Talk:Women's World Championship

This entire article appears to be a work of fiction, to push contemporary post 2010s propaganda

JDC808 This article reveals a bunch of sourceless entries filled with "when" tags. The article on Josephine Blatt does not even use a source to say when if ever she won a wrestling womens championship. WP:PW is more messed up than I thought, take that to ANI and see more sanctions for more wp:or and wp:pov violations. Most of the women listed weren't even wrestlers, rather strong women (i.e. female body builders with no fighting connections). No old news articles relating to them, most of the references seems to be contemporary post 2010 feminist fictions. The entries are rightfully listed with when tags. A source should be as valid as https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1905/05/05/100485496.pdf (the 1905 fiirst ever world championship match appeared in the new york times the same year it was won!). This is clear propaganda push, and am sure would be penalized if brought to ANI but I don't care whatsoever as it has no relevance. The NWA World Women's Championship may be relevant but the Women's World Championship clearly has 0 validity and should be an article considered for deletion. Just shows how much more messed up WP:PW is if it is full of contents with no wp:rs like this. Dilbaggg (talk) 13:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

No valid source anywhere in the world recognizes this, there is no news source of it prior to 2010 anywhere, this fails to display a single compliance with wp:rs. It is a well established fact that the regardless of men's/women's, the 1905 title was the first world title. This article hasn't even existed before 2011, and nowhere else is this title acknowledged other than the recently published weak source that is http://www.wrestling-titles.com/world/world-wm.html. Dilbaggg (talk) 13:19, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• I have a hard time assuming good faith on this comment considering the articles for Blatt, Livingston, Burke, Byers all outline that they were professional wrestlers. I do have a hard time seeing how this would get WP:PW sanctioned, but by all means do try to use ANI as a hammer to get whatever misguided "this is feminist fiction" rant you are on to make a difference. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:19, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

MPJ-DK Totally misguided comment, the article on Blatt has 0 source that she was a professional wrestler, no source at all that she won a professional wrestling title, and check revision history, before 2012 it was never stated in her article she was a wrestler. Haven't checked the others but will and am sure they too have 0 source. All claims of them winning this title are modern day, prior to 2010 there is no documentation ever of any such thing. Unlike this 1905 title had a super valid source, it was featured on the then edition of New York Times in 1905. Nothing in any article related to this even fits the WP:PW/RS which you seem to completely disregard regarding this concept. It is established fact as per everything that fits WP:RS that 1905 title was the first world title. Everything justifies its nomination for deletion. Dilbaggg (talk) 15:09, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

So to be clear, your main problem is the inclusion of Blatt? As for virtually unsourced, hardly an ANI matter where "All of professional wrestling will be sanctioned", so maybe some sense of proportion is in order? Attitude gets in the way of an actual discussion of the article which (in my opinion) in general has problems, it's a mish-mash of information trying to be forced into one linear title, which the source does not support. But as I said, that's honestly not a discussion you seem to have started. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

MPJ-DK I already said I dropped the ANI matter. The article is sufficiently messed up for a deletion nomination. I never said all professional wrestling will be sanctioned or anything, what are you on about? I said violating WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:POV as you are doing with this article can get wrestling sanctioned at ANI, and lets face the fact PW has already been sanctioned for doing these in the past. The discussion I started is nothing but regarding the validity of this article, and it doesn't seem to have any validity and appears to fit the quality of an article to be for deletion. Keep in mind WP:PW/RS Blatt isn't the only issue, the article is absolutely has 0 valid source. The 1905 title article has a news article from 1905 but this article derived from a single unreliable source that never existed before 2010 yet claims of this dubious title. This has no valid source and should be deleted. Dilbaggg (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Dilbaggg WP:PW is more messed up than I thought, take that to ANI and see more sanctions for more wp:or and wp:pov violations. Yes where would I ever get such an idea from. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

AHHHH I see, you think that the PROJECT will get sanctioned? So the current sanctions imposed are not on WP:PW but on the topic of professional wrestling. So not sure what you think this will do to a project where members may or may not have even had a hand in writing it? Please do enlighten me as to what you think would be done? MPJ-DK (talk) 16:02, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

And do you actually know what the topic was sanctioned for? You seem to fill in your own blank that it was sanctioned for "general lack of reliable sources". Not the discussion I remember, but hey milage may vary. *Shrugs* MPJ-DK (talk) 16:05, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

MPJ-DK Please stop breaking WP:Civility. I have explained enough that I never said anything about taking it to ANI, but rather that this qualifies for ANI sanction which PW is already in for continuing to violate WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:POV. So I dropped the ANI matter LONG ago, stop drifting away from the main discussion, the mess of the article, the lack of any reliable source totally makes it invalid and qualifies it for a nomination for deletion. Dilbaggg (talk) 16:09, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Civil? Sorry if you think repeating your own words are uncivil, I'll definitly stop quoting you to you, not a problem. I don't think it's uncivil to state that the tone of your original post really makes it hard to want to have any sort of rational discussion. Don't worry I won't quote you again about the whole feminist thing-a-mabob (thing-a-mabetty?), instead I'll just stop feeding what seems to be an agenda driven discussion. MPJ-DK (talk) 16:15, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Do not disregard the main reason behind this discussion, violations of WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:POV. Yes I said its driven by a post 2010 propaganda, there is no source at all about this title before 2010, unlike the 1905 world title which has its own news publications from the year 1905 like this [1]and of-course later years, it is well established fact that was the first world title. This article is based on a single unreliable source [2], non of the female wrestlers mentioned here before the arrival of the NWA have their articles citing a source they ever won this title, infact prior to 2012 (the unreliable source in question was published in 2011, it does not even fit WP:PW/RS) their article doesn't event mention them as wrestlers, but mere strongwomen (weight lifters). The concept of this title appears to be entirely a work of fiction derived from a fictional writing in 2011, with no citations ever before that, and no reliable sources after that. Anyway this qualifies for a deletion nomination, lets the points made here be seen and then it get judged. Dilbaggg (talk) 16:30, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Not The First World Championship

Well now that User:MPJ-DK acknowledges that it was not a world title per source, and as per no WP:PW/RS it is equivalent to the World Heavyweight Wrestling Championship (original version) the entire article should be renamed as the Women's Championship and I won't even bother removing the other misinformation this contains, I will just leave it alone. So sympathizing with WP:PW members I and based on all thats been discussed on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Women's World Championship I just propose a peaceful move of this article to just "Women's Championship". I will later create an article about the first men's wrestling championship ever: George Washington (yes the first President) won one when he was 18 in the 18th Century [3]Dilbaggg (talk) 19:20, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

• Didn't actually say that, so this discussion is off to a great start. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:55, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

No lineage Connection

I see no WP:RS connecting this title to NWA World Women's Championship and WWWA World Single Championship. WP:RS lists it simply as women's championship, not women's world championship. As per source given [4] [Mildred Burke] simply became the first NEA World Women's Championship defeating a Clara Mortenson, of whom we know nothing about, whether at all she won this title. After Burke lost the title to June Byers, the WWWA World Single Championship. But no connection can be made to this women's championship. Dilbaggg (talk) 20:53, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

• Article does not claim that it is connected, so +1 for making a claim that's not in the article, you are totally correct. It's also not related to the WWE Divas Championship nor the IWGP Heavyweight Championship in case someone is wondering about facts that are not actually stated in the article. MPJ-DK (talk) 20:59, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
  • [[MPJ-DK well the article looks beautiful now, even if there are some unreliable contents, I have no more issues, feel free to continue improving the quality of this article, while I focus on my next project. Cheers. Dilbaggg (talk) 21:02, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
    • Dilbaggg - So none of the original content issues have been resolved, including the first champion - who definitely wasn't a professional wrestler is still listed there. What exactly was the point of all of this? MPJ-DK (talk) 21:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
      • I proved my point this was not a world champion and Mildred Burke was the first female world champion ever but that was a totally different title and has no link to this. Dilbaggg (talk) 21:26, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
        • Ok Cora Livingston's article notes her as the first world champion, other than a single source we have no match records ever of the strong women before her being wrestles and holding wrestling title, one source was used to misinterpret weightlifting championship as women's championship. Cora is the first to have multiple sources that follow WP:RS guidelines to be counted as world champion, and as the source already cites her as the first women's champion, i have no more objection. Dilbaggg (talk) 23:08, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
          • Even if Josephine Blatt was a wrestler, the women's championship she won was never called world championship and it has no link to the title Cora Livingston who is acknowledged as the first female world champion, won. You can check the non WP:PW/RS stuffs that claim Josephine was a champion, [5], it never says she was world champion, and non of the other women listed before Cora are named there, they have no WP:V at all. We cannot mix Josi's women's title with the first women's world championship without proof, no link exists. [6] the source says it all, Josie won the first women's championship but the first world women's championship was won in 1910 by Livingston. Quoting it, see the snapshot:

File:R406c0W.png

• In conclusion, all this could have been avoided if you had done the work instead of bitching about her not being a wrestler and stuff. Do. The. Work. MPJ-DK (talk) 01:46, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
  • One more image connecting the final dot, the world women's championship and the women's championship were indeed separated the article proves it.

File:L80VPfp.png

A comedy of errors

God this would be funny it it wasn't so sad. In the source added by the person complaining this was "post 2010 feminist fictions" and that there was no record of the first listed champion being the champion nor her being a professional wrestler. Fast Forward through accusations of OR, not working in good faith and other interpretations and what happens? User:Dilbaggg himself adds a citation to ... a printed source that states that "Josie Wahlford was the Gassette's first champion".... thank you for proving your own original point null and void. MPJ-DK (talk) 21:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

MPJ-DK Yes as long as you keep in mind that per WP:RS it was the first women's championship not world championship, I have no more issues. Dilbaggg (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Well except with understanding Wikipedia guidelines, owning up to being wrong, making factually wrong statemets and raising a pissstorm over content that you were able to source yourself.... yeah "no more issues". MPJ-DK (talk) 21:14, 11 April 2020 (UTC)