerns or asking for a second opinion. Regards SoWhy 12:14, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- @ZxxZxxZ: Sorry for the delay. My question at NORN only got one reply so far with that user agreeing that the translation is not in violation of WP:SYNTH. How about
- Comment: @SoWhy: I couldn't find the first hook fact in the sources given; apparently, they only speak of using pyramid system. So please explicitly cite a source that support the hook fact if you want to keep it. --Z 15:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, everything looks good now.
--Z 13:05, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
