Talk:Windsor, Ontario/Archive 1

Age?

In the demographics section, why isn't there any average ages listed? Can we get this information and post this, please? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bllasae (talk • contribs) 23:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Are these facts true or not?

These parts simply aren't true, and they are in the opening: "Windsor the southernmost city in Canada," and "Windsor is located south of Detroit and marks the only location where entering the United States from Canada involves traveling north."

No, both of those points are true. The Canadian communities south of Windsor are classified as towns, not cities. There is no other border crossing location that involves traveling north from Canada to the U.S. User:Embee473 18:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Travelling to Alaska from BC or the Yukon (or any province for that matter) involves travelling north also Whitehorse would be located south of Alaska also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.139.93.185 (talk) 14:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The statement in the article currently says, "Windsor marks the only location where crossing the border from Canada into the contiguous United States involves travelling north." (emphasis added). Alaska is not part of the contiguous USA. PKT(alk) 15:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The Indians living on the Northwest Angle reserve on Lake of the Woods in Northwestern Ontario can travel southwest into Manitoba... Not sure if there is an official crossing there. Northwest_Angle--207.236.177.82 (talk) 19:49, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah as well as the climate and economy are true because I have put them there from data I personally research and report I have gathered and ever better I know first hand because I live here in Windsor, Ontario. Now about the economy it's true it's getting really bad people are losing their jobs left and right in the automotive industries and manufacturing plants and many may think that "Oh well I don't work in that field so it won't effect me." Well thats not necessarily true the auto industries in Windsor, Ontario are what makes Windsor what it is and if that falls everything else will soon fall with it. And if you still don't believe me read the Windsor Star newspaper or A-channel News or simply ask somebody else who lives in Windsor. Prince Diamond 07:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly Windsor was called "Sandwich" at the time of the construction of the Ambassador Bridge; however, details are sketchy. Does anyone have more info about this? It might be good for the article.

It used to be in Sandwich Township Earl Andrew 01:00, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

(I will add to this Sandwich Township Today is nothing more then a old relic of the many small town that merged into one city called Windsor. In part the west end of Windsor is still called sandwich or ye Old Sandwich town by many people because of it's different appearance from the rest of the city it still retains many old but renewed structures that have been around since the war of 1812 such historical places like the Duff Baby house, St.John's Church and Cemetery and General Brock school which used to be a fort.Prince Diamond 07:29, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Windsor was never called Sandwich, Sandwich was originally a separate township. The Ambassador Bridge was completed in 1929, and was technically situated in Sandwich, since Windsor didn't annex Sandwich until 1935. Doze 18:04, 09 May 2006 (UTC)

Alaska? No. I live in Prince George British Columbia but I was born in Windsor lived there till I was 12 years of age. I have been back since. I am very proud to be from Windsor. It is full of history and great stories. When ever someone asks me where I am from I tell them that I am from Windsor even though I have been living in British Columbia 18 years.

Yeah, Windsor is the Southernmost city in Canada, and it links to America(Detroit) by way of the Ambassador Bridge/Tunnel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bllasae (talk • contribs) 01:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Prince Diamond, what the hell is the relevancy of jobs being lost in Windsor's auto industry have anything to do with it's geography? My god man, you rant like a schizophrenic. ----192.75.71.133 (talk) 19:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It is true that Richmond was a proposed name for what is now downtown Windsor, but I would like to see a citation for the assertion in the article that Richmond was used by anyone to describe the area, let alone the Post Office, up until after WWII. I lived in Windsor 14 years, and have read lots of Windsor history books, and I have never once seen any indication that the name Richmond was ever more than one of the proposed names amongst many. There is no discussion in this article that the name Windsor probably came from The Windsor Castle -- alas, not the one in England as the article states but a hotel/tavern which stood on the south side of what is now Riverside Drive (then Sandwich St.) between Ouellette Avenue and Ferry St. Also, most of what is now Windsor was created by amalgamation of the Border Cities, a most impractical municipal arrangement that was destined for such a end. The bulk of the amalgamation was done as a result of the depression, but the town of Riverside lived on until later. People in Windsor still refer to the neighbourhoods that correspond to the old towns and cities by their original names, ie, Walkerville, Sandwich, and Riverside, although Ford City (along Drouillard Road) has died out even as a name for a neighbourhood. By the way, Sandwich and Windsor were once separate municipalities, and Sandwich the former town is not to be confused with Sandwich the township as some people writing here have done. The former town of Sandwich is in the west end of modern Windsor, and was populated as a settlement when the location of modern downtown Windsor, a few miles to the east, was still just open farmland. At the time of the War of 1812, the area around the Baby House in what is now downtown Windsor was fields, whereas Sandwich was a town. In 1837, Canadian militia under Col Prince fought and defeated Canadian rebels who entered from the US, just to the west of the Baby House, in a farm orchard. So Sandwich, now a city neighbourhood, was an existing settlement with commercial development long before Windsor was built up. Sandwich pretty well was founded as a settlement by people who didn't want to stay in Detroit when it was handed over to the United States. The site of modern downtown Windsor overtook Sandwich when major commercial development in Detroit occurred directly opposite the foot of what is now Ouellette Avenue, and not across from the old town of Sandwich. TJaques, Oct. 28, 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.34.225.122 (talk) 02:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Windsor Social Stuff

Is it just me or is there TOO MUCH information about Windsor Social on this website? I mean, it's refered to at least 4 times (including the founders being a famous Windsorites?) and that website merits to be part of the media section? I mean it's great to advertise a private site and entrepreneurial spirit, but this is suppsoed to be a non biased place. I've removed most references and just left the link on the bottom --Frankrig 04:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Windsor Social HELPS Windsor

Windsor is a great city with a thriving nightlife with amazing tourism appeal. Nothing on this page helps define the true essence of an industry that plays a major part of a large economic sector of our city. Letting people know that we are able to entertain tourists as well as potential Windsorites. They are providing a viable service and do work with the Downtown Business Improvement Associaltion and the Windsor Visitor's convention Bureau. They are promoting how great a sector of our city really is.

Windsor social doesn't belong on this page since this page is an overview of windsor, not an advertising space for someone's business. Windsor social could go on Windsor's Wiki travel page. Further, those that add the windsor social links, also add themselves to be 'famous windsorites' - blatent self promotion!

Agreed. Keep Windsor Social off the Windsor page -- no matter what they say, they're tourist spam with an advertising revenue model, and not any more worthy of inclusion than any other random local business. (They're also certainly not 'famous Windsorites'). Doze 17:43, 09 May 2006 (UTC)

Famous People

Is it just me, or are some of the people in the famous people list not famous? If you websearch a person's name on Google and it doesn't turn up, are they really that famous? Maybe if someone adds a famous person's name, they should at least make sure there is an article about him/her and if not, should contribute some information. --Frankrig 05:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the list of famous people is a little long and the fame of some of them is dubious. Any fair-sized city is bound to have a great number of semi-famous people, but there's no reason to include them all. If you want to prune the list, you could probably start by removing some of the politicians. (But Herb Gray should definitely stay.) Good job on removing the Windsor Social stuff; that strikes me as vanity. I'd even go as far as removing the external link to their website because I don't think the article benefits from a list of Winsdor bars. --NormanEinstein 13:11, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Good Point. First off, with regards to politicians, we can create a politician section, but maybe some should just be removed from the list and people can use a search if they need to find them. If the Toronto page listed people the way that the Windsor page does... it'd be a nightmare! Furher, I'll remove the windsor social link and put up a link to the Windsor Page of Wikitravel. Windsor social can put their link there. --Frankrig 17:06, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Point #1: Lists of people are to be kept in alphabetical order by surname. In the politicians list, for example, Herb Gray is to be listed before Paul Martin, not after him. And Jack Scott goes before Tamia, not after Alexander Zonjic.

I give you the Martin/Gray argument - it was an oversight... If you look at the history, Jack Scott was added later by someone with just an unknown IP address. If we go by your rule of surname then, should Tamia be then moved to the "W" section since her name is actually Tamia Washington-Hill? --Frankrig 21:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Point #2: "World Renowned" is not a valid subheading. For one thing, there's no such word as "renowned"; it's "reknowned". And, besides, world reknowned what? If you're going to group people by subheadings, their actual occupation is the appropriate subheading. "Political Arena" is also not a valid subheading; it's "Politicians" or nothing. And, too, if you're gonna do this, Sports and Culture should be two separate subheadings, not one.

"Reknowned" 180,000 google hits; "renowned" 24,600,000 hits plus definitions. Perhaps you are claiming that it is not a Canadian spelling but that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Rmhermen 13:56, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

No matter how you spell it, "world re(k)nowned" on its own, without any indication of what they're re(k)nowned for, is not an appropriate subheading for a list of people. That's the primary point here, not the spelling. Bearcat 17:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I just included a world renowned section to make it known that some (former) Windsorites have made it REALLY big (i.e. winning the NOBEL prize!)--Frankrig 21:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Point #3: this is not standard format for lists of notable people from a city anywhere else on Wikipedia; Windsor does not get to make up its own special standards.

Sorry, it was just a suggestion to add subheadings so the list would not just be this large boring list of names. I figured this was easier to read. If this organization is unnacceptable to Wikipedia, then it *could* revert back to the original list style!--Frankrig 21:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Point #4: Several people were removed without justification: on what grounds are Shaughnessy Cohen (the only person in Canadian history ever to actually die in the House of Commons), Howard McCurdy (the first black man to run for the leadership of a political party in Canada), Steven Langdon, or Blake Harper not notable enough to be listed here? Bearcat 01:59, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I have great respect for some of these local politicians but how famous are they really? The list was getting very large (some people were even adding themselves!). Therefore at one point, someone was going to have to make the decision of who really is or isn't famous! For instance, if Steven Langdon was included, then why wasn't Dave Cooke? or David Croll? or Windsor's current two provincial MPPs who are ministers? or even Bishop Frederick Henry? Now, Mr. Langdon should be referenced on NDP history just as Ms. Cohen and Mr. McCurdy should be referenced in the History of Canadian House of Commons/Parliament. Therefore, so that the Windsor page didn't get too large, I figured that we only include those that have made it big and are in the main stream of the media. Any thoughts? --Frankrig 21:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I'd say keep the list slimmed to the truly famous and not just notable people. If we were aiming for Steven Langdon level fame, the list could potentially become enormous. Doze 17:46, 09 May 2006 (UTC)

What about Paul Martin Sr? I would think that he should have been mentioned.

I have also heard that Shania Twain is from Windsor. Can anyone verify?

Yes, Shania is from Windsor. See her entry on Wikipedia. --Marknen

Alright, I took the plunge and chucked a bunch of the so-called "famous people from Windsor" based on 3 criteria: (a) Google searching of the person and the organization they are affiliated with; (b) whether or not they themselves have a Wikipedia entry; and (c) whether I, being from Windsor myself, have ever heard of them locally. Check the edit and comment if you disagree. Doze 21:23, 09 May 2006 (UTC)

Trevor Malcolm: I'm putting him back in. He was a member of a notable indie band (the butthole surfers). Being a member of a notable indie band signed to a major label is notable. Mindme (talk) 13:16, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

According to the band's article, Malcolm was a member for a short time in 1985 before the band did anything of note. I don't agree that he's notable at all, but I'll leave it to other editors to express their opinions. PKT 14:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Eugene McNamara was removed in the last edit of the a&e section. It's pretty clear he's notable. He's got several books listed on amazon.com alone (and he's been published by a major like McGraw Hill). If I understand bear's edit, he removed them because they didn't link into their own wiki page? That's not a criterion for inclusion on a city list of notability, as far as I know, and it seems a little circular. It's only evidence that no one has gotten around to creating a wiki entry for them. Regarding Susan Cygan. She's listed as a notable person for the Wyandotte, Mi w/u. However, a search on Susan Cygan and steppenwolf turns up nothing much. She's not even mentioned on the wiki entry for Steppenwolf Theatre Company. So I'd agree she doesn't meet wiki's notability test. Trevor Malcolm by contrast is mentioned in the butthole wiki article and in a book about the history of the band.

My vote
Eugene McNamara: keep
Susan Cygan: remove
Trevor Malcolm: keep

Mindme (talk) 13:25, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

All people in the list need to be notable enough for their own articles per WP:N and WP:RS. If you want any of them to be kept, write real articles about them first. The only article that's ever been written about Trevor Malcolm, for example, was deleted as non-notable over a year ago. If they were bluelinks, there wouldn't even be a question — but they're not. They're redlinks, which means they don't have articles, and they shouldn't be listed here until such time as somebody has actually taken the time to write a real article about them. If articles are written, then they can certainly be readded — removing them right now doesn't mean they can never be put back in the list. But there's no reason for them to be listed here until they actually have articles. Bearcat (talk) 14:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe you're asserting that the rule for inclusion of "notable people" on a city page is they have a matching wiki w/u. They cannot be included as notable until they have their own wiki page. If that's a wiki rule, then I'd like to see evidence for it. If that's your criterion for the windsor page, then it's up for debate. The Sarnia page, for example, has many clearly notable people who don't yet have wiki pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarnia,_Ontario#People_connected_with_Sarnia Mindme (talk) 15:15, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Frankly, I think the standard for including somebody in a city's list of Notable people should be somewhat higher than having a wiki article, however my personal standard is harder to define. As to the list of people in Sarnia, please note WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. I will have a look at that list later, unless somebody beats me to it. PKT 16:54, 24 October 2008 (UTC) (added) Oh, almost forgot: Remove T.Malcolm, S.Cygan & K.Mamer. I need to do some research on McNamara. (added) McNamara: Keep. In fact, I started an article about him. PKT 16:14, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

CFL in Windsor

If you actually think that Windsor will get a CFL team anytime soon, then you're just as dillusional as our mayor.

No, the CFL commish has not ruled out a Windsor CFL team, but it's pretty common knowledge that Halifax is the prime candidate. And as he states in this article[1], "We want to go into an area where our game still isn't represented and Ontario is well-represented."

But if keeping useless stuff like this in the article gets you off, go for it I suppose.

Nightlife

Does anyone think that a section on Windsor's nightlife would be relevant. I view the influx of Americans due to a lower drinking age is a very notable thing about the city but maybe I'm wrong. Opinions? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.60.74.185 (talk • contribs) .

Just put it in - if nobody likes it, it'll get blasted out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pagingmrherman (talk • contribs) .

Nightlife warrants a sentence or two in the History section perhaps, but isn't a big enough topic for a new section. A new section would only invite more WindsorSocial-type spam. --NormanEinstein 17:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe not an entire section, but certainly an expansion. As a resident of Columbus, OH, and a former resident of Brighton, MI, I can definitely concur with the sentiment that Windsor is a large draw for youths 16-25 from Lansing all the way to Cleveland. (It's a lot easier for a 16-year old to pass a fake ID that says they're 19 rather than 21.) This was especially true when the US dollar was much stronger against the CDN dollar. There's the casino, shopping, numerous bars/nightclubs, and "adult entertainment", all of which draw people to Windsor that would never go there otherwise.JD79 05:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Mention, but not an entire section... the nightlife is our main tourist attraction, but details should probably go on WikiTravel. Doze 17:50, 09 May 2006 (UTC)

This was removed due to being "unverifiable and inappropriate": Windsor has also been named 'Sin City', 'Tijuana North', amongst a certain number of names by enthusiasts and detractors alike, and there are many Americans who have now taken to saying 'What happens in Windsor, stays in Windsor.' This might partly be due to the 'Windsor Ballet', which is a nickname for the large amount of 'exotic dancing' bars. All four quoted terms are in common use (by American visitors and local night club staff and journalists). As for whether it's appropriate... NPOV? Anyway, I didn't write it, and whether it's worthy of inclusion is debatable, but it's all fact that might help characterize the nightlife of Windsor. Doze 12:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, in addition to the 'Windsor Ballet', there are also a disproportionate number of massage parlors and escort services that contribute to that part of Windsor's reputation. Doze 12:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

There's also a concern about verifiability. It's not sufficient for somebody from Windsor to say the terms are in common use — anybody can make claims of truth, so Wikipedia requires verifiable sources so we can be sure they're not making stuff up. Not that I think you are, but the verifiability requirement still applies. Wikipedia's goal isn't to present capital-T Truth; it's to summarize verifiable information that other sources have already published. I'm also not really sure why this would belong in an encyclopedia in the first place, but that's not so much an NPOV issue as an honest doubt as to why it would be encyclopedic at all. The Tijuana comparison, for example, is contextless, as even Tijuana's own article doesn't really explain that Tijuana has any kind of widespread "Sin City" reputation, so anybody who doesn't already know about that is left without any context for understanding why the comparison is there. And the blurb doesn't give me even the vaguest understanding of what "What happens in Windsor, stays in Windsor" means, plus the phrase gets less than 15 distinct Google hits. Though I'm willing to listen to other opinions. Bearcat 18:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm just pointing out that it could be considered useful information, since it is definitely a part of what makes up Windsor, and that should it be considered useful information, it probably wouldn't be difficult to verify (e.g. from local publications). The Tijuana comparison references the fact that both Tijuana and Windsor both border major U.S. cities and both boast a large entertainment sector (bars, strip clubs, etc.), which could be explained here. The Sin City (description) article describes the purpose of the nickname, and the "What happens in Windsor, stays in Windsor" references a popular statement (used in tourism ads) about Las Vegas, Nevada which is the "original" Sin City. It definitely needs to be rewritten, if it is to be included at all. Doze 23:30, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

"Don't Stop Believin'" by Journey

In the song Don't Stop Believin' by Journey, does the line "He's just a city boy / Born and raised in South Detroit" refer to Windsor? "South Detroit" redirects to Windsor. Eje211 18:05, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I presume it refers to living in the poor neighborhoods of Detroit. Rmhermen 21:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted that redirect, and have absolutely no idea why it was created in the first place. Bearcat 03:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The link was there because "South Detroit" was one of the names considered for Windsor. - Eugene Girard (talk) 03:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Nonsense. I was born, raised and educated in Windsor, and I learned about the history of Windsor and Essex County. PKT(alk) 14:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Journey's Jonathan Cain said in an interview "Oh man, I was so embarrassed when I found out there was no South Detroit." - Eugene Girard (talk) 03:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Low Crime Rate

You're kidding me, right?

Windsor has the highest crime rate and third highest unemployment rate in all of Canada. What's my source, I live in windsor and i can't stand it! Today marked our first-ever cop-killing by three teens... WIndsor's crime-rate is through the roof.

User:Raccoon Fox - Talk 03:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the sad racist pseudo "statistics" in regards to crime in Windsor. We must be ever vigilant against low self esteem "chip on shoulder" Canadians who try to boost Canada by denigrating the US. rasblue 06:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't condone insulting america, even if what htey say is true, just for our benefit. Canada's cities suffer from many of the same issues as most large american cities (Pollution, traffic, crime, unemployment, homelessness), and we can't and should not say "ha ha! we're better than you because we don't have <insert TYPICAL large city problem here>, and you do!", since most cities have them.

I don't try to bash my city or say it's a bad place, and contrary to how i feel, the city actually HAS been getting better in recent years (2003-now), despite crime rates increasing somewhat. Homelessness is down slightly, violent crime was down right up until our first-ever cop killing... our main problems are unemployment and petty theft/small crimes like robbery. our rape level is low, as is our murder rape. Windsor's main issues for crime are assaults, threats, and burglary/ Break-And-Enter (B&E).

Now, one might get confused when they say "but coonfox, you just said it has the highest crime rate!" True, we do per capita. We have more Break-And-Enters and convenience store robberies than any other city in canada when adjusted to population. Overall, though, Toronto, Ontario and Metro Detroit still beat us, since they have around 4 million people each (20x our population). And yes, only Rouyn-Noranda, Quebec/Val-d'Or, Quebec (#1) and Sudbury, Ontario (#2) beat windsor for unemployment. Times are tough for everyone right now.

That's just my $C0.02. User:Raccoon Fox - Talk 20:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually Sudbury also has a lower unemployment rate than Windsor. See http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca You could also mention how Windsor in the past was a magnet for the uneducated but healthy with its well paying factory job, and how we are paying if it now with very low higher education levels in the city. But that would be kicking the city when its already down. After all St.Clair College (trade school) gets more support from the community than the University of Windsor rasblue 04:52, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

If one actually looks up the crime rate using data from Statistics Canada, you'll find that Windsor is average to below average in most categories, when compared to other cities in Canada. This includes auto theft, break-and-enters, etc.

Data from Statistics Canada shows that Windsor is actually below the national average in terms of overall crime rate. It's also below average in numbers of auto thefts, break-and-enters, and homicides. Embee473 23:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The data I found for 2004 were:

• homicide rate: Windsor 1.2, national 2
• robbery: Windsor 70, national 86
• break and enter/break in: Windsor 922, national 860 - I think this too stats compare directly
• motor vehicle theft: Windsor 455, national 531

[2] Which puts Windsor lower in homicide, robbery, motor vehicle theft rates but probably higher in break-ins. Rmhermen 03:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I would have to disagree with you on that one those are reported crimes that have been placed in the statics there are many pity crimes that they didn't even bother to added like destruction of property, vandalism and graffiti almost everywhere block of the city has some sort of graffiti on buildings sidewalks and what I am seeing more common is seeing sighs and traffic sighs tagged with graffiti. So in a way it is high maybe not as high as Toronto or London but then again Windsor isn't very large. Prince Diamond 07:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the fallen police officer, this is not relevant information to this site. If you go to other city wikisites, do they have all the police officers in their cities that were killed listed? No. People are treating wikipedia as a current events bulletin when it shouldn't be. Embee473 04:58, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I have incorporated the fallen officer statistic into a relavant paragraph. rasblue 00:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

OTOH, please add more info on crime, both the good and the bad. DO NOT CHERRY-PICK STATS. Try to do one pro, one con, if you can't help being biased. And don't think Wikipedians will let blatant Anti-Americanism slide. Remember, anti-Americanism just makes you look petty with a huge chip on your shoulder. rasblue 00:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps just posting the actual crime statistics from Statistics Canada would suffice? Or, removing the crime section altogether (most cities don't even have one anyway). Embee473 16:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Climate Expansion

We need more info on climate. I added the Environment Canada link but if someone wants to extract info and put in on the article, feel free. Highlight the unusualness of Windsor's weather by world standards. After all, if you don't like it wait five minutes. rasblue 00:45, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

IP Only people removing paragraphs

If you plan on removing whole paragraphs from the article it is very bad form to do that using only your IP address. At least have the decency to sign in. rasblue 22:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Demographics

I would appreciate if someone stopped changeing the demographics page over and over again. The source i have have says Windsor on it, and it is from Statcan, so stop changeing the demographics, especially when I have actual numbers to back my info up. - Galati

Welcome to Wikipedia! You should know that any statistic that challenges left-wing assumptions will be challenged, whether with proven info or not. Make sure you watch your pages. rasblue 22:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Would you mind explaining exactly what left wing vs. right wing has to do with this matter? Bearcat 18:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

It's being changed because there is disagreement over whether to use the statistics for Windsor itself, or to use those of its metropolitan area. I believe we should use the former, because the Statcan link you posted includes demographics for LaSalle, Tecumseh, Lakeshore and Amherstburg, all of which have their own separate Wikipedia entries (not covered by this one) and are capable of showing their own demographics. As for rasblue's comment, I'm not sure what this has to do with 'left-wing assumptions' or politics in general, but both citations are perfectly valid and verifiable sources, it's a question of which is more appropriate for this entry. No need to troll. Doze 16:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

All demographic information should be listed by city population since this wikisite is for "Windsor, Ontario" not for "Metropolitan Windsor, Ontario". The Statscan numbers include the metropolitan area and thus shouldn't be used. Embee473 16:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Parks

Does anyone else think it's an issue to have upwards of 25 sections just on parks? It seems way overdone and tends to take away from the rest of the page. Embee473 16:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

We should make a new wikisite entitled Windsor Ontario Parks or something like that.

Agreed - a bullet list would suffice for most of the parks. Also, I'm removing the bit about speed limits for bike trails, as a start on shortening that section. PKT 14:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. A new article about Windsor, Ontario Parks should be created. This article should have just a few sentences about the parks with a link to the other more complete article. —--MJCdetroit 16:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I created this page: Parks in the city of Windsor, Ontario. This was basic copy and paste from this article. Please review it. If everyone agrees, then maybe we can cut and rework those portions in this article and link to the article on parks. Any thoughts? --MJCdetroit 16:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

That new page looks good. The lengthy bike trails article could be worked into it as well (sort of like a Parks and Recreation grouping). The main Windsor city page should be brief in nature. Embee473 19:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The Odette Sculpture Park is now caled the Windsor Sculpture Park — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.75.14 (talk) 18:40, 17 July 2013 (UTC) And it's sculptures are from artists all over the world, not just Essex County. Actually, most are from international locations — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.75.14 (talk) 18:45, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Seat of Essex county?

I don't think Windsor could be the county seat anymore, because;

• when Essex County was restructured Windsor was deemed a Separated Municipality,
• Essex County offices are in Essex.

Can anybody confirm this, one way or the other? PKT 20:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, this is correct. Windsor and Essex county are completely autonomous from each other. NDP Johnny 00:39, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

-- The administrative seat is in Essex but the county seat is Windsor (since the Essex County Courthouse is located in Windsor).

Demogrpahics 2

I dont appreciate the terminology African Canadian. For the most part Black Canadians are Caribbean, so to keep up to date and neutral, lets leave it black Canadian. Unsigned at 18:01, 17 September 2006 by 24.150.149.183

What does the source, i.e. StatsCanada, call them? I think that you would have to use whatever the source uses. —MJCdetroit 02:03, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Metro Detroit

The article on Detroit (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Detroit%2C_Michigan#4th_largest_urban_area.3F) makes claims that Windsor is part of Metro Detroit. While I do agree that some Canadians agree with this statement, I believe that the overwhelming number of Windsor residents do not. Also, some posts confuse a metropolitan area with an "urban agglomeration"- they are not necessarily the same thing!. The discussion so far seems to be monopolized by a few Americans that point to self-serving "marketing" materials. Any comments from Canadians? 207.6.233.239 22:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It is not a part of Metro Detroit. Windsor functions as its own metro area. It may be considered part of the agglomeration but definitely not part of the metro. Jc8025 02:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Internationally, it's probably true that Windsor is considered part of Metro Detroit, given that Detroit is an internationally famous city and Windsor isn't, but given that neither government actually has any jurisdiction over the other city (US over Windsor or Canada over Detroit), Windsor isn't officially considered part of Metro Detroit by either the American or Canadian governments. I can see both sides of the argument, but I'm not sure how best to resolve it. Bearcat 02:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The best way to resolve it is to take the huge paragraph of Metro Detroit out of the demogrpahics page. It is ridiculously long and unnecessary. Windsor is not part of metro Detroit. It is just some strange way Americans lump so many cities nearby to make it a huge megacity. For example, you have a metro area extending out of a state {e.g. Metro New York extending into southern Connecticut, and Northern New Jersey.

Windsor is culturally, geographically, and economically bound to Detroit and the surrounding area. The "strange way Americans" identify metropolitan areas is hardly unique to America. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Titorejre (talk • contribs) 20:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

This article seems biased and trys to make Windsor seem like some perfect little city?

This article seems to talk about only the good points about Windsor. Yeah, there are lot's of great things about Windsor, but the article doesn't mention much about the bad side of Windsor. Nothing much about Windsor being "Sin City". It doesn't talk about the tiny shotgun style homes or the decaying buildings infested with billboards. I think this article should mention these things. It seems like the "regulars" are trying to make Windsor seem superior to Detroit. Again … there are many great parts to Windsor, but there is a part of Windsor that I think people are trying to ignore. Articles on Wikipedia are not supposed to be biased.

Here are some articles about the Sin City thing. I really think this needs to be mentioned in the article.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2006-01-11-windsor-super-bowl_x.htm?csp=34

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NFL/Playoffs/2006/02/02/1422811-sun.html

I’m sure most people will disagree with me, especially the “regulars” who edit this article often to make sure Windsor has a PICTURE PERFECT article.

Decimal10 04:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think people are intentionally introducing bias. There is in fact a section under Attractions that talks about how "Windsor has also been the place where many Detroiters find what is forbidden in the United States." If you look at the discussion above, you'll see some further talk about the "Sin City" stuff and its encyclopaedic value and verifiability. Precisely to maintain the NPOV you're arguing for, the article doesn't present this in either a good or bad light (in fact, your calling it the "bad side" of Windsor is biased in itself), and a couple hype articles from Superbowl XL are blowing it somewhat out of proportion anyway. As far as tiny shotgun-style homes or decaying buildings, I'm not sure I follow, but I'm going to suggest that the homes and buildings in Windsor aren't particularly uncharacteristic of a city with its size and economy. Doze 06:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Is this a joke? Every city has decaying buildings and deteriorating neighbourhoods. It's pointless to mention such points since there is nothing unique about that. The Sin City thing is mentioned in the article...the only reason Windsor is considered a Sin City is because of its proximity to Detroit. All Canadian cities have venues that Americans might consider "sinful" but no other Canadian city has 5 million Americans at its doorstep making use of them. Jc8025 22:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Metro Detroit Part 2

Someone wrote: "Although the Windsor area is not officially enumerated as part of Metro Detroit by either the Canadian or American governments, unofficial population figures for Metro Detroit in marketing materials may include the Windsor area, and many people consider it part of the larger metropolitan area."

I have yet to find someone who agrees with this in Windsor. Personally having lived in Windsor for a short period of time, no one would consider themselves as part of the metro Detroit area. As a matter of fact, they scorn Detroit, for its filth, violence among other things. As wrote above, if Windsor, is not official enumerated as part of Metro Detroit by Canadian or American governments, mentioning it is pointless. What should Niagara Falls, Canada be a suburb of Buffalo too. - Galati

Niagara Falls, ON is not across from Buffalo. Fort Erie is. 24.150.251.130 21:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm in total agreement... I think most people in the US don't understand (or don't want to understand) the difference between a metro area and an urban agglomeration. You should see the drivel in the Detroit and Metro Detroit discussion pages about Windsor. If we took this US model and applied it to Canadian cities, Bellingham, Washington, and its environs would be a part of Metro Vancouver (In fact, Victoria would somehow be included as well)... Europe would consist a handful of megacities stretching from London to Rome. 66.183.217.31 01:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Windsor is culturally, geographically, and economically intertwined with Detroit and the surrounding area. Windsor is part of the Detroit metro area.

Metropolitan areas are officially defined by how many people work in the central city of the metro (in the case of this discussion, that would be Detroit). Since less than 3% of Windsorites work in Detroit, this falls well below the standard to be considered part of the metro area. Windsor has its own metropolitan area (LaSalle, Tecumseh, etc.) Jc8025 06:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! If you can find a reference for this definition we can put this silly debate to rest. Windsor is NOT culturally, geographically, and economically intertwined with Detroit. On another note, it would be interesting to see how many of the 3% of Windsorites that work on the Detroit side are actually Americans.

Where does this 3% number come from? Rmhermen 19:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Even the little Windsor airport thinks Windsor is part of the Detroit metro area. Oh also I think the detroit metro and visitors convention is being held in windsor? Just google the term and you will find zounds of reference to windsor being a part of the Detroit metro area. 3%? where does that stat come from and what standard are you speaking of? This is just foolish. Also, I think it would be interesting to see what percentage work for Detroit companies w/ offices in Windsor and vice versa) I can only assume there must be some american or detroit resentment manifesting itself here. Not surprising given that the area is dominated by metro Detroit business and culture. I have no agenda here, I'm not from the area, and I won't edit the page. But it is painfully obvious that windsor is very much attached to metro Detroit. http://www.windsorairport.net/win_det.cfm

Windsor and Detroit obviously have significant linkages with each other. Nobody is denying that. But from a legal and statistical standpoint, the definition of Metro Detroit does not and cannot officially include Windsor, because of the simple fact that there is no legal entity which has any cross-border jurisdiction over both cities. You can personally think of Windsor as being part of Metro Detroit all you want, but Wikipedia cannot say that it is. As I've stated before, a metropolitan area is not any urban agglomeration that any random person chooses to draw a box around; it's a specific legal, political and sociological concept which has its specific boundaries defined under law. Wikipedia cannot make its own decisions about how to reaggregate census data; as per WP:V, we must restrict ourselves to the census definitions that are actually defined under Canadian and/or American law. Neither government officially enumerates Windsor as being part of Metro Detroit, so we can't either. We can talk about their linkages, certainly — but we can't conflate those linkages with the specific political and sociological meaning of metropolitan area. Bearcat 23:24, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

No, Metro Detroit is not a legal entity. It is just a popular "agglomeration" of cities in an area (if agglomeration is a word that has meaning to you - I have never heard anyone say it.) Many people consider Detroit- Windsor linked and sometimes call it Metro Detroit - although I usually see that term restricted to American cities/counties. Neither the Detroit or Windsor articles detail cross-border employment - if we can source the numbers it would be a good addition to both articles. Rmhermen 00:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

My point is precisely that a metropolitan area is not defined solely by popular perception; it's a very precise legal and sociological concept. A metropolitan area is a precise and specific statistical and geographic thing, defined by a specific set of census data aggregated by the appropriate census data collection agency, not just by common understanding. It doesn't have to be a legal entity to be a thing that still has precise boundaries. You're right that popular language use doesn't really maintain that much of a distinction between a metropolitan area and an urban agglomeration (and read that article if you don't know what the term means, as it is a recognized sociological and geographical concept), but our job on Wikipedia is to be accurate, not to uncritically accept misunderstanding as truth just because said misunderstanding is a common one. Bearcat 00:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

However Metro Detroit is a popular construction - not a legal one. There is a statistical area with a different name used by the census - with no legal existance, and a number of different pan-jurisdictional areas with some specific legal responsibilities and again, different names. But Metro Detroit is a popular construction - but not imaginary or dismissable for that fact. Rmhermen 00:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Added pics, not much text

I added a bunch of pics since I got a new camera and it started to get warm this week, but not much text. If I had more time I would try to edit the article and find some somes sources, but I don't mind to others repositioning or using the pictures I added in a better way. This article does need some more text about Government especially.--Mikerussell 04:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Colbert Reference

Given that more people watch The Colbert Report on a daily basis than actually LIVE in windsor, I'd say it's important and relevant that it be in the article. Thanks to whoever added it back. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.1.51 (talk) 20:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

Too many images

Images always add to the article, but there are A LOT of images in this article, especially at the bottom of the page. Does anyone else think that we should remove some of the images? Hozombel

Yes, I agree, but since I contributed some, and would tend to delete the ones at the bottom which mostly are not mine, I sense it might be deemed to be an insult to others' efforts, or that I am a being a "picture hog". I noticed in a few articles this has happened, where I take a lot of images and try to trim it down, but the poorer images keep popping back up, like Comerica Park, so please edit out as you see fit, even if they are mine. I really- and everybody else- should start putting images on Wikimedia Commons first, since some articles are too crammed with pics.--Mikerussell 03:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Employment...or lack of

Perhaps we should mention windsor's unfortunate and embarassingly high unemployment rate? I think we're beaten for Highest Unemployment Rate in Canada by only Rouyn-Noranda, Quebec, and Sudbury, Ontario. Last time i heard (on CKLW), we were over 12%... RingtailedFox • Talk • Stalk 00:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Economy

It seems that a lot of recent changes to the "Economy" section are venturing in to editorialization. The author needs to bring in some sort of citation if he wants to blame trade policies or the strength of the dollar. I'm not necessarily arguing that these observations are incorrect, but they're sloppily written and unsourced.Farside268 03:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. They should probably just be reverted, as one of the edits consisted of a racial slur against the mayor. I RV'd that one, but I'm not able to do the other ones right now. I removed a bunch of similar edits at Tilbury, Ontario including a newspaper story pasted into the article verbatim. Blotto adrift 19:24, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Ambassador Bridge

The section on the bridge immediately mentions the current issues about traffic. While it's okay to mention that, there should be a little more of an introduction to the bridge first - mention its size, age, etc. 68.40.65.164 (talk) 02:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

AKO Fraternity

The AKO Fraternity is an important part of the heritage of the City of Windsor. Is there someway it could be better represented in this article? It has its own article right now, but it keeps getting the odd PROD and AfD probably because it is not getting taken care of -- mostly because I don't think people know the article exists. The article itself needs a clean up and sources... maybe even more information. Please help! DMighton (talk) 17:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE ADD WINDSOR"S POPULATION???????????????? I find that this page is hard to understand- too fragmented, but I can't explain it. Anyone else agree? Tangmeisterjr (talk) 20:17, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Its population appears both in the infobox and in the Demographics section, which also includes a bit of analysis. PKT 14:29, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Notable Software Companies?

From the w/u:

Windsor is also home to prominent software companies, such as Netmon, ROBOdrs, System 3 POS, and VisionWorks Solutions. None of these software companies appear to meet wiki's criteria for a notable company. I would suggest removing this sentence. Mindme (talk) 18:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, and the pharmaceutical companies that were listed are also 'iffy'. I removed them all, and replaced with a sentence that refers to industrial diversification in general. PKT 13:08, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

American?

Was Windsor ever in America? 167.1.176.4 (talk) 08:41, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

No. The closest the area came to being overtaken was probably the Battle of Windsor. PKT(alk) 14:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

No but Americans controlled it in 1813-14 during the war of 1812. (The battle of Windsor during the Upper Canada Rebellion did not involve American soldiers - but Canadian and American civilians) Rmhermen (talk) 23:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

CKLW

There is a gratuitous and vague ("some people say") smear against Cancon, putting it up as the reason that no-one cares about CKLW anymore. This is just not true. Take a listen -- pop music on the AM dial died in the 1970s and 1980s on both sides of the border, all across the continent. MOVE TO STRIKE! --74.13.176.63 (talk) 21:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

"Bus depot": ambiguous

The Transportation section under Infrastructure speaks of the newly constructed "Bus depot" shared between Transit Windsor and Greyhound lines. To a non-native english speaker like myself, it is unclear whether this is indeed a bus terminal or a bus garage. I think it would be worthwhile to clarify this. thanks! -205.205.242.41 (talk) 22:59, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

The CUPE strike

As a Windsorite myself, I find it interesting that there has been no mention of that stupid CUPE strike that has left trash on our streets and caused mass chaos all summer long so far! Yeah, heck with how long its been going I think it deserves its own article, but still, we should think about adding that. ViperSnake151  Talk  00:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It hasn't caused Chaos, just a lot of garbage.Bllasae (talk) 16:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Windsor Skyline Picture

I think someone should consider changing the main Windsor skyline picture. I have found a great picture from the City of Windsor's website: http://www.citywindsor.ca/DisplayAttach.asp?AttachID=13694 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex Marar (talk • contribs) 00:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't disagree, but Wikipedia's rules about image licensing make your suggestion a bit difficult, and the rules about licensing make my head hurt. PKT(alk) 00:40, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Ethnic Origin

It states that 28 % are Canadian. Now, does this mean that 28% of the city's population is Indian (Native Canadian)? Norum 03:39, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

That number comes from data obtained from Statistics Canada, and I don't see where they defined the terminology. It probably includes indigenous people as well as anybody else whose family have lived in Canada for several generations. The proportion of the population that's indigenous is not likely to be as high as 28%. PKT(alk) 15:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Size of the city prior to 1935

Does anyone happen to know the city limits of Windsor prior to it annexations of surrounding towns in 1935? Are there any old maps showing the city limits prior to the annexations? Anyone know the size is square kilometers of the old city? --Criticalthinker (talk) 10:51, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

File:UndergroundRailroadmonumentWindsor.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Race?

I'm having trouble believing that this article would actually insinuate that Windsor has a much lower crime rate because it only has a few thousand blacks... But, there it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.207.114.89 (talk) 17:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

The comment has been subsequently removed by a much more responsible editor. PKT(alk) 11:30, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I added the pronunciation /ˈwɪnzər/ to the first sentence of this article and it was removed under the reasoning that this is not the correct pronunciation. As this is the same pronunciation given on the Windsor page here on Wikipedia and it can be verified here (aside from the fact that I have lived in the region my entire life), I am unsure as to why it was removed. Ithacanewyork (talk) 23:44, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I think the person who removed it is in error. I reinstated the pronunciation. PKT(alk) 01:40, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Windsor, Ontario not Windsor palace is pronounced with a d, Win-dzer/Win-dzor, has been that way as far back as I can remember. Even French local names have migrated away from the traditional pronunciations; Ouelette is now being pronounced - O-let instead of the correct Wa-let, Gilles: Gia-elz or Gil-lees instead of Jil, Pierre: Pe-ree instead of Pi-air... Even Jim Creighton pronounces them this "new fangled" way.--NotWillyWonka (talk) 13:19, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

No Windsorite I know or ever heard makes the "d" audible, but if you want to list that as an alternate pronunciation, I could accept it. PKT(alk) 13:39, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I usually hear the 'd' pronounced too, from people on both sides of the Detroit River. --Local hero ^talk 13:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

In this clip I hear "University of Wind ser". In this [one] I hear "win zer". Rmhermen (talk) 23:06, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree. While I almost never hear a very strong "d" sound, except from people not from here, there is often a softer "d". But just as often, no "d".24.57.193.111 (talk) 08:30, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Windsor's seal & logo

The article infobox shows Windsor's flag and coat of arms.

But unlike the Toronto page, it doesn't show the city's logo

And unlike the Detroit page, it doesn't show the city's seal, which can be seen on the flag, and used to be seen on yellow/orange municipal vehicles and blue-and-white police cars (before Google). The seal is what I came here to learn about. Windsor's own website doesn't show it or talk about it. The seal has the name of the city, a date, a gear, some wheat, a spade (as if they knew gambling was coming), a rose, and a W ... and ... two thumbs up at the bottom? Anyway, I think it's great. I just want to know more about it. Contradicting this Wikipedia article, this page at CRW flags says that this city seal was replaced in 1992 with a corporate seal (which I've never seen, unless it's the same seal). (EDIT: the seal I'm seeking information about was apparently designed as a crest in 1970, according to this Tumblr post).

In any case, it seems like the infobox and body text should make some reference to these things, and describe their significance or history in some way. 24.57.193.111 (talk) 09:13, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Offensive edit summaries aside...

Beyond the blocked editor responsible for the offensive edit summaries, we have two more editors, Linguist111 and MarnetteD that have violated WP:3RR and could also be blocked. I've reviewed the blocked editor's contribution and by no means is it vandalism, so it is not subject to the vandalism-related 3RR exemption. Is there a different 3RR exemption clause I'm not seeing that rationalizes these actions? Hwy43 (talk) 01:57, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

You will want to read up on 3rr as I have not violated it. Also this post has nothing to do with improving the article so you are in violation of talk page guidelines. MarnetteD|Talk 02:03, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm quite familiar with 3RR and read it in its entirety as a refresher before starting this thread. And yet reading it again just now, I don't see how these actions were not violations. I posted this here out of respect rather than starting a thread at the 3RR noticeboard. If you would prefer I post there I can oblige. Hwy43 (talk) 02:32, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

As for the appropriateness of posting on this article's talk page, 3RR states "If you are claiming an exemption, make sure there is a clearly visible edit summary or separate section of the talk page that explains the exemption" (emphasis added). Hwy43 (talk) 02:42, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

The article content I reverted was not offensive, but the edit summaries the blocked editor wrote were very offensive. *Really* offensive, and way off base, which is why the block was applied, AFAIK. PKT(alk) 02:44, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi PKT. You only reverted once. Agreed on the edit summaries. They were disgusting, and the editor deserves the block for those actions. Regardless, we can't let the emotions triggered by them rationalize contravention of our own rules. I'm trying to understand why disgusting edit summaries attached to non-offensive, non-vandal contributions exempts competent editors from observing the rules set out at 3RR. If there is something I'm truly missing at 3RR, then I hope I get that explanation. Hwy43 (talk) 02:54, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I didn't actually violate 3RR—I only reverted three times, but I understand that doing what I did may not have been the best thing to do. For future reference, what should I do if I find other users engaged in an edit war in which I am initially uninvolved, particularly in situations like this where one editor's changes are being reverted by multiple other editors? Do I revert to the pre-war version as a courtesy, or do I just leave it? Thanks. Linguist ^Moi? Moi. 15:50, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Tornadoes of 2009 and 2016

Do these warrant mention in an encyclopedia? Tornadoes in this region aren't particularly rare. 2602:306:CFEA:170:B53E:DFE7:BFE3:F4B1 (talk) 00:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Hospital

An editor has been adding extensive details about a hospital in Windsor. I trimmed several paragraphs, but the editor is intent on adding this to the article. WP:CCSG suggests that infrastructure include "transportation, utilities, health care, amenities"; it does not suggest writing long passages about any of them. A separate article may be needed, but this seems like WP:NOTNEWS. The input of others would be appreciated. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:09, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree completely that this content violates WP:NOTNEWS. If the hospital has an article, it may be appropriate content there. John from Idegon (talk) 18:25, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to a short, properly sourced mention of the proposal for a new hospital, but keep in mind we don't even know if this project will actually happen since it is not yet funded. As it is much of the material does not seem neutral and reads like part of a negative PR campaign. Wikipedia is not here to argue the case for the anti-hospital side (not suggesting that the editor who added the material intended to do that). The cited sources include opinion pieces, a letter to the editor, and the website of the decidedly non-neutral Citizens for an Accountable Megahospital Planning Process (CAMPP). There is definitely some spin doctoring on that site, for example the suggestion that the Windsor site must be too big given that the new Montreal super hospital is using less space (ignoring the fact that this would be Windsor's only hospital while Montreal has multiple hospitals). Meters (talk) 19:14, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

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