Talk:World of Warcraft/Archive 8

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Locations of Blood Elf and Draenei

They are located neither on Kalidmor or in the Eastern Kingdoms. They are on connected Isles NW of Kalidmor. The article has incorrectly placed one on Kalidmor and the other on the Eastern Kingdom continent. Needs to be fixed.

The Draenei home city and surrounding lands are islands that are part of the continent of Kalimdor. The Blood Elf home city and controlled territory is a part of the Eastern Kingdoms. | ChouchoCelia | ^talk_cont | Saturday, 2007-10-13 21:16 UTC

Known Celebrities Who Play WoW

There should be a section, no matter how small, listing the known players of WoW who celebrities, etc. Dave Chappelle and Corpsegrinder for starters. -- 70.232.104.144 08:11, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, Kate of Kate's Playground (pornstar) is known to have played as an undead character in Blackhand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthroes (talk • contribs)

That's not encyclopedic information. When you write an article about a movie, you don't include all the known celebrities that liked the movie. If it belongs anywhere, it would be under a "Trivia" section for that particular person.--65.199.217.2 18:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it's valuable information, as it illustrates to what enormous extent the popularity of this, a pc game, can go. However, every entry would have to be referenced with a reliable source, best an interview, which would be hard to do. Also, the above mentioned model is not an example of a person worth mentioning. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | 23:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

The majority of authors for this article do not want it expanded. This will be a one page article on WoW. “One page???” Yeah, that’s what I thought too. Anyway, I agree that it would be fun. However, if we did it, we'd have to pay strict attention to WoW guidelines & etiquette. No stalking. But, there are people that will publish they have played, are playing, and actually want attention. Take for example Tom & Bruce of Games for Windows Magazine: Bloodchick (Paladin) and Brooski (Hunter w/pet Rumsfeld butterfly). Here too, they might still be playing, but I'm sure they moved on to other characters, and real lives by now. "...I don't have the time or patience to get a character high enough to see the new ubercontent." Weird thing though...they forgot to mention what server they are on. Apr07 p87. (How I remembered that, don't ask.) :) Imlookingnow 21:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

PvE

"The highest level, most complex dungeons and encounters are designed to take raiding guilds a lot of time (sometimes even months) and many attempts before they succeed." This is wrong. I would think that since Black Temple was introduced, it will take the majority of guilds many months to clear it. At least.

Your comment doesn't make any sense. The quote you provided states that it may take many months to clear the more difficult dungeons/encounters. You state that this quote is fallacious because..."it will take the majority of guilds many months" to clear Black Temple. You're calling the quote incorrect, but then saying the same exact thing as the quote.--65.244.150.2 18:10, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I think what he's trying to say, is that multi-month long instances are not limited to the extreme end game content, but rather incorporate all instances after Black Temple.

Blank24 21:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe that the game can be enjoyed as much in PVP as PVE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.184.250.115 (talk) 17:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

WoW a continuation of Warcraft?

I think it's slightly incorrect to say that World of Warcraft is continuation of the Warcraft series, as the opening paragraph suggests. That could be misleading so people think the other warcraft games are MMOs as well. How should this be changed? "The fourth game set in the Warcraft universe"? --Kraigory 04:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that would be acceptable. --Moblinmaniac 13:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, I feel that the way stated above is correct, however it is just a different type of game. It does continue the Warcraft series, but as an MMORPG instead of an RTS. Penman 1701 23:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that your version "The fourth game set in the Warcraft Universe" is best. It would be better though if we could somehow let people know that all four games are continuations of the same story line though. DurotarLord 13:33, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Propose add Wowdigger.Com

Can we add Wowdigger.com to the list of databases? It's also the only data site that isn't owned by Affinity Media (Thottbot, allakhazam and wowhead are). Asteria

Sounds good. It is as you say gold free but due to it being still a beta version I think we should postpone it. Furthermore, it cannot support many visitors yet because of the low bandwidth. Pvd21 12:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I agree that it sounds good, as it isn't only gold ad free, it is also like the only one that isn't owned by Affinity and their cohorts.. "Beta" is relative, they are just humble, the page has some cool features not even wowhead etc have, and the only thing they lack is users. The latter one would obviously have a small boost with support from the "real" Wiki (Wikipedia). The profiles function for instance is one of those things. I also agree with the user below here, with the goldselling. Still, they are part of the IncGamers networks, who are strongly opposed to RMT, so I kinda guess they won't start now. 81.152.178.94 16:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea as long as they don't start selling gold. User:businessman332211

Before adding any links to this article, ask first "Does this article need it?" You shouldn't even consider if it would be a "good" link, because there are already many "good" links. Too many. Ask if it's essential. I don't think we need any more links to sites with WoW game info unless the info provided is unique and not available in another link. If you want to replace a link with a better site, I'd propose that you start a topic here explaining why your proposed site is better than an existing one so that other editors can agree or disagree. But please don't add another link just because it's "good". -- Atamasama 01:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

A weird question

is it true that if you say chuck norries on WoW that you get banned temporialy ? I just heard that and wondered if it was true

• Who knows? Check out the WoW forums, there's probably an answer on there :) Summoner Marc 02:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok thanks I will do that

I can say for a fact, that they will give you warnings and eventually ban you if you post too many "chuck norries". The hierarchy goes 3 warnings, 3 3 hour bans, 2 3 day bans, and then an account suspension apparently permanantly.

No you 'nubs' if you have spent more than 5 minutes in barrens chat you will know that not only is the mention of Chuck Norris not grounds for suspension on WOW but is actually very common. I have even said Chuck Norris and nothing...

Actualy as long as its in General, speeking of Chuck Norris will not get you ban..If so everyone in Barrens would be banned.

Saing "Chuck Norris" will not get you banned, but it may make people mad at you for awhile.RHSB Scipio 03:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

It will probably get you on one or more ignore lists. -Atamasama 22:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

It will not get you banned, and most people don't care - User:businessman332211

Putting back my addition to controversy and criticism

It isnt an opinion, I am stating facts as to how the GM service operates and the fractions they warn, suspend, and ban for. I am sorry if I offended any fanboy's point of view but the entire addition is factual and from a NPOV. Species2112 01:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Its original research. Get a reliable source indicating that this happens. Otherwise its WP:OR and cant be in the article. Dman727 02:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I could cite the same source as the transgendered/gay issue right above it has and it would be sufficient. and no its not original research or unverified claims if it happened before. Species2112 02:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

You're referring to [1]? Can't see anything in there about many players finding the verbal harassment policies oppressive and intrusive. And it's certainly not a source for GM actions rarely being repealed, since it discusses a sole incident which ended in Blizzard apologizing to the player in question. --Stormie 04:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place to bitch about your 'unfair ban'. 76.189.226.198 18:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm curious as to why World of Warcraft is the only MMO to have a section on "Controversy and Criticism," to the extent that there is an entirely separate article for criticism. This seems to indicate a somewhat anti-WoW bias, as no other MMO has it. Everquest's "controversy" section is 90% generic MMO criticisms/concerns, while none of the known criticisms of EQ (such as SoE's itchy ban-finger). --Brendan 16:24, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Want to add to Professions

I wanted to add some info under the Professions area, but couldn't. I just created a user, before I just edited anonymously. If anyone else wanted to, it was going to be a few minor things, such as the specialisations of other engineering (the others have theirs listed) and a number link to where you can find out more. DarkReviver 10:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I added information about engineering. Is that what you were looking for?

Theres also incorrect information under professions...

it is 2 Standard professions a player can learn, <Such as tailoring and enchanting> but a player can ALSO learn ALL THREE secondary professions, which are First Aid, Cooking and Fishing, for a total of 5 professions per player

The Burning Crusade introduced Jewelcrafting. This information needs to be added

Good. Be bold and add it yourself if you can manage. However I think it should be just mentioned here, in this article, or briefly introduced but not to be expanded any further. Full details about it can be put in BC article. By the way, sign your posts by typing ~~~~. Pvd21 15:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Larger MMORPGs in China should be considered

None of the sources (MMOGchart.com, etc) mention WoW in relation to Chinese language-only MMORPGs, some of which are quite massive. Both Fantasy Westward Journey and Zhengtu have more peak concurrent players than WoW in China.[2] From what I can gather Fantasy Westward Journey already reached 25 million users in 2005 which was two years ago, and its Chinese Wikipedia page is giving a much larger figure now but it's unsourced. In any case, we should avoid claiming that "WoW is the most popular MMORPG in the world" until more sources compare all these games together. Shawnc 22:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

1. Wikipedia cares first, and foremost about WP:Attributability. We have a references that show it as the largest. If some wikipedian does some original research, it is not valid for inclusion in wikipedia,
2. Even without Original Research, we don't have good sources for the number of subscribers.
3. We do have a good resource for number of concurrent users in China, but because both of those games are constrained to China, and WoW is worldwide, it can be presumed that WoW is actually larger than them, even by max concurrent users, because less than 1/2 of the WoW subscribers are in China.
4. Currently the article reads "subscription-based" as a class for inclusion. Are either of those other two games "subscription based"?

So, while I'm not dismissing your claim, you do have a lot of barriers to overcome. Feel free to keep working on it if you feel the claim is valid. With the mounting "evidence" against it, it doesn't really seem worth my time to do additional research (besides what I did in preparing this post). McKay 14:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

• I disagree with Shawnc completely. 1st of all, this "From what I can gather Fantasy Westward Journey already reached 25 million users in 2005", I don't see any proof of this. Secondly, the link that you provided only proved how many players are on at a time, not total subscribers. On the contrary, I believe the WoW is the most popular MMORPS in the world should stay because all reliabile sources show that it is, and until you can disprove that statement, it stays. --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 15:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

No, the citation for registered users was already provided in the Xinhua link in the Fantasy Westward Journey article (this one): "網易自主研發的《夢幻西遊Ｏｎｌｉｎｅ》，自２００４年１月上市以來，即受到年輕人的熱捧。據統計，目前《夢幻西遊Ｏｎｌｉｎｅ》的註冊人數已超過２５００萬." Xinhua is the official news agency of China. There is currently a systemic bias in English-language sources due to the language barrier.

FYI, registered users does not mean much in terms of revenue for MMORPGs in China, because of the payment is calculated on time played, not by the month. Peak concurrent users is more relevant for the Chinese market. 25 million users is hardly unbelievable because many of those people can be casual users who signed up for an account, play for an hour or two and quit. Shawnc 19:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Here's a reliable citation to support the fact that having 25 million registered users is not a lot for China nowadays: NetEase's less popular game, Westward Journey Online II, had over 50 million registered accounts by May 2005. This number came straight from the publisher: "By the May 2005, we have over 56 million registered accounts and over 467,269 peak concurrent users in the month, ranking "Westward Journey Online II" as one of the top 3 MMORPG games in China."[3] Shawnc 19:41, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

In case anyone is concerned about the reliability of the publisher, NetEase, it is a publicly traded company (traded on the Nasdaq) with a market cap of over $2 billion. Shawnc 19:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The reliability, notability of the publisher, game, or news source are not in question. Precisely what the article actually says is in question. This shouldn't be difficult, but it still needs to be done.

Then the comparison to WoW is important. Registered Users might compare to Number of Copies sold?

WP:OR is even more important. Just because "24 million copies of WoW have been sold to date" and "25 million users have registered for Fantasy Westward Journey" have both been printed. We can't say "FWJ is bigger in number of accounts created" because that would require synthesis of the two sources of information, and would hence be "Original Research". So we couldn't put it on wikipedia McKay 20:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

A problem of comparison is in the definition of "subscribers" vs "accounts", since players in China are not monthly subscribers; this is the case for both WoW and other games with a pay-for-playing-time model. I assume that WoW may have a larger number of world-wide concurrent users than other games (by the ratio of China/World-wide players as you pointed out), but it would be original research to claim this without a citation that gives that number directly.

In any case, the word "most popular" is rather imprecise and misleading, because there exists numerous ways to measure popularity: number of registered/paying accounts, number of monthly subscribers (people who pay regularly by the month), world-wide peak concurrent users, world-wide average concurrent users.

One idea is to write, instead, that WoW has the largest number of monthly subscribers. This would make comparisons to China unnecessary at this point because none of the popular games in China are based on a monthly subscription. Wouldn't that be more precise? Shawnc 20:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The GigaOM citation currently used also emphasized this difference: "Important qualification, though: only 4 million are based in the West and monthly subscribers, while its 4 million Chinese players only pay roughly 4 cents an hour to play it in Internet cafes." For clarity, this should be pointed out in this article as well (that "not all players are monthly subscribers"). MMOChart's data on subscribers mixes the two up as well.

The following article talks about Zhengtu Online having more concurrent users than World Of Warcraft in China: [4]. Shawnc 22:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

---

Considering the above, I propose that the intro be edited as follows (changes in bold):

Although its initial release was hampered by server stability and performance issues, the game became a financial success and the world's largest MMORPG in terms of monthly subscribers.

On March 7, 2007, Blizzard announced that the user base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 8.5 million players worldwide.

There are more than 2 million players in North America, 1.5 million players in Europe, and 3.5 million players in China as of January, 2007

Using the monthly subscriber metric makes its popularity less controversial, and using the word "user" instead of "subscriber" is less misleading since not all regions have a subscription system. Shawnc 02:41, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

character monitoring websites?

Can you list all of the websites that monitor characters, guilds, do rankings etc? There used to be a really good website that I found by google search but i no longer can find it. I can't remember what it was called but it is not listed in the article. Any ideas? Thanks. I like to monitor my friends progress every once in a while since I've quit the game. Tkjazzer 03:00, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a place to list non-notable websites. Having said that, Blizzard's Armory does a decent job at it. (I'm also a fan of [5] but it's got some issues currently) McKay 17:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

got any others? that website did not work.

Hmm, Armory was down yesterday, it appears to be up. Thieves' Tavern doesn't appear to ever have been down. McKay 15:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Add to category: Electronic sports games

I believe that the World of Warcraft article should be added to the category Electronic sports games as it being played competitively in the World Series of Video Games. I wanted to make sure that others are in agreement because last time I added it to that category it was removed. --Credema 23:26, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

yes it should be since Bliz is making a push in that arena.harlock_jds 23:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added the page to the category. --Credema 21:18, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

• I have removed the category from the page. WoW is not a sports game. --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 18:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

but it is being used as an electronic sport (like starcraft and counterstrike) so the category should be included.harlock_jds 18:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

• I have reverted that change. see Electronic sports. McKay 18:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

• Wait, HOW do you can play a MMORPG like WoW in a tournament? Whoever completes the first newbie quest wins? You play with your own 60th or 70th-level character in a duel? A battleground? NO WAI! 200.255.9.38 18:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

  I think what they do is provide generic characters (all geared out in T5 or something) and have the teams compete. I guess technically, the ladder system in-game might be enough to qualify for the appelation, but there will be competitions, like at BlizzCon. Blizzard has had soloing competitions in the past (like first to 50 or how many 20s can you get in a week...) too. McKay 18:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

3v3 arena fights with premade characters equitable with a list of equipment.harlock_jds 19:21, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I concur that it does belong in that category, which is defined as Electronic sports are computer and video games which are played in competition. IMO the category needs to be renamed. Maralia 03:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I second the "category needs to be renamed" angle -- "electronic sports" would be clearer than "electronic sports games", but neither of them immediately mean (to me) what that category's description says. (I'm the guy who removed the category as vandalism -- "electronic sports games" to me means "electronic games that simulate sports". Sorry about that.) Maybe "competitive electronic games"? I don't love that category name, but it's a little closer. I think any name with "sports" in it is going to be confusing. CSWarren 10:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it's a confusing title for the category. Don't really know what's more appropriate, though. "Cybersports" is probably the term I've most heard, although the Electronic sports article calls that a "less popular term". --Stormie 11:51, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Total Profit

I would like to know, and I think it'd be interesting to know, how much money, the WoW enterprise makes for Blizzard a month. 8 million users averaged to.. what?

(Total users x monthly fee) + monthly merchandise sales + monthly client and expansion sales. The merchandise sales and client/expansion sales might be difficult to find but just the total users times the monthly fee is around 120 million dollars per month.

Just also remember you can pre-pay for more than 1 month in advance, which lowers the overall "monthly" cost bye a few bucks --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 13:20, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Also note that the pay structure in the far east is different than it is here. McKay 16:50, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, that calculates the total revenue. You'd need to have some idea of their expenses to talk about profit, though. If you're really interested, go to Vivendi's investors & shareholders web page at www.vivendi.com/ir/en/home/ and have a poke around their annual reports, it might say something about profits by division. --Stormie 12:45, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that *doesn't* calculate total revenue. Because the far-easterners don't generate a monthly fee. They have a different pay structure, so you can't say (total users X monthly fee). McKay 15:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, OK, it calculates total revenue incorrectly. It doesn't calculate total profit at all. :-) Like I said, check Vivendi's public reports. --Stormie 01:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Vivendi's public reports don't mention how much they're getting from WoW subscriptions :( McKay 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Aug 31 07' they released 07's half year earnings report, Vivendi Games (which includes WoW) earned €119 mill and the total Vivendi revenue was €10,223 mill. Kalyn123 06:18, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationales

I am proud to announce that all images on this article now have fair-use rationales. -- R'son-W _{(speak to me/breathe)} 23:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, glad to hear that. Pvd21 11:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Controversy and Criticism: LGBT issues

The paragraph on transgender guilds \ Lambda legal is too vague. It simply says that WoW attracted attention because of an incident involving the transgender guilds. What that incident was and what constituted the attention is left out. But I'm not sure how to summary the content on the Controversy and Criticism sub-page: it's already pretty brief as it is. Maybe we should just copy\paste what's there onto this page? Jordansc 16:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

What actually happened, is there was a character who ran a Gay Friendly guild, and one of the Blizzard GM's banned the character. The person complained to Blizzard, and they eventually unbanned the person and apologized. edit - ok they didn't ban her outright, but warned her that she could be banned for talking in open chat trying to recruit GLBT individuals [6] --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 16:11, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Criticism

The fact that the game is so good people cannot stop playing it is not a criticism.

It gives people the chance to say "they play too much, they are addicted". What about the people who come home, sit on the couch, and watch a few hours of TV, then eat dinner and go to bed. Do you think they call those people addicted to TV? You never see a news report on that stuff. Also, please sign your posts with 4 tilde's ~~~~ --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 17:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Players online at a given time?

Is there info? e.g. Counter strike has http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats --Leladax 19:20, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Clean-up

• 1. The controversies page has almost the exact same text for Game addiction as the main article
• 2. It says a few times how many people play this game, making it seem like some addict fan is bragging
• 3. There are random paragraphs in the article that should be under larger categories
• 4. Grammar issues such as when it says gameplay was slowed down by server stability
• 5. The discussion page is way too long

I truthfully don't play this game but i can see now that this should not be listed under the good wiki article thingie and it shouldn't be praised as highly as it should be (the article)

further expansion packs

from the TBC article: World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade is the first expansion pack for the popular MMORPG World of Warcraft.
The url to the Gamespot dot com TBC page is this: ht tp://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/worldofwarcraftexp1/index.html

Are there any (significant) news about future expansion packs? Name or content? Should we start a new page? --h_a 14:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

No there have been no official announcements regarding future expansion packs yet, so I would not recommend starting a new page. Blizzard's "Blizzcon" convention is on August 3-4, so there may very well be announcements made there. --Stormie 03:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Considering that the expansion was just released in January (6 months ago), and it took 2 years for the first expansion pack, I highly doubt blizzard is going to pump out another expansion pack yet. There is, however, going to be a new 10-man instance added, in game voice, guild banks, and more in one of the patches in the near future. I don't expect expansion packs to be released until at least a year apart from each other, if not longer. --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 19:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

There was a comment made by some Blizzard high-up in an interview that ideally, they would like to release expansion packs roughly a year apart. Some people have seized on that as a sign that a second expansion might be coming early next year - the lack of any announcements (given what was already announced about The Burning Crusade this time last year) makes this seem unlikely, though. --Stormie 00:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Burning Crusade added little game material to the game when compared with the basic WoW. You need less gameplay time to see all and want more, comparing with the basic.

I see a pattern in other MMORPGs: the second expansion takes less time to be released than the first. (The third one is another case...) See Guild Wars, Everquest I e II, etc.

But, Blizzard is not famous for his haste in releasing the games... Wildie 13:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC) (First signed edit \o/ )

Unlike Microsoft, Blizzard would rather delay a release to ensure that it's as complete as humanly possible, which at least in my opinion, is a very good trait to have. I would much rather wait a little longer for a superior product than to get a crappy one right away. --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 13:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

At last blizzcon, they said that they plan to release one expansion a year. Whether they mean fiscal year calendar year or what, we don't know. They've still got until the end of 2008 to keep in line with that. Having said that wikipedia is not a crystal ball. We can state that they've said that, but we can't create an article about the expansion, because it's probably not notbale yet. McKay 16:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King - [7] --h_a 23:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyone have any reliable information on what tech the servers run on?

Windows, OS/X, UNIX, LINUX, SOLARIS? AMD, Intel, SPARC?

Combinations of the above?

May i ask why? Grimreape513 15:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Edited Controversy and Criticism

Removed the paragraph about the alleged treatment of the transgender player. It is not Encyclopedic, and has no bearing on what WoW is. Further it is quite a well known fact that the entire fiasco was more forum Trolling, than factual events. After the Fifteen minuets of fame the "player" was never heard from again.

Martinj63 21:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Propose add lootables.com

Would it be possible to add lootables.com to the list of useful sites. It's an item database site that has some cool features, such as item comparison, advanced searching, and links to all the other major WoW database sites for each item, and also some fairly detailed profession guides. It is also gold ad free, and independant from the Zam network.

Any moderator agree with this? Lorddeimos 23:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I may or may not a moderator, but I think i can agree with him. Grimreape513 15:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Before adding any links to this article, ask first "Does this article need it?" You shouldn't even consider if it would be a "good" link, because there are already many "good" links. Too many. Ask if it's essential. I don't think we need any more links to sites with WoW game info unless the info provided is unique and not available in another link. If you want to replace a link with a better site, I'd propose that you start a topic here explaining why your proposed site is better than an existing one so that other editors can agree or disagree. But please don't add another link just because it's "good". -- Atamasama 01:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

burning crusade

is burning crusade a new game or just an expansion pack63.166.254.137 18:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The answer to your question, is that it's an expansion pack. The article clearly states that in the first paragraph. Also, Wikipedia is not a forum. --sumnjim ^{talk with me·changes} 20:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

World Series of Video Games

{{editprotected}}

Here's a sentence about the World Series of Video Games recent appearance on CBS to be put at the end of the introduction, if necessary:

"On July 29, 2007 CBS aired an hour special on the Louisville World Series of Video Games competition in which World of Warcraft was a featured game." Edi50 21:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I've disabled the editprotected request. This article is only semiprotected, so nearly any editor can add the content, if appropriate. Cheers. --MZMcBride 21:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Specification

Hey why did someone undo the specification section? The word specification definitely does not appear without it. Mathiastck 21:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The reason was given in the edit summary: The minimum system requirements are already stated in the Infobox. tomst | talk 08:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wrath of the Lich King

Apparently, there are Wrath of the Lich King posters all over Blizzcon and Blizzard employees are wearing t-shirts with the logo on the back. Now can we put the new expansion into the article? Ygoloxelfer 16:56, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Sources, dude, we need sources ;^)

(Wrath of the Lich King? I think I had a nerdgasm) wildie·wilđ di¢e.wilł die 17:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

WoW Insider and MMO Champion, among others, have images from Blizzcon that clearly show the name. Ygoloxelfer 17:35, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

or we can wait a few hours for actual articles to come out about this so we can add more than just a nameharlock_jds 17:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

• http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/ - I dunno if you can use it as a source, can you? I think I had a tiny orgasm when I watched the video... --Marc ^Talk 20:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

course it's usable as a source... information doesn't get more citable than coming directly from the developer.harlock_jds 20:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Now is that actually the case? I used a developer website for a different MMO and kept getting slapped with the "Unsourced" template. Can anyone confirm it's okay? --Marc ^Talk 03:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

It's perfectly acceptable to cite the developer's announcement when what you're stating is that, uh, the developer announced a new product in development. Now, if Blizzard was to announce that their servers are never down, or that their customer service is the best on the planet...you could still cite them as SAYING it, but obviously the article language would have to maintain npov, so you couldn't, well, assert their assertion. It's all about the context. Maralia 03:19, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

There's also the press release at http://www.blizzard.com/press/070803-2.shtml to cite.The one smiley to rule them all 03:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed the citation needed tag to the sentence that Northerend is going to be the next expansion site and cited it to Blizzard's announcement. RBLakes 07:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Cities

It can be confirmed here http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=305842072&sid=1#16 that Dalaran, a city in the southern Alterac Mountains, will magically move to Northrend and become the new city there, like Shattrath. Add to the city list?

24.124.49.158 05:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Meh, some of you might not take this on a forum, though it is a reliable source. Try here instead.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/worldofwarcraftwrathofthelichking/news.html?sid=6176111&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;3

24.124.49.158 05:21, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Citation for Wrath of the Lich King stuff

All info about WotLK can be found at this site:

www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/

Pricing

I heard that you can pay like $200 so that you only have to pay once and not have to pay moonthly is this true?

No, that is not true. --Stormie 00:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That only works for Cable TV. - Atamasama 21:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Northrend stuff in main article

Stormie has the right idea. Let's not add stuff to the article that doesn't actually exist live in the game yet (even if you saw it at Blizzcon). During beta and up until release, anything can (and some stuff will) change, so adding the info now would be WP:CRYSTAL at best. Bold move on the revert, and smart at that. spazure (contribs) 05:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Yep we have an article World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King which is an excellent place to add all the (sourced!) details about Northrend and the expansion which Blizzard might reveal over the coming months. --Stormie 07:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Blood elves and the continents

First: Blood Elves do not start on the Bloodmyst Island. Bloodmyst Island is the 10-20 zone for Dreanei. Blood Elves start on the continent of Lordaeron, at Eversong Woods. Second: There are three continents inthe world, not two continents and a couple of island. There is Lordaeron, Khaz Modan or Azeroth (which, together, is called Eastern Kingdoms) and Kalimdor. Bloodmyst and Azuremyst Isles are considered a part of Kalimdor. Third: Who wrote that the most commonly known pop reference is the Belf dance? This is not true. Draenei Tunak dance was also very popular, and so was Nelf Michael Jackson dance. There are a lot of popular culture references in WoW, you can't just pick one and name it the most common one. 88.233.64.245 19:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Controversy about WoW stealing from Tolkien!?

I can't edit, but it seems like a stupid thing to say. It's the last line in the Controversy part of the article, about how WoW stole from Tolkien's work. What fantasy fiction DOESN'T? It seems like a pointless line and if whoever can edit can remove it, it'd be good for the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.225.107.128 (talk) 04:53, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

I removed it. It's a bogus claim, because like you said most fantasy fiction is inspired by Tolkien's work. If someone can post it with a reliable source that'd be one thing, but I'd be shocked if anyone credible made such a crazy claim. -- Atamasama 17:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

If World of Warcraft is stealing from tolkien, they wouldnt be the first people too. Grimreape513 15:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

A lot of people do take from Tolkien's work, however it may not be the whole stealing aspect that most people think of. Blizzard has, in many various ways, paid homage to many different pop-culture icons, including Pink Floyd, Monty Python, and Jimmy Hoffa. So, I wouldn't be surprised if something of Tolkien's work was taken and used as a tribute. ^LoTuStha_juggla 21:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

As Tolkien appropiated most of his ideas from the Norse Eddas (and other mythological sources)its not as if modern fantasy steals from him wholesale.And appart from WOW using the race he 'created', namely orks,WOW doesnt seem to overuse tolkien material.there are no halflings for example.However if someone wanted to show direct tolkien influence he DID set orks as greenskinned tall humanoid creatures distinct from other races and warcraft does use this (though in WOW Orks are Not descended from Elves) 195.7.34.195 10:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

wrong info

theres a part at the top of the first part of the artical that says that WoW broke new records with 9 million users. This is wrong. War craft 3 has 11 million. it should be removed since it's false. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.3.19.129 (talk) 05:32, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

The text says: "On 24 July 2007, Blizzard announced that the user base for World of Warcraft had reached a new milestone, with 9 million players worldwide."

What I understand is: WoW reached the round number of 9 million players in July 2007.

It is equivalent to the (very near) milestone of 2 million Wikipedia articles. This is not a record in the sense you think because there is no comparation with similar games, it's a game's statistic that reached a particular high number. wildie · wilđ di¢e · wilł die 14:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, a milestone is not a record. It merely means another round number has been passed. --Stormie 00:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

RP not enforced on RP servers

I removed the statement that RP is rarely enforced on RP servers. This is entirely an opinionated statement and not fact. Blizzard has addressed this in the forums (which I can't reference right now because I can't reach the WoW forums on this PC). One of the problems with this statement is that what is and isn't RP is a matter of perspective, some people RP in their speech, some people RP in the actions their characters take. Another problem is that "rarity" is also a matter of perspective, what is justified enforcement to one person is oppression to another. The last problem is that when rules are enforced on a server, you don't see it unless you're the violator. Blizzard doesn't release information about how or even if they have responded to a rules violation report, they simply thank you for giving them information. Someone's opinion about the RP servers are shouldn't be included as fact, especially uncited. -- Atamasama 18:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add that I've played on RP servers for well over a year now, and actually agree with the opinion that RP is rarely enforced. However, whether I agree or not it is still an opinion and doesn't belong in an encyclopedia entry. An attempt to do a search for citations that would back up the assertion that "many players feel RP is not enforced" doesn't come up with very good results (from my own efforts at least). In the future if someone else is more successful in finding sources stating this (maybe a published game review?) and could contrast it with Blizzard's reaction to that claim, I would support that. -- Atamasama 20:15, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

In-game chat

Is it too early to mention the new in-game chat feature that will be included in WoW? Or perhaps we should wait for it to actually be implemented? -Cam^T|C 01:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I wouldn't bother mentioning it until they finally get it working and release patch 2.2 with it. --Stormie 23:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I added a section for it now, please everyone feel free to modify it in an appropriate way. =) -Cam^T|C 01:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I moved it from the previous location heading of "Characters" to "Version History" Yngvarr (t) (c) 12:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

World Events Discussion

The Darkmoon Faire section contains much adcruft and needs to be cleaned up. 207.69.137.43 00:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking of removing the sub-sections for each individual event and merging them in to one paragraph about events. Any comments? --Hdt83 ^Chat 01:47, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your recent change, Dman727 re-added a section about "Corrupted Blood", claiming in his edit summary that it was a noteable enough event that it should be called out in detail. He also noted to "see talk". However, I can't find where he is talking about it on this page. In the section itself, the event is noted to have been removed from the outside world and therefore cannot even be considered a world event anymore. Given these facts, I have reverted his re-addition of this section.Game Collector 12:23, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The occaison received wide coverage in newspapers and other media, it is notable enough for a section by all means. Re-added. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | 14:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, I did write a brief paragraph in the talk section about it, but I don't see it here either. Might have been an edit conflict and I didnt notice. Anyway, that section belongs. Its notable outside the game world for its real world implications about the spread of disease and how real populations react. As for the "world" and "event" terminology, I don't have a problem with using a different word than "event". I suppose it is an event but if that is a big concern, theres plenty of replacements. In term of "World", well that is referenced and true. The issue was caused by players bringing the disease out of Zul Gurub and into the rest of the world. The real world analogy would be a miscreant bringing a deadly virus out of the lab and into a major city and thats has some folks very interested in (outside the game world). Dman727 18:58, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

It would be notable if it still existed, but I don't see how a fixed bug adds any encyclopedic value to this article. Maybe it would add encyclopedic value to Outbreak, Epidemic or Pandemic. I am satisfied with the re-wording and re-locating of it, however, and will not continue to remove it at this point.Game Collector 19:30, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The plague is a debuff received from a boss inside of an instance in the game. The only reason it effected players outside of the instance was due to a bug, which was speedily rectified. I won't disagree that it may deserve to be mentioned in the article somewhere, but at the very least I don't think it should be listed under the "World" section, since it was never an actual world event (and the reference provided does not prove that it was). See this link for a list of in-game events (a.k.a. "World Events"). It was a bug in the game that sparked the coverage. If we were to list all of the bugs in the game that received media coverage the article might become bloated with patch notes. And so, I am going to revert this one more time, and will leave the responsibility up to you to re-word the statement (to remove it's claims of being a world event without citation to prove it) and then decide where to put this statement in the article. I just wanted to let you know here first why my reversion wasn't "useless", as you claimed it was in your edit summary. I should also like to say that my original edit summary should have read "Corrupted blood is not a world event.". Including the word "anymore" in that summary was an error on my part.Game Collector 15:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of everything related to the whole story, i was in it. While you are correct it is not an organized world event, that is no reason to delete material, which indeed made your edit useless, eventhough it might not have been the most civil way of saying so. You'd rather fix it (for example by moving it or changing the headline) than to remove valuable content. Please read up on policy. I'll try to fix this stuff now. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | 18:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I am happy with the end result. However, your continued use of the description "useless" to describe my edits is uncivil. I had my reasons for deleting the material, and explained them well enough here on the talk page. Considering that the section was originally being played off as a "world event", without any citations to prove it, it was perfectly legitimate for me to delete the content. Show me which policy I should be reading up on, which indicates that I was the one to have to find these citations and fix up the section? It's up to the editors who want to keep the material in the article to do that. In my opinion, the section still doesn't add any encyclopedic value to the article, since it references something that doesn't exist in the game anymore. Let's leave it at that, and that you should read up on WP:CIVIL.Game Collector 19:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Just put World Events and then just list every event in short, bulleted, explanations. If they want the history of it, just post a link to the WoW website. Grimreape513 14:59, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Small edit

I am not an "established" registered user, so i can't make the change. Under the PvP headline, i'd like to make one of the comments a little more specific. It says ANY player of WoW can be detcted using The Armory, but it will not show characters under Lv. 10. This is a minor detail, but but i feel it should be added. ty, Skarlath12 21:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)J.Russell 10/8/07

The great thing about Wikipedia is that ANYONE can edit it. Make your change if you see it as fit. Be bold! Go for it. However others are able to change it again if it's unneeded etc :) --Marc ^Talk 22:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the article is semi-protected, which means non-registered and newly registered editors can't edit it. I think the cooldown for new accounts is five days, so you should be able to edit it shortly. Yngvarr (t) (c) 22:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, god, sorry, I forgot about that. Apologies! --Marc ^Talk 00:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

No worries. I just did a minor edit, adding Skar's suggestion. When it's unlocked to him, he (or, as you say, anyone else) can edit it to satisfaction. Yngvarr (t) (c) 00:21, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Popular culture references?

The last paragraph in the intro section says that WoW's popularity has led to pop culture references. One of the cited examples is bona fide pop culture (the South Park episode), the second (the inclusion of WoW at the World Series of Video Games) is questionable, and depends on the definition of "popular," but the third, a commercial advertising the game and made by Blizzard (which incidentally incorporates a reference to a cult comedy film) doesn't really seem to support the point that the game's popularity has led to it being mentioned by mainstream cultural outlets. Unless someone can make an argument for why a television spot promoting the game should be considered a popular culture reference to the game, I think it would be appropriate to remove that example from the introduction. SS451 06:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The Office Space commercial is just a sign that Blizzard had enough money to buy television advertising. If Peter was really playing WoW in the actual movie that would be a different story (and amazing since WoW didn't exist when Office Space was made). -- Atamasama 15:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I guess the new Toyota/WoW commerical would classify as a real pop culture reference to WoW. Outside of the WoW South Park episode, I don't know of any other true pop culture references to WoW, though. RobertM525 11:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

vandalism

would be nice if i could erase a big vandalism on this page, but ironically it's protected 69.55.231.100 14:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

what?

There's still vandalism on this page. I hope that this won't turn into a revert war —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.225.31 (talk) 00:13, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

It seems to have been removed but if you do see any, please point them out. Thanks! --Hdt83 ^Chat 05:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Ironically enough, there seems to be vandalism on this talk page also when my reply to the last request for a removal of vandalism was removed for no reason. -- Atamasama 18:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Character classes

First, each character class had its own page. Then, they were all merged to become one article. Now, the "Character classes in World of Warcraft" article is being deleted, so I felt it was necessary to expand the description of them here. While I intended these descriptions to be as concise as possible (1-2 sentences each), I'm sure they will soon balloon into huge paragraphs soon enough. Hopefully, this can be avoided to keep this already large article somewhat manageable and relevant to non-WoW players (as we WoW players can be serviced much better over at WoWWiki). Sadly, I expect to see people edit in the "overpoweredness" of Warlock fears, the usefulness of mage polymorphing, the laughableness of Retribution paladin DPS, and other such "cruft" (as it appears to be called) soon enough. But at least I tried... RobertM525 11:13, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Your efforts are appreciated and I think very necessary. I too am afraid that cruft will creep in and this article will be pushed even farther from a FA status, but we should still try. Oh, and warlock fear is EZmode. -- Atamasama 01:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Devine Intervention (spell) doesn't deserve its own page. There are hundreds of spells in the game, but why is this the only one that has a page? Fangz the Wolf 14:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't need to be merged. It doesn't belong in Wikipedia at all. A single spell isn't notable enough to even be worth mentioning in the main WoW article, let alone have its own page. It's just game guide stuff. That page should be deleted. Good catch. -- Atamasama 17:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, it needs deleting not merging. WoWWiki is over here. --Stormie 00:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge the guild page

Why is there a World of Warcraft guild page to begin with? Fangz the Wolf 16:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Good question. There's nothing on that page that doesn't apply to just about every guild in every MMORPG. Just look at Clan (computer gaming). Another good deletion candidate. I wouldn't even merge it, nothing there is unique to WoW. -- Atamasama 18:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

It is now at afd: [8] --Hdt83 ^Chat 22:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I also "completely" agree. There is not enough information for that one subject to warrant it's on page. I think you made the right decision on this one. businessman332211 03:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)