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moved
editI just moved the page to Xar Moron River, based on the name given as "BGN standard" by GNS name search (http://geonames.nga.mil/ggmagaz/geonames4.asp, "Xar Moron"). The results given by google scholar, google books, and google itself are all not overwhelming for either usage, so the tipping point here was to use what looks like an official name (few outside the PRC would turn an 'š' into an 'x') in the language the river's name comes from (Xilamulun sounds very much like a transcription of Širamören).
Actually, the new name is a bit pleonastic, as mörön in Mongolian also means river. Just Xar Moron would be better IMHO.Yaan (talk) 20:23, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
- Just that with BGN (and with WP:MON), the Mongolian š would be rendered as "sh" (there doesn't seem to be a BGN table for the traditional script). If you want to transcribe according to Chinese rules, then you should probably stay with Xilamulun. --Latebird (talk) 00:07, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- My understanding is that the PRC has it's own official transcription system for Mongolian, and that this is what leads to toponymics like Alxa, Ulanqab etc, or names like Uyunqimg or Ulanhu. Of course this can be a major pain in the ass, like in this particular case - I actually had been looking for this "yellow" river on maps *for months*, and I always only saw a "black" one!
- In any case, it seems like the BGN either chose to transcribe this river according to that PRC transcription system for Mongolian, or to just adopt the official PRC name, in any case their "standard" is Xar Moron. It's also not so uncommon when you go to google scholar or google books.
- Btw. Do we actually have a convention for the traditional script? Yaan (talk) 12:06, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
- Yaan's correct. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:40, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
break - Maps of Inner Mongolia in Mongolian
edit- Can you find them in these maps? ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:43, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
- Besides Šira Mören, Sira Mören (ᠰᠢᠷᠠᠮᠥᠷᠡᠨ used in ISBN 978-7-105-07860-8) is also the Mongolian of Heilong River, both means yellow river. A Chinese of Xar Moron is 潢水 (the water-yellow water), as opposed to 黄河, the Yellow River. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:49, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
- Your maps seem to require registration now, but if I am not mistaken it is on this map (caption on the right part of the map, below the seal). Not really sure though, the i's are not very pronounced. Yaan (talk) 21:07, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
- No, it's not. Perhaps one day I'll post it somewhere. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:38, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- I've found it. It's here. You might need Internet Explorer to browse it (tb-lr typesetting & Embedded OpenType). ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 10:36, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
- Plus, you might be interested in these detailed map in Ulanhad, the official publication in 2008 (official news, also the English edition), and a 1987 edition official Mongolian map (cost CNY400). ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 10:42, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
- No, it's not. Perhaps one day I'll post it somewhere. ––虞海 (Yú Hǎi) ✍ 13:38, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- Your maps seem to require registration now, but if I am not mistaken it is on this map (caption on the right part of the map, below the seal). Not really sure though, the i's are not very pronounced. Yaan (talk) 21:07, 30 June 2011 (UTC)