Talk:Y

Phonetic vs.Glyph

I see these errors on a lot of alphabet and alephbet pages. I is the latin/greek phonetic derivative of Y (Yud) Y & I are the latin/greek morph of the semitic Y (Yud)

V,U,W is the latin/greek phonetic derivative of V (Vav / Waw) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.36.143.156 (talk) 11:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Unix command?

In Unix, y is a command to join the output of two streams.

Is it, really? I have never heard about that (not that I would be some kind of Unix hacker), that program is not on the List of Unix programs, nor could I find anything using Google (but trying to search "y" is quite difficult). Could you point to anything about the program? --Mormegil 21:16, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I may be wrong. I realized that I know it from the JP Software command shells (4DOS, 4OS2, Take Command and the like). I would be surprised if 4DOS would have better support for piping than Unix shells.

I may have misremembered the function of the program. From help

Purpose: Copy standard input to standard output, and then copy the specified file(s) to standard output.

Format: Y file ...

The Y command copies input from standard input (usually the keyboard) to standard output (usually the screen). Once the input ends, the named files are appended to standard output.

[c:\] y memo1 memo2 > memos

[c:\] dir | y dirend > dirall

-- Error 23:19, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, in Unix, you can achieve the same thing with cat /dev/stdin file ..., so I don't think there would be a special tool for it. So I think it probably is not a Unix command; I'm going to change the article to refer to 4DOS instead. Thanks, Mormegil 09:07, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)of atticle refer thands and achieve the same normal wind

Spanish names

Does anyone know how 'y' fits into the convention for names? I think it's a spanish thing. For example if a person's name is 'Manuel Luis' and his last name is 'Quezon', and his mother's maiden name is 'Molina', then the full name would be "Manuel Luis Quezon y Molina". I think. Any insight? -TheCoffee 10:58, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Is the current version enough? --Error 01:52, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Seems good. Thanks. -TheCoffee 22:48, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You are not completely right, In spain women don't change their surnames with the marriage therefore they don't have maiden name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.109.48.202 (talk) 12:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

The German Y

The German name for Y is Üpsilon, not Upsilon.

No, the german name is "Ypsilon". But it's true that the Y in the name is pronounced like an Ü. --188.104.139.25 (talk) 14:38, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorting Out

I tried to sort it out by use in similar languages, but the history at the top is all Greek-Old=English-French and it's a mess (like a child's vacation report: "First we did this, then we did that, and next we did this, and at last we did that"). So it needs work. --Sobolewski 03:35, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

What letter is this?

Ｙ --FlareNUKE 05:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

That is Unicode character U+FF39: FULLWIDTH LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y. See Fullwidth form. Nohat 07:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Use of Y as a consonant

The article covers a lot of information about the use of Y in places where it forms a vowel, but I see no information that describes its use as a consonant (e.g. in "yes"). How has this emerged historically? Why is it now normally classed as a consonant despite historically being a vowel? A link to Semivowel may be necessary. Unfortunately I don't know enough about linguistics to write such a section. JulesH 10:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Four years later this still hasn't been addressed. Y is officially a consonant, at least that's how I was always taught at school. Yet this article says it's a vowel. Research needed I think. Digifiend (talk) 13:59, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

A further 2 years later and still nothing. I brought this up on the wiki entry for typewriter which had more mention of y (currently) being a vowel then occurrences of the letter y itself. I even pointed out that children are taught that y is a consonant at school and that there wasn't even a source for the claim that y was a vowel. Of course there was no shortage of editors willing to cover their eyes/ears going "na na can't here you na na naa" and all my requests for citations and edits were reverted. I even had snotty messages left to tune of "it was a vowel 2000 years ago, so deal with it" (and no actual references btw). The whole thing came across as a research paper that a student was protecting as if his doctorate in "winning arguments despite being wrong" counted on it. If Y is a vowel, or used as a vowel (instead of a replacement for a vowel) as so many Wikipedeans insist, why is there not a single reliable source that plainly states "Y is a vowel". Conversely, every school-child is taught in every school, in every English speaking country that Y is a consonant. Articles like this give Wiki a bad name quite frankly! MrZoolook (talk) 16:54, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

"Y" is a letter and letters are neither vowels nor consonants. Vowels are sounds in spoken language. Letters can denote sounds but they are not sounds. "Y" can stand for vowels, semivowels or consonants, but it is not any one of those. --Surfo (talk) 07:21, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Excuse my bluntness. This very clearly states that "The word consonant is also used to refer to a letter of an alphabet that denotes a consonant sound." This suggests the same is true of A, E, I, O, U and sometimes Y (at least as written vowels). Therefore, the letters themselves are vowels or consonants, or those 2 articles need a re-write to clarify things. MrZoolook (talk) 14:02, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

What exactly do you (or your teachers) mean when you (they) say that this or that letter is a vowel or this or that letter is a consonant? Is there something about the essence of Y to be either a consonant or a vowel? The only intelligible answer that I can find - that makes sense from a linguistic point of view - is that Y is a consonant (letter) when it represents a consonant (sound), and a vowel (letter) when it represents a vowel (sound). 1700-talet (talk) 04:40, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

There actually is information on Y as a consonant. Check out the section Consonant. It's not as well explained as it could be (which I can say since I think I wrote it), but it's there. — Eru·tuon 01:55, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

By Coochie 3

So is y a consonant??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.78.112 (talk) 21:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Old English Y

Has anyone a reference for this article's hypothesis that Old English Y was a ligature of I and V independent from Greek-Latin Y? -- machᵗᵃˡᵏ 15:05, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I think I may've added that way back when (it came up in my winter 2005 LING 381 at UCalgary). It might be that that analysis has no modern proponents, so I've removed its first mention. But there is a mention in the First Grammatical Treatise so it was certainly a current hypothesis then. 4pq1injbok (talk) 18:39, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Turkish Y

Y in turkish is *not* always pronounced "ya" as the article states. Examples: Kaynana, yine, kaydirak. Infralite (talk) 01:06, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. That's the sort of thing you can fix yourself, though. 4pq1injbok (talk) 18:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Y in way / day / yard

It seems that English Y is often related to German/Dutch g, as in way/weg/weg, day/tag/dag, yard/garten/garden. The article doesn't say anything about this. I think it would be good if someone with more knowledge of this matter can add something about this? Math1985 (talk) 21:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Proto-Germanic /g/ ended up as /j/ sometimes in English. That's why in Old English the rune ᚷ and the Latin letter G could stand for /j/. I believe English swapped from spellings like dæg/dag/daȝ to spellings like dai/day roughly around 1250-1350 under French influence, as French at the time had spellings like ay, ey, oy, and uy. Hurlebatte (talk) 16:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Y & IJ

To make English spelling more like Afrikaans/Dutch/German/Scandinavian, try to replace all "Y/y" with all "IJ/ij", keeping rest as is. Note that there in Dutch only "Y/y" and "IJ/ij" alternates. Examples:

• Fujiyama-Fujiijama
• Miyako-Miijako
• Yeti-IJeti
• Yokohama-IJokohama

83.30.139.212 (talk) 13:18, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia:Template messages/Moving which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 12:14, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

"without stress and with stress"

This phrase appears in the section "Usage", subsection "English". I read it as a contradiction, like "not alive and alive" or "not connected and connected". Could somebody who understands the phrase rewrite it for clarity? 213.122.13.158 (talk) 20:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Shady redirect

The article for ⅄ redirects here, but I don't see anything about ⅄ on this article. 124.188.145.86 (talk) 00:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Czech etc

Could someone add the use in Czech and other Slavic languages written with Roman letters; currently only Polish is mentioned from that corner of the world. Colapeninsula (talk) 16:38, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Penultimate?

The letter Y is not "penultimate" it is simply Ultimate. Both a vowel and a consonant, it is the symbol of transformation, of positivity, and of peace. A grave error on the part of these so called "editors". Get your facts straight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yllrauei (talk • contribs) 03:51, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

• Penultimate - "Next to last, second to last; immediately preceding the end of a sequence, list, etc."
• Ultimate - "Final; last in a series."

Pull the log from your eye before pointing out the speck in another's. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:43, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Y (consonant) vs J

Perhaps this article also could deal with "consonant-Y" vs "J" ? Does for instance "j" in "jet" pronounces differently from "y" in "yet" ? And perhaps "Jerusalem" vs "Yemen". Boeing720 (talk) 02:19, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

@Boeing720 75.109.10.162 (talk) 02:35, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

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Dutch name

cf. here: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ypsilon - the Greek name is also used in Dutch. Wathiik (talk)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2019

Change "As a consonant, ⟨y⟩ represents [ʝ] in Spanish." to something like "As a consonant, ⟨y⟩ represents [ʝ] in most Spanish dialects; however, in many others, it represents [ʒ] or even [ʃ]." 88.6.76.171 (talk) 17:32, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 20:20, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

semi-protected edit request: add yttrium to "Other uses" section

I would propose adding one sentence to the "Other uses" section: Y is used as the symbol for the chemical element yttrium.

66.90.198.127 (talk) 14:15, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Not done, this article is about the letter itself, on the top of the article they link to the disambiguation page Y (disambiguation) which includes yttrium. – Þjarkur (talk) 14:51, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply! I understand what you're saying about the disambig page. However, the current "Y" article includes this sentence: In mathematics, y is commonly used as the name for a dependent variable or unknown. If the article mentions other uses in mathematics, why not mention the use in chemistry and physics? cheers, 66.90.198.127 (talk) 15:50, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

That section has been cleaned up, and the article no longer mentions that use. RudolfRed (talk) 20:01, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

As [j] after [i]

As [j] after [i] in Russian first and last names: Dmitriy, Gorkiy. Often i is omitted: Dmitry, Gorky. In this case 'y' is pronounced as [ij]. In passport offices they often write 'i' instead of 'y': Dmitrii Gorkii. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:700C:EB00:D50F:3A1C:3925:70C8 (talk) 22:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

In Hungarian

Y is only used after "g," "l," "n," and "t" in Hungarian, which are considered consonants (exception for loanwords). It's also called "ipszilon," which comes from Greek "upsilon." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonman9001 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

"I griega" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect I griega. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:12, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2020

Change "USually" to "Usually" (typographical error) in the table Pronunciations of Yy, Swedish row 27.99.17.205 (talk) 07:22, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done – Thjarkur (talk) 08:43, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

?

The disambiguation leads to a disambiguation. 2A02:C7F:861D:6A00:A174:247B:8029:B93A (talk) 22:28, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Second reference needs to be updated

The second reference is currently being used as a footnote, rather than as a reference [Quote: "Also spelled wy, plural wyes."] despite being indicated as a citation validating the usage of "wye(s)" within the wiki page. Since I'm unclear as how to handle that (namely, in regards to how to determine which of the many validating sources [eg, Merriam-Webster, Encyclopedia.com, Grammarist, etc] would be best suited for placement into the reference), I'll leave a note here in hopes of catching the eyes of someone more familiar with the matter. Editing advice is welcomed.

Wispered (talk) 18:48, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

𓅱

The infobox lists both 𓅱 and 𓌉 as precursors of Y. But the article's body text and the linked article waw (letter) only have 𓌉 so the appearance of 𓅱 in the infobox is left unexplained. 92.67.227.181 (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Error: the "y" in pyjama is a schwa, not an "ɪ" sound.

Please someone change this; It's just factually incorrect. Kromium3434 (talk) 18:58, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@Kromium3434: According to my Concise Oxford Dictionary of English, [ɪ] is correct. Do you have a wp:reliable source that supports your understanding? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:50, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Hm, well upon further research it seems that there are different interpretations. In the Cambridge and Collin's English dictionary, it is indeed pronounced with an "ɪ" sound, however Macmillan and Google dictionary (deriving from Oxford Languages), seems to cite the pronunciation with a schwa sound. I apologise if these might not seem like reliable sources; I am only citing online dictionaries and I don't currently have physical copies to reference. Kromium3434 (talk) 22:52, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

It may be an accent issue? Pitter/patter distinction. Certainly some people say pih-jamas and others say pah-jamas (and many just say pjamas or even jammies ). Can you suggest an alternative word? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

"Oxygen" could be a good alternative. In English it doesn't seem that there are many "y"s pronounced as "ɪ" that aren't stressed. Kromium3434 (talk) 02:05, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Kromium3434:, yes, good suggestion that I missed when you wrote it nearly two months ago. Done now. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 21:21, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Original phoneme of Y

It is unknown what Y originally sounded like in Latin. Only visual documentation (text, illustrations, sculptures, etc., usually kept in museums), could remain registered and intact at the time. Sound waves couldn't, since audio recorders weren't invented yet. You would require time traveling to the era of Classical Latin to listen to how native speakers pronounced certain words containing Y, and recording it. Since no physical phenomenon give us the possibility to travel back in time, it's impossible to verify the accuracy of the fact that its original sound value was /y/. Y was used for Υυ (ypsilon) when Ancient Greek words were borrowed into Latin. As the letter İ wasn't used instead, it may lead you think it represented an originally distinct phoneme. It could be /y/, but also /ɪ/, /ɨ/, /ʏ/, /ɯ/, and even /i/. It may even be possible that they just introduced Y to indicate that a word had a Greek source, and wasn't written with conventional Ιι (iota), in the same way as the romanization of Φφ (fi), “ph”, for example, which may have been used just to show a word had Ancient Greek origins. There should be written documentation in Latin stating Y sounded like a rounded İ vowel. By the way, some documentation may not be even authentic. They could have been created by somebody in modern era just to deceive historians, or paleontologists, etc. 177.44.147.36 (talk) 13:32, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:59, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Ÿ

There is a discussion at talk:Ÿ#This should not be a disambiguation page that may interest editors of this page. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 08:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2024

I simply want to add a link to the history part of the article by making the text 'Proto-Sinaitic', 'Phoenician', 'Western Greek', and 'Latin' link to their respective pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic_script, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_Greek_alphabets, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_alphabet. Tyjl34 (talk) 17:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Actually they won't be linked. Charliehdb (talk) 08:53, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

"Diphthongs"

In the section discussing Y's pronunciation in English, it says that it sometimes forms a diphthong with E or A, &c. This is talking about writing and letters, so shouldn't this be replaced with 'digraph'? DdeWylvyn (talk) 04:11, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

• Corrected. Burzuchius (talk) 09:07, 9 August 2024 (UTC)