See MOS:LEAD for help in addressing the following comments:
I see no reason why there should be so many paragraphs. The article has less than 22,000 characters, which means the lead should be no more than three paragraphs long (MOS:LEADLENGTH) Done
The lead section needs to be “a summary of its most important contents”, but it is not. For instance, nothing is included of Pilecki’s life before World War II; Done
Much of the content in the last two paragraphs is excessively detailed for a lead section, and these paragraphs include “significant information... not covered in the remainder of the article” Done
The information in the lead does not need to cited (except any quote you choose to keep in, see MOS:LEADCITE)
It does not but it can be, and this article has been a subject of some edit warring and other editorial disputes in the past. Hence the high density of citations in the lead (particularly relevant to the term volunteer, but some folks have also disputed other statements). I'll see if I can remove some redundant duplicate+ footnotes from it as I address your various points. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:42, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
There are redundant citations (e.g. following In 1940 Pilecki volunteered and new communist authorities.) All the references can be moved to the main article (if they are not there already), as the information in the lead is not controversial
Done, although the cavalry masterin the infobox was weird, instead, I've added and linked rotmistrz. I linked resistance to a more general term as the specific Polish resistance link was added to the lead in the expanded early life.
Polish is not linked in the infobox? Poland was unlike, how about Russian Empire?
Happy for these links, but any links to modern Poland are misleading, considering the changes that have occurred during its history. AM
Link Warszawianka Company (Kompania NSZ „Warszawianka in the Polish Wikipedia) in the infobox, using {{Template:Ill}}
Done, and I've added that detail to the body (where it can be verified with the existing refs used there).
Polish Government-in-Exile – small e in exile Done
Fighting Auschwitz: The Resistance Movement in the Concentration Camp should linked in its entirety Done
It might be worth placing the codenames in a separate note (see MOS:FIRST); N
More comments to follow. Please indicate where you have addressed any issues using Done. I will cross out comments I think are sorted, and add a small red cross (N) if more needs to be done to address a comment. Amitchell125 (talk) 16:39, 4 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Consider putting szlachta in italics and amending to {{lang|pl|szlachta}} to indicate it is a Polish word. Unless you tell me you don't want me to, I'll be bold and put similar 'lang' templates in as I meet them.
Technical query: I don't mind the italics if MoS mandates it, but the word is used in English without italics too. Also, how do we include a wikilnk in that template? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:39, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
If the word is used in English, I think it can be left as it is. AM
had been deported to Russia – I would include that the family originated from Lithuania, according to Ref 7 (Cuber-Strutyńska) Done
The Polish Wikipedia article (and Cuber-Strutyńska as well) gives more details about Pilecki's background and early years. Could these not be included?
Pl wiki may not always cite references, but if there is something pertinent in C-S source, like the Lithuanian detail, please mention it here and I'll add it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:39, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
See C-S pp. 282/283 (details of the estate he settled in during the 1920s); other useful sources used by the Polish Wikipedia seem to be self-published, e.g. this. AM
Amend ZHP to ‘Związek Harcerstwa Polskiego (ZHP)’ Done
I looked again and didn't see anything I found interesting, maybe the tidbit that the estate was "dowered by his great-grandmother"? But it seems trivial to me. Do let me know if you disagree or if I missed something else. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:11, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Understood, but I disagree. Where do you stop with providing links for younger readers? MOS:OL asks editors to consider whether "reading the article you're about to link to would help someone understand the article you are linking from". As World War I, covers every aspect of the war, every theatre, and every period, I would not send a reader to the article. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:34, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Errr, is your last sentence was intended? I do think that linking WWI helps a younger reader. Shall we call a WP:3O? I don't have strong feelings, but I'd rather keep the link if it's the same to you. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:13, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
My typo. We can agree to keep it. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:37, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Comma after Białystok Done
szeregowy - as there is an article in the Polish Wikipedia, consider amending szeregowy (private) to ' Szeregowy [pl] (private)'
defending the city of Grodno – as the city was not in Belarus (as it is today), perhaps it could be clarified that at the time it was a Polish city Done as "then-Polish"
Consider adding this map to the subsection to help clarify the text. Done but I am not sure it is for the best, we may have now some image-infobox text sandwiching, and is that map really particularly helpful? We also mention other cities, why the special treatment for that one? We could add map of the Polish-Soviet war, but again, that seems not super relevant IMHO, readers can visit articles about cities/wars to see more context and maps and such. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:46, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Understood. AM
1.3 Interwar years
non-commissioned officer is unnecessarily linked twice in the same paragraph Done + removed a bunch more duplicate links I noticed with this pass of a highlight dupe links gadget. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Andrzej (16 January 1932) and Zofia (14 March 1933) – the dates of birth of non-notable people are unneeded here Done and added a pl wiki link to Zofia as she has a bio on pl wiki. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I’m unclear what the significance of the chairman of a dairy is In progress Indeed that sounds out of place. It's from Ewa Cuber-Strutyńska's article where she writes "As a founder of a farmers’ association and chairman of a dairy he established himself, Pilecki was active also in his local community.". Any ideas on how we can rewrite it elegantly here without too close paraphrasing? This also could help address the issue below. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
see comment below. AM
I would move Pilecki was active in the local community, he was the chairman of a dairy and founded a farmer's association. He was also an amateur poet and painter. to a separate paragraph, as it is not related to his military activism during this period. - Right, but a) it would create a short paragraph and b) ECS mixes this info into other stuff, just we do. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I suspect he did a great deal for others. How about amending Pilecki was active in the local community, he was the chairman of a dairy and founded a farmer's association. to something like 'Pilecki actively supported the local farming community.' I'm not too concerned about the paragraph-splitting, it was a consideration. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:29, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
was mobilized as – aren’t whole forces and supplies mobilized, not individuals? I'm unsure here... If true, amend to ‘became’ -> A curosy google books/scholar check does confirm the use of "he was mobilized" in this context... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I would include a brief introduction about the events leading up to the German invasion of Poland to explain why Pilecki had to join the 19th Infantry -> Errr, which events? Like, why did the Germans invade? I've added the "With Polish-German tensions growing in mid-1939," to the opening of this paragraph, I think this should be sufficient for the context? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
A new sentence starting from from August 1940? Done
his ideology – I would amend this to ‘official TAP ideology’ or ‘Włodarkiewicz’s own ideology’ for the sake of clarity Done Should it be TAP or TAP's? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:40, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
the Union of Armed Struggle (ZWZ) – include the Polish name along with the abbreviation ZWZ, for the sake of consistency Done
Unlink anti-Semitic in the quote (MOS:LWQ)In progress Hmmm, but the concept of anti-semitism is quite relevant to the context of this article. Any idea where we could move it instead? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:41, 13 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I would replace ...Pilecki saw that Włodarkiewicz was "flirting with anti-Semitic views" and had... with the more direct '...Pilecki saw that Włodarkiewicz's views had become more anti-semitic, and that he had...'. Amitchell125 (talk) 13:00, 13 February 2022 (UTC) DoneReply
1.4.3 Auschwitz
The hatnote should be omitted, see Template:Main for why it is incorrectly placed here Done
Dupicate link - Auschwitz concentration camp (amend to ‘Auschwitz’ as its nature has already been explained) Done
According to WP:IMAGESIZE "Except with very good reason, do not use px (e.g. |thumb|300px), which forces a fixed image width measured in pixels, disregarding the user's image size preference setting." Apologies if I've misunderstood this statement. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:34, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Hmm, interesting. I count 5 images outside the infobox which use px parameter, should be remove it from all and see what happens? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:43, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I would amend the image in this subsection to upright=1.5. and not enlarge the others—when i checked, that seemed to work. Amitchell125 (talk) 11:58, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
, and, along with – the sentence needs to be split here, as it currently reads as if Pilecki's journey to the camp and arrival there are all part of the the second backstory
In autumn 1941 he was promoted to porucznik (first lieutenant) - it's perhaps not clear to readers how a man can be promoted when an inmate at Auschwitz.In progress Hmm, the source doesn't clarify, but I think it's not that confusing. He was promoted outside the camp by his superiors, not sure when he learned about it but presumably that's the date on the documents. I am not sure how to clarify this in the absence of sources discussing this in more detail? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
How about something like '..he learnt that "“far away in the outside world in Warsaw" he had been promoted to porucznik... ' (C-S p.288)? Amitchell125 (talk) 14:43, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Isn't that language a bit unencyclopedic? But maybe I misunderstood something - would you mind tweaking the sentence first, and then I'll see how it looks? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:44, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Done—the words in quotes are Pilecki's. Amitchell125 (talk) 12:07, 16 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I'm assuming you're OK with my edit—please feel free to adjust it as needed. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:06, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Link back-stories (Backstory) Done and removed the hyphen
Include the full Polish name of the ZOW where it is introduced Done
to better inmate morale – ‘to improve the morale of the inmates’ sounds better Done
from outside -’from outside the camp’ Done
For the sake of consistency, ZOW should be italics throughout Done
kommandos – shouldn't this German term be in italics and with a capital letter?In progress Italics, perhaps, capital, probably not, see also Kommando. I've added italics for now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
While at Auschwitz is redundant - Done changed to "As part of his duties," since I felt the paragraph needs some opening
I would add more details (using Cuber-Strutyńska, p295) to explain at the beginning of the subsection how Pilecki’s reports reached Home Army headquarters, (incorporating Further dispatches of Pilecki's were likewise smuggled out by individuals who managed to escape from Auschwitz.) Done
a Home Army report on "The Terror and Lawlessness of the Occupiers - ‘a Home Army report, "The terror and lawlessness of the occupiers”’ (note the lack of capitals) Done - but it's a translation anyway... should we add the title of the Polish original? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Errr, I would say keep it in correct English (or Polish or both). AM
was also broadcasting details – ‘was using a home-made radio transmitter to broadcast details’ improves the prose Done
The secret radio station – The ‘transmitter’? This text begins an overlong sentence that should be split Done
it was broadcasting – ‘it broadcasted’ Done
These reports were a principal source – it should be made clear whether These reports here were the ones smuggled out of the camp, or the ones that were broadcasted. In progress I think the written ones were more important, also, the radio ones were written down, I doubt the radio in the camp had much range. However, the wording in the sources is not very precise when it comes to distinguishing them. See also Witold's Report, the terminology is inconsistent, as in - the reports were plural, obviously, but they are also lumped together into one "work" called a singular report... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
How about amending These reports (specific) to something along the lines of 'The information provided by Pilecki' (non-specific)? Amitchell125 (talk) 14:56, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I would combine the first (very short) paragraph with the second one, as they are connected Done
The image would be better placed alongside the relevant text, i.e. higher up In progress It looks fine to me but if you think a tweak would help, would you mind moving it to where you think is best? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Already done? AM
Meanwhile – has little meaning here, as events are not being described in this paragraphIn progress I rearranged the paragraphs instead?
No it was redundant, apologies for not being clearer. Word now removed, please revert if I have altered the meaning. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:15, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
personally and After that are redundant In progress I concur with the first, but the second seems to fit well, I replaced it with a shorter 'Later'. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
outside the camp perimeter – but they are not outside the fence already? Perhaps this detail can be omittedIn progress Perhaps the perimeter is used here in the sense of nearby area within the range of searchlight, etc.? That's my impression. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Understood. AM
They headed east – the text from here onwards should be in the next paragraph In progress Is it really necessary? The paragraph doesn't seem to long, and it would mean copying the reference footnotes... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:55, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
See the second paragraph ("While in various slave labor kommandos and surviving pneumonia at Auschwitz, Pilecki organized an underground Military Organization). Amitchell125 (talk) 15:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
More to follow. it is starting to look as if the article needs quite a lot of work before it can be promoted. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:43, 6 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
1.4.4 Outside Auschwitz
Dupicate link - Home Army; ZOW (in coordinating ZOW) Done during an earlier pass.
an initial report – I would omit initial, as it seems to contradict the idea that reports had already come out of Auschwitz Done
focused – 'which focused' Done
I would simplify rejected this proposal, since the camp's resistance was judged to lack sufficient strength to provide noticeable assistance during such an operation to ‘judged such an attack would fail’ Done
for rescued inmates – ‘for the rescued inmates’ Done
Unlink Soviet in Soviet Red Army Done
Kedyw is in italics Done As in, it should be in ialics, I assume.
Roman Jezierski is in italics? (as in the lead) Done Changed to italics. Done
Later – if there is no date available, this should be omitted (MOS:RELTIME) Done
providing what limited support he could to ZOW - ‘providing ZOW with what limited support he could’ sounds better IMO Done
NIE should be introduced using the full term.In progress This is not an acronym, as far as I can tell, this is the name of the organization. It means NO in Polish and unofficially it has been explained as a short from the Polish word for independence ("niepodległość") as well as affirmation of the rejection of communism. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 18:57, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
city center – is the article written in British English (as in autumn, above), or in American English (as here)?In progress I have no preference, but as an ESLer, I do tend to mix them occasionally. Whichever ones requires less rewriting is the one I'd chose :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:47, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
OK, I think BE requires less work, so I've added the template to the talk page and tweaked center. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:37, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
After the fall of the uprising – a date would be useful here Done
He survived until liberation in 1945 at Oflag VII-A, in Murnau, Bavaria - seems in need of copy editing to improve the prose. Something like 'He was sent to Oflag VII-A, a prison-of-war camp for Polish officers located north of Murnau, Bavaria, where he remained until the prisoners were liberated in 1945.' And added a date for the camp liberation, with a ref. Done
1.5 After the war
General Władysław Anders – should only be linked once in this section, and his name changed to 'Anders' after the first mention. Done unless you meant we should also remove General? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:01, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
In this section and the next one, there is no need for the images to be enlargedIn progress I assume this is related to what we discuss above, and hopefully fixed by now? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:01, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Pilecki left Murnau – seems to say he remained in the town once he was released, which I am assuming is incorrectIn progress I am not sure I follow. But since the previous section says he remained in Murnay until liberation, I just removed the 'left Murnau' entirely as superficial/redundant. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:01, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Lt. Colonel should be unabbreviated Done and linked the lt col article
he arrived – he had arrived Done
Unlink Italy Done
Link show trial Done
with the mission of gathering intelligence for II Corps duplicates what has already been said in the paragraph Done
He would work – ‘He worked’ Done
written to Cyrankiewicz among others is redundant imoIn progress The controversy about Cyrankiewicz, a fellow inmate, turning his back on him, is something that some sources discuss in more detail. So I think this can stay. In fact, I wonder if this shouldn't be expanded into a dedicated sentence at least. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:01, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Expanding this is a good idea. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:43, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
received death sentence - ‘received death sentences’ Done
2 Legacy
Duplicate link - Powązki Cemetery Done during an earlier pass
The upper image shows very little of the monument and a lot of background, consider replacing it with something like this one Done
Amend the fall of communism and Pilecki's rehabilitation to something like ‘the fall of communism in Poland and Pilecki's subsequent rehabilitation’ Done
From the 1990s, following the fall of communism and Pilecki's rehabilitation is redundant hereIn progress Didn't you mean the repetition about the fall of communism following this sentence? (Which I removed) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Yes. AM
he has been a subject – ‘Pilecki has been a subject’In progress Are you sure? It would repeat his name twice in a short sentence. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
You're correct. AM
Link monograph; communism; martyrology Done Although note I linked the word earlier (as well as in lead, also linked to anti-communism). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
After the fall of communism, a cenotaph to him was erected – the cenotaph might have been erected years afterward, is there a citation for this statement?In progress I can find sources that a symbolic grave, aka cenotaph, is there (ex. [1]), but not for when it was erected. It existed at least as far back as 2002 when his wife was buried there [2]. For now, I removed the mention of it as it doesn't seem particularly important. Also, there my be more than one symbolic grave for him, I found references to at least two or three such locations. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I would use an English translation for a museum, Dom Rodziny Pileckich e.g.. 'The Pilecki Family House Museum' Done Note I retained the Polish name, as I cannot locate the official English translation. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
(though, as of 2020, it had not yet been fully opened to the public) – looks like the text here needs updating (see here)In progress Grrr. This October 2020 article states that the museum building is still waiting to be officially opened, but This article, from February 2020, states that the official opening ceremony took place in October 2019. The Museum abut page is useless, just states that the governing body (bodies) were elected in 2020 and 2021. This architectural magazine notes the Museum building was finished in 2020. It's possible the museum was partially or temporarily opened in 2019, but became fully operational in 2020. Oh, and here, it says that the permanent exhibition is planned to be opened in 2022... so I guess it is still not opened yet? Fully, at least? Aargh. How do you want to handle this? I did try to update this myself for now. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:44, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I think you've done as much as you can, the picture will be clearer in future months, and can perhaps be updated then. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:46, 18 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Final comments to follow. AM
References
@Piotrus: Whilst I'm checking the references, I'll be amending them (adding links etc.). As a reviewer, I know it's a good idea for me not to get too involved with editing, but tweaking the references won't alter the text of the article - I'll that side to you. Please revert/ping me if I've made an error in good faith. Amitchell125 (talk) 17:27, 4 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Looking again at this section, there appear to be a number of different styles of formatting used throughout the article – see MOS:NOTES (“Editors may use any citation method they choose, but it should be consistent within an article.”) Amitchell125 (talk) 12:55, 5 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Good point. My current preferred style is as seen in Witold_Pilecki#cite_note-:1-15 (Wysocki). One reference per book with {{rp}} used for page numbers in the article's body (the template is not needed for non-books as I think we don't cite specific pages for articles?). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:03, 5 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for your reply, I'm of course happy with any one style (yours included). Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 16:07, 5 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 14 February to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 11:47, 6 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
The lead section looks sorted, so I'll collapse it down. Amitchell125 (talk) 07:41, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Piotrus, now we've started, I'd like to keep going, but I don't want the process to be protracted. I can extend the GAN for another week until 21 February if you're able to continue addressing the issues. Amitchell125 (talk) 08:10, 15 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
The article is looking fine, and is now easily at GA. Congratulations, passing now—many thanks for all your work. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:17, 19 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
