Talk:Wisbech

Pronunciation

How to pronounce Wisbech? Factual information based on the historical evidence is presented below regarding the change in pronunciation of the the name of the Town of Wisbech. Comments from people living in Wisbech showing varying opinions from current residents suggesting a diversity of opinion regarding modern pronunciation:

Opinions of pronunciation

Comment 1 - It's worth remembering that the second syllable of 'Wisbech' is the same as the second syllable of 'cabbage'. Often the media pronounce the second syllable as if it were 'beach', but this is inaccurate.

Comment 2 - I'm a little confused by this. The secon syllable is surely pronounced "beach". I was born and raised in the place so I have a little authority on the subject. Epeeist smudge 11:54, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Comment 3 - I was also born and bred in Wisbech, and have carried out research on the local dialect there: a 'beach' pronunciation of the second syllable was used either by non-locals or by middle class people (who are more likely to use 'standard' rather than local pronunciations). Local vernacular speakers of the dialect pronounced the second syllable as 'bidge', to rhyme with Cabbage, as the first commentor suggests.

Comment 4 - No they don't or at least not any more. I was brought up in Wisbech and my parents still live there. I've never heard anyone pronounce it like that regardless of class (I went to the Queens School not the Grammar). Say it like you suggest and you won't sound like a local but somone putting on a bad South African accent. Cp6ap 00:50, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Note from previous editor: I don't claim any local knowledge, but the the present IPA transcription seems to me to be nonsensical whichever version is deemed to be "correct". Without wishing to take sides, I have changed it to accord with what seems to be majority opinion. Vilĉjo 21:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Historical evidence

This document from 1830 shows that Wisbech was probably, at that time, pronounced 'Wisbidge' as it was even spelled 'Wisbidge'.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=apIJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA432&lpg=PA432&dq=pronounce+wisbidge&source=bl&ots=RECutjt2G5&sig=rkGw8uCNmfj2J_eV2deAPzBgQ7E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xxzZVM7vD9PtareVgvAC&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=pronounce%20wisbidge&f=false 

Within the book are extracts from earlier documents from 1620 that use the Wisbich spelling. The book also includes a spelling of the Wisbeech ending. The author of the book uses the 'Wisbidge' spelling and ending!

I have also found that similarly some people pronounce Norwich - Noritch or even Norwitch, and again the more historical and local and pronunciation is Noridge. Again this uses the word end pronunciation as in cabbage.

Modern pronunciation is due to large number of people coming into the area after the 70's. I was born nearby and my family are from Wisbech for over two hundred years and we have always, as locals, pronounced it 'Wisbidge'. However, this has been changing and more recently with wider communication people are using the 'beach' ending.

The comments suggest that the heritage is being lost and many are suggest that the 'idge' ending is not correct. However, the evidence from historical literature is 'proof' that the original ending is indeed 'bidge'. If you were born after the 1970's it is unsurprising that you use the modern pronunciation - but you are losing the history of the Town. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BombadilT (talk • contribs) 21:11, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Further comments and opinions:

Eaxample 1 - I was born and raised in Wisbech too, and agree that we always pronounced it as in "beach". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dacsmsu (talk • contribs) 19:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Example 2 - It is now pronouned as Beach, it has also in the past been pronounced bitch, beck. The answer to everyone's question is that the present spelling once was spelt 'Wisbeach' like nearby Holbeach & Waterbeach, I was born in Wisbech and still live there today, I just happen to be on my holiday in Oregon, USA at present! Jason Turner, Clarkson Court, Lynn Road, Wisbech, Cambs, PE13 ***....

Example 3 -

My parents lived in March in the 1980s, and we often went to Wisbech of course... I can tell you that only the lah-dee-dah incomers pronounced it (incorrectly) "Wiz-beach", the locals always say it as "Wiz-bidge". Despite being from the south, we certainly made the effort to pronounce it as the locals do. 82.153.111.118 (talk) 10:08, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Readers note -

It would be good for someone with local knowledge of the town to add an explanation of the various pronunciations, following Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation. Duffit5 (talk) 15:08, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

The Liber Eliensis translated by Janet Fairweather (2005) has Wisbech as WisebecheFenlandier (talk) 23:10, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

References

Name Origin

Moll's 1724 map of "Lincoln shire", clearly marking the "Sea Dike" near by "Wisbeach"

Also The town lies at the centre of a group of villages which contain the word "walh" from the Saxon for "foreigner". This provides evidence that during this period, the local population was Romano British (Celtic) - This is rather speculative and it does not necessarily follow. It could be that it derives from "wall" meaning wall or ramparts. If this was a fortified isle, that would make sense. AtomBoy (talk) 16:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I read somewhere that the spelling of the town in the old days could either be Wisbech, or Wisbeach. And that the Railways/Post Office asked for a standard spelling, the Town Council adopted the present spelling viz Wisbech. I have also seen that the name was taken from an Anglo Saxon Chieftain. And was most probably Wisbeck (Beck being river or stream)Betty Butt (talk) 04:53, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

See http://www.norfolkbroads.com/regional-information/regional-towns-and-villages/wisbechBetty Butt (talk) 05:11, 19 December 2009 see also http://wisbech-town.co.uk/index.htmBetty Butt (talk) 03:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

The group of villages with Wal. Names are situated close to the former sea wall or bank.Fenlandier (talk) 22:56, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Well, there certainly was one but it's rather off topic for Wisbech's own name, isn't it? — LlywelynII 14:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

The real crime rate?

It would be nice to know what the real crime rate is and how this compares with other places in the UK.

Rabbits

The section on the Roundabout Rabbits seems to have been hijacked by someone opposed to their removal and as such I call into question its neutrality. While it is worth mentioning their fate, the wording is rather graphic and the description of the post-rabbit roundabout is also somewhat negative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slarham (talk • contribs) 00:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Haha, I'm personally quite a big fan of that section. It's very Richard Adams! I can't help thinking it was written by someone with their tongue firmly in cheek. D. Lion West (talk) 09:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Complete citations

All of the sources using www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk need complete cites. Most readers will not have access. User-duck (talk) 23:28, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Indiscriminate information

Sorry to be negative, I can see a lot of work and research has gone into this article, but unfortunately a lot of the information seems to be structured quite indiscriminately, with fairly important events alongside often quite trivial factoids "The British Archaeological Association's 35th Annual Congress was held in Wisbech in August 1878. Its president was the then Earl of Hardwicke" - so what? Or "On 20 September 1916, The Electric Theatre advertised in ‘’The Era’’ for two musicians." Why would a reader be interested? All sections seem to be primarily made up of short sentences without explaining the significance of the information. For example "The Wisbech Fruit Preserving Company Ltd was wound up in 1894." - what's the significance? Around it are quite a few other fruit-related facts, so there could be a paragraph on fruit production, for example. The whole article is rather like that, I'd recommend looking into making single sentence facts into paragraphs. It's also worth having a look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trivia sections to see what to avoid. Bob talk 01:22, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree. At some point, I will attempt to work on this. The size of this article is overwhelming.

Oh my, all the one sentence "paragraphs", then the "Sport" section, with all the subsections!Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 00:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Clearly, individuals with an intense interest in the town have worked hard to collate all these factoids. I sincerely hope that some historical society's website contains as much or more information, as Wikipedia is not a webhost.--Quisqualis (talk) 01:47, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Has anyone communicated with Fenlandier about what is and what is not appropriate for an article on a modest-sized, town, albeit one with a long history? The shock of seeing the article cut be more than half may be severe. David notMD (talk) 12:27, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Crime and justice

Is it just me, or does the "Crime and justice" section seem to be overly-long and stuffed full of historical trivia? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Martinevans123, yes, see my note above. Much of this article consists of disjointed factoids.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 21:16, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Ah yes. I see. A major trim required, I think. I've had second thoughts about adding Ricardas Puisys. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:18, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I read about Puisys today and thought..Wisbech! Factoid! It may be interesting to see if the major contributor to the article adds the info.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 21:22, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Hmmm. 83%. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:29, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I have my eye on 70.7%, but, yup....Seriously, if "we" could work towards linking the factoids into a narrative, it would be a great improvement. The Sport section has *Nineteen* subsectons! Yikes! Wisbech must be the center of the world for sport. Hare coursing, cock fighting, bull running, greyhound racing...imagine the hostels and training centers required to host these world-class athletes.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:13, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Cross Keys Bridge

Seems to care a lot about Wisbech even if the Wisbech article seems to have culled mention of the bridge. It currently includes the idea

The Borough of Wisbech was the port authority for this part of the River Nene. The emblem of Wisbech is the cross keys of St Peter.[2][3]

neither of which points—or the bridge itself—seem to be present here.

More to the point, it seems off based on the (unsourced but presumably accurate) information at Sutton Bridge discussing the formerly important Crosskeys or Cross Keys Wash that used to exist around present-day Walpole Cross Keys, which should be sourced and then mentioned here. Apparently there are also some bits about King John & other people having issues with it. — LlywelynII 14:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)