Talk:Youtiao/Archive 1

Archive 1

Sources

Somebody (Bwithh?) requested sources for the origin of the name. I certainly remember various history textbooks have that reference, but unfortunately I am not, and won't be in the forseeable future, in front of my chinese history books, which are over 10,000 miles away. I found certain references on the web, but I am not very comfortable with quoting either non-published work (from Yahoo! knowledge and various blogs), or pieces originating from the notoriously unreliable Xinhua. Does anyone have a good reference suggestion? Kommodorekerz 22:33, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Wikipedian policy of requesting sources for everything, I have to ask the policymakers a question: How are people supposed to cite sources for things that are common sense? Sorry, instead of keeping knowledge, this policy seems to have the goal of suppressing knowledge, even to the point of trying to eradicate common sense from people's minds (especially non–English-speakers's minds) by labelling them as "uncited", and misleading other people into believing that such "uncited" ("uncitable" may be a more accurate word) knowledge as somehow being inferior. Or maybe this is truly what the editors want. some sort of social engineering or cultural imperialism experiment.—Gniw (Wing) 04:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

This is like asking an American to cite the source for "ketchup is a common condiment for hot dogs..." —Cecikierk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.75.181 (talk) 03:19, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

D.S

I would like to add a recipe from my great grand-mother on YOUTIAO Ingredients: 1 1/4 cups self-rising flour 2 teaspoons baking powder 1 1/2 teaspoons salt 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1/3 cup lukewarm water peanut oil Instructions: Mix flour, baking powder, baking soda, and salt. Stir in water. Lightly knead dough. Loosely cover for about 20 minutes, or enough time for the dough to rise. On floured surface, roll the dough into 2 inch wide and 14 inch long strips. Twist together in pairs, pinching the ends. Holding each end of twists, pull until 9 inches long. Deep fry each twist in peanut oil until golden brown (about 25 seconds) Let cool and eat.

YOUTIAO in my house is usually severed with Chicken or Pork.

Variations

Can somebody please tell me just why the hell this article somehow seems to describe a number of completely different and non-related food items. "油條" and "油炸鬼" is the same thing. It is a form of wheat based fried dough that usually come in the twin stick form and is salted not sweetened. The manchurian's (满洲) fried dough "油條" is the four stick type of fried dough "油條". To be honest. personally I have no right to comment on the likes of "白糖粿", but to say it may or may not be salted and is sweetened further more it does not looks anything like the true "油條/油炸鬼". "白糖糕" is a type of rice based white sweetened steamed sponge cake and it got nothing to do with the likes of the wheat based fried dough "油條/油炸鬼". "燒餅" is usually refer to the likes of flatbread or sometime misused on the likes of pancakes. While it is wheat based, it is not related to fried dough "油條/油炸鬼" as well. Zhaliang "炸兩" however is related but it should be put into the steamed rice roll's "steamed 肠粉" page as it is just a type of steamed rice roll "steamed 肠粉" that come with a single stick of fried dough "油條/油炸鬼" as its stuffing. And also can somebody please add some pictures of a complete fried dough "油條/油炸鬼" (not the cut to pieces type) in this article so people can have a better chance of understand just what the hell is a true fried dough "油條/油炸鬼" is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.239.237 (talk • contribs)

The following section has been moved out. Not every dough item fried in oil is a Youtiao. It deserves another article. Benjwong (talk) 15:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

"In Thailand, "youtiao" is generally called "patongkoh" (ปาท่องโก๋, Thai) due to a confusion with another different kind of dessert. Actually, "patongkoh" is a corrupt pronunciation of either chaozhou dialect of 白糖粿 (mandarin:bái táng guǒ; chaozhou dialect: beh teung guai) or cantonese dialect of 白糖糕 (mandarin:bái táng gāo; cantonese dialect: baak6 tong4 gou1). However, both possible original names are different desserts . "Baitangguo" (白糖粿) is a fried rice flour dough coated with icing sugar or optionally sprinkled with black sesame, while "Baitanggao" (白糖糕) is a white sugar sponge cake. Whatever it is supposed to be, it was previously sold together with "youtiao"/"iu char kuai" by street vendors who normally walked around and shouted both names out loud. However, Thai customers often mistakenly thought that the more popular "iu cha kuai"/"youtiao" was "patongkoh". Eventually, the real "patongkoh" disappeared from the market because of its unpopularity. Ironically, the disappearance of real "patongkoh" leaves "youtiao" being called under the former's name, but the latter's real name is generally unknown amongst the Thai though it is popular for breakfast. The traditional Baitanggao (白糖糕) can still be easily found in Trang Province in Southern Thailand with its correct name. Baitangguo (白糖粿) is also found widely sold in Tainan city of Taiwan."

Not the same

I read this article before and see nothing wrong to include the removed paragraph in it. It was placed in the section of "NAMES" and there is information on how different groups of people call "Youtiao" differently. The removed paragraph explains how Thai people call "Youtiao" and how the name evolves into something totally different from the original name due to some confusions. I think any information related to variation of its name should also be included to expand the article richness of information on the issue. It could also be useful in some situation, For example, if you are travellers and familiar with the name "Youtiao" but when you go to Thailand and order Youtiao you won't get it. But you need to know it is called something else. To be honest (as the above commentator also used), when I read the removed paragraph I don't think the person who added this infomation didn't or intended to explain other types of desserts. He/she has to mentioned about them because they are sources of misundestanding and confusion in the name of Youtiao. So, I think it deserves to be placed back. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.121.141.182 (talk) 18:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It is not the same. What you are proposing is like putting donuts and bagels together. It is separate. It is best if you create a Thai article with the official pictures, names, pronounciations and make a link here. Even if the primary pronunciations is youtiao, it still doesn't make it the same. Benjwong (talk) 15:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

It's the same

That deleted part mainly talks about another name variation of "youtiao" called by Thai people. It just explains why "youtiao" in Thailand has incorrectly called under the other dessert name. That's all. It's still about "Youtiao" (i.e. "patongkoh" in Thailand is exactly like "youtiao" in other countries). It does not intend to discuss about "baitanguo" if the above commentator have read it carefully. To use his analogy, the removed paragraph just explains why "donut" is called "bagel" in, say, The Heavenland. "Bagel" in the Heavenland is still made exactly the same way donut is made in other countries, looks and tastes exactly like donut in other countries as well. The only difference is "donut" is mistakenly called "bagel" in the Heavenland. So, that removed paragraph just wants to record the history of this name change. It's just a more elaboration (particularly in the case of Thailand) of the information in the above paraphraph mentioning how "youtiao" is called in different countries, i.e in Myanmar, the Philippines, Cambodia and Australia. I think if Wikipedia is to give the public a relevant knowledge of the issue this historical record has its own right to be written on the page under this sub-title. Moreover, it doesn't need to create a separate link as the commentator suggested. The "youtiao" or "patongkoh" page in Thai language already exists: http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/ปาท่องโก๋ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.121.141.159 (talk) 18:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I did a search of ปาท่องโก๋ on images.google and about half the pictures do not look like youtiao at all. I am not trying to block you. It just seems fried dough has a better chance of being mistaken as youtiao than patongkoh. And there is no section for comparing fried dough and youtiao. Benjwong (talk) 23:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing. However, I also did my research and read a lot about the history of youtiao in Thailand. All the information points to the same conclusion that the name became "patongkoh" as the removed paragraph mentions. Perhaps, the only physical difference between general chinese youtiao and the Thai one is the length. Thai youtiao or patongkoh is normally much shorter than in other countries. The taste and its texture are the same. Thai people normally eat it with chinese rice congee or dip it into sweetened condensed milk. I also ate youtiao in Taiwan, China, HK, US and Australia (Chinatowns) and can confirm that they are all the same.

Page move without discussion

Why was this page just moved, via insistent reversion/edit warring, to "You tiao" from "Youtiao," when the editor moving the page has been asked at least six times not to move pages in such a manner, prior to thoughtful, considered discussion and the providing of evidence for such a move? We simply don't move pages on whims, or based on guesses, and we certainly don't insistently move pages when asked not to. Editing Wikipedia is a privilege that takes seriousness, and time, and our fundamentally collaborative process should be respected. Kindly don't do so again, at this page or any other.

Attacking people for making bold edits shouldn't be done either. Assuming people base their edits on "whims" or "guesses", calling them not serious, or that they disrupt this "fundamentally collaborative process" is insulting to say the least. Please stop using talk pages as a way to demean people.

Anyways, it's not a matter of the most common name here as there's hardly any Google hits on this subject (which isn't a very good indicator of basing moves on in the first place), but what the correct romanization is. 油 and 條 are two different subjects entirely so it doesn't make sense to scrunch it up into one word. GraYoshi2x►^talk 22:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, Google search clearly gives a 2 to 1 margin for "You tiao" and "Youtiao" respectively. Over our past few conversations it seems that you're using either Google Books search or just Google search, depending on which has the most hits for the romanization you like. I find this process... rather strange, don't you think? GraYoshi2x►^talk 22:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I was the one who did this. Kindly refrain from insulting me. See this link: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/2010-09/06/content_11273602.htm. You have a problem with Oxford, regarded as an authoritative source for these? Is there anything wrong with collating two syllables together, which is the standard for pinyin? Go read pinyin. This is the standard, not a personal preference. On Google search "youtiao" has 63,900 hits[1], "you tiao" has 47,100 hits.[2] DORC (talk) 13:20, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

To the first poster: I was not asked six times, but once, ie. for a single subject only. Anyone can check my talk page. Further, I moved it for a simple reason: Yue Opera can mean two different operas, 越 and 粤, pronounced in exactly the same way. DORC (talk) 13:24, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Google Books search

• "Youtiao" = 144 hits
• "you+tiao"&btnG=Search+Books "You tiao" = 54 hits

Badagnani (talk) 06:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

"Youtiao" or "you tiao"

I think this article should be named "youtiao". According to the standard practice of writing multi-syllabic Chinese words in pinyin, there are no spaces in between the syllables, e.g. pinyin (pinyin), yufa (grammar), etc. 81.131.17.101 (talk) 04:43, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

See what academics say

• http://scholar.google.cn/scholar?hl=zh-CN&as_sdt=2000&q=%E6%B2%B9%E6%9D%A1+youtiao

--222.67.218.164 (talk) 04:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

* http://scholar.google.cn/scholar?hl=zh-CN&q=%E6%B2%B9%E6%9D%A1+you+tiao&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&lr=&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

--222.67.218.164 (talk) 04:21, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

* http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=%22%E6%B2%B9%E6%9D%A1%22+donut+edu.cn&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&aq=f&oq=

--222.67.218.164 (talk) 04:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

* http://scholar.google.cn/scholar?q=%E6%B2%B9%E6%9D%A1+bread&hl=zh-CN&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&lr=

--222.67.218.164 (talk) 04:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

* http://scholar.google.cn/scholar?hl=zh-CN&q=%E6%B2%B9%E6%9D%A1+Dough+Sticks&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&lr=&as_ylo=&as_vis=0

--222.67.218.164 (talk) 04:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Recipes?

The Preparation section reads like a cookbook. I would change it to remove the imperative mood, but I think some of the instructions are too specific to be included under general preparation. Thoughts?

Anon685 (talk) 05:09, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

wrong image

burmese yutaio (i.e. e kyar kway) is elongated shaped, two pieces seemingly stuck on each other side. I live in burma, and i literally have not seen a variant of e kyaw kway shaped as shown in image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hteza (talk • contribs) 10:54, 1 March 2019 (UTC)