Talk:Whokill

Album title spelling

So do we just go ahead and change article names without any discussion? The Garbus albums are routinely referred to in the media by their unique spelling - just have a look at all the references. The person who changed all these on a whim needs to explain how they settled on their favorite. And do so without just pointing at WP:COMMONTITLE.

I agree. I am changing the title back to w h o k i l l, because that is the way it is predominantly spelled/stylized by outside sources. Ironically, WP:TITLEFORMAT—which Soetermans cited as the reason to change the title to Who Kill—says "Article titles follow standard English text formatting in the case of trademarks, unless the trademarked spelling is demonstrably the most common usage in sources independent of the owner of the trademark. Since 2/3 of the independent cited references—

http://www.pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/15321-w-h-o-k-i-l-l/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/pqwx

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/139735-tune-yards-w-h-o-k-i-l-l/

http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/review/tune-yards-w-h-o-k-i-l-l/2484

http://www.spin.com/reviews/tune-yards-w-h-o-k-i-l-l-4ad

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/42908/tUnE-yArDs-w-h-o-k-i-l-l/

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2011/05/02/110502crmu_music_frerejones

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2011/

http://stereogum.com/891311/uncuts-top-50-albums-of-2011/list/

http://pitchfork.com/features/staff-lists/8727-the-top-50-albums-of-2011/5/

http://stereogum.com/894362/mojos-top-50-albums-of-2011/list/

http://www.npr.org/2011/04/17/135443035/tune-yards-expanding-and-grabbing-attention

—stylize it as w h o k i l l, and none of the other articles use another stylization with any consistency, that clearly meets the requirement that "the trademarked spelling is demonstrably the most common usage in sources independent of the owner of the trademark."

--TuesdayMush (talk) 09:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:MOSCAPS, WP:COMMONTITLE. 'nough said. --Soetermans. T / C 20:33, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Just because hipster music outlets use wspacehspaceospacekspaceispacelspacel instead of who kill doesn't mean Wikipedia, as an encyclopedia which still tries to be encyclopedic, should as well. We're not talking iPod, eBay or PlayStation here, it is w h o k i l l and tUne-YArdS or whatever way she prefers. --Soetermans. T / C 20:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

And sorry for the immediate revert, I didn't mean to do that. I still go by consensus, but until more is said about this I'm saying it should be changed. --Soetermans. T / C 20:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Here, per WP:MOSTM: When deciding how to format a trademark, editors should choose among styles already in use (not invent new ones) and choose the style that most closely resembles standard English, regardless of the preference of the trademark owner. --Soetermans. T / C 20:52, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

While I can agree with you about your move of Tune-Yards, since most sources style the band as such, here I have to disagree. I've moved it back to its prior title per WP:BRD. Please do not move it again without consensus. In regards to your arguments, WP:COMMONTITLE actually works against you, since the majority of sources style it as "w h o k i l l." elektrikSHOOS (talk) 22:07, 23 January 2012 (UTC) In addition, your decision to move it to "Who kill" is completely unsubstantiated, since the remaining sources which don't keep it as "w h o k i l l" style it as one word, "Whokill". elektrikSHOOS (talk) 22:08, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

The album's title is deliberately constructed as "w h o k i l l". The non-standard typography is an intrinsic element of its design, as I noted in this earlier contribution. There is no compelling reason to reformat it, and I think it should stay as is. SteveStrummer (talk) 00:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah sorry about the revert. The bulk of my edits are minor, with the occational vandalism or good faith revert.

The thing is that Wikipedia doesn't go for intrinsic elements of design. We try to make this an encyclopedia, after all. And since I can only assume the common way to pronounce the title would be 'who kill' I prefer to change it. I'm fine with 'whokill' also.

I feel that the guidelines are clear: WP:NCM ("Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art, though a redirect may be appropriate (for example, KoЯn redirects to Korn)" and WP:MOSTM ("Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, regardless of the preference of trademark owners"). Just because some (or maybe most) websites use the style, doesn't mean we should either.

WP:COMMONTITLE was a mix up, but above it is the section on WP:CRITERIA, and three of its bullet entries state "Recognizability – Is the candidate title a recognizable name (...), to someone familiar with the subject area?" Is 'whokill' or 'who kill' more recognizable than w h o k i l l? I think so. "Naturalness – What title(s) are readers most likely to look for to find the article? Which title(s) will editors most naturally use to link from other articles? Such titles usually convey what the subject is actually called in English." This might be stretch, but when do we "call" something? The way we write it, or the way we think of it when we write it? I'm not sure about what readers will look up though. A third, "Consistency – Does the proposed title follow the same pattern as those of similar articles? (...)" Are similar articles albums? In that case, yeah, we shouldn't just look at the album art, but ask ourselves 'how do we jot this down?' --Soetermans. T / C 07:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll agree with you on Whokill, but this shouldn't be moved without consensus given the above. I'm going to start a new section below. elektrikSHOOS (talk) 20:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad you see my point, thanks. I'm curious to see how this turns out. --Soetermans. T / C 21:20, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

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W h o k i l l → Whokill – Per WP:NCM, WP:MOSTM. The majority of sources style it as one word, "whokill." elektrikSHOOS (talk) 20:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

• Support per MOS:TM. The spaces are simply decorative. Jenks24 (talk) 05:13, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.