Talk:White rhinoceros

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White Rhino Size

Why is there so little information about these animals size and weight? Because they havent got enough money to funf these experiments. Thw weight sounds bullshit. On average, this rhino weighs 2.2 tons. So, the theoretically maximum weight should be around 4 tons. 4.5 tons is completely unimaginable. Must be a hoax.

Anyway, white rhino is larger than hippo for sure. The hippo weight: 4500kg, is really an exaggeration.

Never seen more than 3,600 kg in scientific literature; some have had it as low as 2,300 kg, but this appears to be the average. Modern literature puts the hippo's maximum between 2,500–3,200 kg (some zoological journal gave 2,664 kg as the recorded maximum), with an average of 1,600 kg for males. 4,500 kg for either species is gross exaggeration – the Asian Elephant has a maximum of 5,400 kg in the wild and 6,198 kg in captivity. --Anshelm '77 (talk) 00:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I find the comment, 'largest land MAMMAL after the elephants' (my emphasis) to be quite underwhelming. What other land animal would be bigger? Lukebulger (talk) 11:03, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

As is common with large animals, the dimensions of the rhinos are often exaggerated. I think Indian rhino is bigger than white rhino. The weight will not exceed 2500kg for any species of rhino. An Asian elephant with 2.8m (~9-10ft) height and 6m (~20ft) length usually weighs around 5 tonnes. Then how can an animal with height < 2m and length <=4m weigh 4.5tonnes? Anoop Manakkalath (talk) 05:23, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Some crocs weigth over 1000kg and possible 2000kg and they are all under 1m, a very large hippo and rhino can weigth up to 4.5 tonnes for sure — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.48.210.235 (talk) 16:01, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Additional Reference

There is a LOT of information on the northern white rhino in a journal article by Avant (2004) which I used in order to add a history section to the Garamba National Park Wikipedia article. The full reference is available on the Garamba page. Includes a great deal of information on the politics of the effort to save the rhinos, as well as detailed information on poaching in Garamba National Park. Definitely worth some additional gleaning, which I do not have time to do now. N2e 20:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Megafauna

"[The White Rhino] is one of the few megafaunal species left."

According to Megafauna, the common classification includes all animals heavier than a labrador (including humans). I don't see how this sentence can be true, unless there are rhinos which aren't megafauna. Is there a source?

--Carbon Rodney 08:39, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge

I'd like to propose merging the articles Southern White Rhinoceros and Northern White Rhinoceros into the article White Rhinoceros. My reason is pretty straightforward—if we keep these as three separate articles there will be tremendous overlap in their content. The Northern and Southern White rhinoceroses are subspecies of the White Rhinoceros, as such, the majority of information about one applies to the other. Eventually, it would be great to get White Rhinoceros to featured article status, and merging this information would be a good start. I want to be very clear: my goal with this proposal is to remove absolutely no information whatsoever. The complete contents of each subspecies article will be included at White Rhinoceros. My goal is only to reduce redundant content. As best I can tell, all Featured Articles about animals are written at the species level, with subsections on subspecies. This seems to me like a good standard to pursue. --JayHenry 17:08, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support merge...sort of. I'm sure much material is identical and for the most part species are taken as a fairly index point to have a comprehensive article. You could start by just restructuring and importing material anyway without officially merging.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

• Support again sort of, the northern white rhino and southern white rhino articles should be merged because diet, behavior, ecology, ect. will all overlap. Conservation of the Northern White Rhino however is a significant issue and deserves to be maintained as a separate article. SeanBBSc 04:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC) Sean

  I would like to deal with conservation of the northern white rhino, in great detail, in this article. Because the northern white is so rare the vast majority of science on the subspecies is conservation related anyways and that can all be included here. --JayHenry 04:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Two subspecies of White Rhino should be merged into one article. As most people dont even know their is two sub species. They are closely related so alot is the smae but it would also make comparison of differences easier--Big5Hunter 11:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

merge update

I went ahead and merged Southern White Rhinoceros. As the type subspecies it'd really be fully redundant. I think Sean makes an interesting point about conservation of Northern Whites. I'm willing to leave that for now as I haven't done the research yet to say how much there is. Been focusing on Javan Rhinoceros for now... --JayHenry 04:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Since they have been merged black and white rhino pages should be deleted as they are redundant.--203.192.91.4 (talk) 09:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Northern White Rhino

While Wikipedians may decide to merge the Northern and Southern White Rhino articles into a single page, it is critical to note that there are distinct conservation efforts directed towards both. It is quite misleading to the casual observer to see that the northern white rhino is not clearly listed as critically endangered in the right-hand panel. By all accounts, there are no more than 20 alive! I searched for "Northern White Rhino" after reading "Last Chance to See" by Douglas Adams, and was surprised to learn that there was not a distinct page dedicated to this animal. Due to the extremity of the situation I believe the northern white rhino deserves a substantially clear amount of explanation. Furthermore, the only reference on wikipedia quoting the number of northern white rhinos currently alive is a BBC webpage. It is very likely that page contains outdated information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian7208 (talk • contribs) 08:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

redundant information

I added a "repetition" template at the top of the "northern white rhino" section because a lot of the same information is stated in slightly different ways in each sub-section. The stand-alone northern white rhino article is more organized and, in my opinion, should be kept, while most of the specifics about the remaining northern whites, and conservation efforts should be removed from this article, and replaced with a quick mention and a link to the stand-alone page on the subjects. The northern white should probably have a section approximately the size of the southern white section. Josephmarty (talk) 20:10, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction

I added the contradiction-tag to the "In Zoos" section because it contradicts what is written in the Northern White Rhinoceros article. According to this article, the population in San Diego IS breeding and the male there is NOT the only one in existence. In addition, I removed info about Southern White Rinos in captivity; considering there are a total of more than 750, I don't see why the ones mentioned are notable. Preslav (talk) 15:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Another Contradiction

As of August 14, 2010, both the White Rhinoceros and the Indian Rhinoceros are listed as being the largest rhinoceros on their respective pages. Thegoldenconciseencyclopediaofmammals (talk) 20:29, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

no disambiguation page?

This isn't what most people mean when they say white rhino —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.94.93 (talk) 17:27, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

What else could be called that? Richard New Forest (talk) 18:45, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

"White rhino" is also a type of marijuana. I think our anonymous commenter is just joking around. --JayHenry (talk) 22:19, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Near Threatened?

Why exactly is their status 'near threatened' when they are almost extinct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.56.62.234 (talk) 20:18, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Exactly there are only five left in the world currently after one just died today. Is that not close enough to permanent extinction for you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:3:2D00:635:45A6:D31F:398D:9100 (talk) 18:00, 15 December 2014 (UTC) update: now there is just one left which is 43 years old and named sudan.84.212.111.156 (talk) 08:14, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

The conservation assessment is about the species as a whole. Only the northern subspecies is near exctinct; the southern spp. has 20k-ish individuals.--Elmidae (talk · contribs) 09:27, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Proposed Additions

My group found several sections of info that appeared to be missing or otherwise lacking in the current page. Citations are included after each section, but have not been formatted as in-text citations as of yet.

I've removed protection from the article (to allow editing from IPs and new accounts). Materialscientist (talk) 04:20, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Materialscientist, that helped a lot. I finished my additions, but am having trouble getting the citations to work properly. I did cite them manually, but the format needs to be cleaned up a little. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 03E ext2014 (talk • contribs) 05:23, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Historical Hunting

Rhino poaching has been occurring for well over four centuries, as hunters have driven the Indian rhinoceros to near-extinction ever since the colonial era. Millions of years before this, however, there were species of rhinoceros that grew up to twenty feet long. These exotic creatures were believed to become extinct due to human cause, citing the enormous impact people can have on the natural world. The 19th-century concept of hunting for sport nearly eradicated the white rhino from the planet, until anti-poaching laws in India and Nepal helped the species recover to a considerable extent. “Operation Rhino,” initiated in 1961, was a program designed to save the rhino from extinction. Remaining members of the species were moved to reserves in South Africa, but in 1970 it was revealed that the rhinoceros population has decreased by about 90% since historic times.

"Rhino Poaching." Ian Somerhalder Foundation. N.p., n.d. Web. 22 Oct. 2014. <http://www.isfoundation.com/news/creatures/rhino-poaching#sthash.atzUisS8.dpuf>.

Auto writes. If these gigantic rhinos - "up to twenty feet long" - lived 'million of years before this [the colonial era]', as the quoted isfoundation and Auto agree, their extinction may not be related to the emergence of the genus Homo as a big game hunter, which appears likely to have been in the last 200,000 to 150,000 - or perhaps fewer - years ago. A guess at the identity of "species of rhinoceros that grew up to twenty feet long" is the Paraceratherium/Baluchitherium/Indricotherium complex from - probably inter alia - the Siwalik Hills in Pakistan. Also, I am a little unpersuaded of the benefits of laws in India and Nepal - worthy and supported although they are - on poaching of an African animal. Auto 86.173.162.7 (talk) 19:23, 7 March 2015 (UTC) 1924 Z - 07 March 2015.

Poaching

Historically the major factor in the decline of white rhinos was uncontrolled hunting in the colonial era, but now poaching for their horn is the primary threat. The white rhino is particularly vulnerable to hunting, because it is a large and relatively unaggressive animal and generally occurs in herds.

Despite the lack of scientific evidence, the rhino horn is highly prized in traditional Asian medicine, where it is ground into a fine powder or manufactured into tablets to be used as a treatment for a variety of illnesses such as nosebleeds, strokes, convulsions, and fevers. Due to this demand, several highly organized and very profitable international poaching syndicates came into being and would carry out their poaching missions with advanced technologies ranging from night vision scopes, silenced weapons, darting equipment and even helicopters. The ongoing civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo and incursions by poachers primarily coming from Sudan have further disrupted efforts to protect the few remaining northern rhino.

"African rhino poaching crisis." WWF - World Wide Fund For Nature. N.p., n.d. Web. 22 Oct. 2014. <http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/endangered_species/rhinoceros/african_rhinos/poaching_crisis_african_rhinos/>.

In 2013, poaching rates for white rhinos nearly doubled from the previous year. As a result, the white rhino has now received Near Threatened status as its total population tops out at 20,000 members. Hunting of the animal has gone virtually unchecked in most of Africa, and the non-violent nature of the rhinoceros makes it susceptible to poaching. Mozambique, one of the four main countries the white rhino occupies, is used by poachers as a passageway to South Africa, which holds a fairly large number of white rhinos. Here, rhinos are regularly killed and their horns are smuggled out of the country. As of 2014, Mozambique labels white rhino poaching as a misdemeanor.

Dell’Amore, Christine. “1,000+ Rhinos Poached in 2013:Highest in Modern History.” National Geographic. 17 Jan. 2014. Web. 22 October. 2014.

"White rhinoceros." WWF - World Wide Fund For Nature. N.p., n.d. Web. 22 Oct. 2014. <http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/endangered_species/rhinoceros/african_rhinos/white_rhinoceros/>.

Lewis, Matthew. “Overview.” WWF. n.d. Web. 22 October. 2014

Modern Conservation Tactics

The Northern White Rhino is critically endangered to the point that there are only three of these rhinos remaining in the world. To keep peace, several conservation tactics have been taken to prevent this species from disappearing from the earth. Perhaps the most notable type of conservation these Rhinos have received is having moved to Kenya’s Ol Pejeta Conservancy from Dvur Kralove Zoo in Czech Republic on December 20, 2009 where they have been under constant watch every day, and have been given favorable climate and diet, both of which they have adapted to well, in order to boost their chances of reproducing.

In order to save the Northern White Rhino from extinction, Ol Pejeta Conservancy announced that they will introduce a fertile Southern White Rhino from Lewa Wildlife Conservancy, In February of 2014. Here they have this Rhino in an enclosure with both female Northern White Rhinos in hopes to cross-breed the species. Having the male rhino with two female rhinos will increase competition for the female rhinos and in theory should result in more mating experiences. Till now Ol Pejeta Conservancy hasn’t announced any news of the rhino mating.

"Male Southern White Rhino Introduced in Endangered Species Boma." Ol Pejeta Conservancy. N.p., n.d. Web. 22 Oct. 2014. <http://www.olpejetaconservancy.org/about/news/male-southern-white-rhino-introduced-endangered-species-boma>.

"Northern White Rhinos." Ol Pejeta Conservancy. N.p., n.d. Web. 22 Oct. 2014. <http://www.olpejetaconservancy.org/wildlife_conservation/northern-white-rhinos>.

"White rhinoceros." WWF - World Wide Fund For Nature. N.p., n.d. Web. 22 Oct. 2014. <http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/endangered_species/rhinoceros/african_rhinos/white_rhinoceros/>.

Direct addition to Behavior and ecology

The white Rhinoceros is thought to have changed the structure and ecology of the savanna’s grasslands. Comparatively based on studies of the African elephant, scientist believe the white Rhino is a driving factor in the ecosystem it resides. The destruction of the megaherbivore could have serious cascading effects on the ecosystem and harm other animals.

Cromsigt JPGM, Te Beest M (2014) Restoration of a megaherbivore—landscape-level impacts of white rhinoceros in Kruger National Park, South Africa. J Ecol. doi:10.1111/1365-2745.12218

Problems with the statements regarding northern whites remaining

At the end of the opening paragraph, we have "with four confirmed individuals left, with only four still able to reproduce (Including those in captivity)." I believe the first number should be 5. (today is December 15th 2014) Either way, the sentence is structured in a way where the two numbers should be different.

The same happens in the Northern section: "there are currently only three rhinos of this subspecies left in captivity and three have been returned to a conservancy in Kenya." then Later in that paragraph: "The two other rhinos presently live at the San Diego Zoo's Safari Park in California. One of the last two males capable of natural mating died on October 18, 2014.

This is all very confusing as to how many are actually left. Cultist O (talk) 18:24, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

It looks like this has been fixed now, thanks! Cultist O (talk) 15:59, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Adding other threats and conservation efforts

Along with the major threat of poaching, I believe this article could benefit from the addition of information on other threats to the different rhino subspecies as well as current conservation efforts to reverse those threats. Due to the size and weight of a rhino's head, they are unable to lift there heads very far off the ground in order to eat taller grasses. Instead, the main staple of their diet are short grasses. The threat of tall invasive grass species that are unpalatable by rhinos are a great threat to their survival. The rhino being a mega-herbivore (an herbivore weighing over 1000kg) changes the landscape in such a significant way that without their influence there will be even more dire repercussions to the grass lands. Additionally the Ziwa Rhino Sanctuary/ Rhino Fund located in Uganda is another organization working on a breeding program that could perhaps be added to the section Modern Conservation Tactics to give additional background and info. Karmadog23 (talk) 06:21, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

References

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White rhino biggest individual 4530kg, not 3600kg

http://www.adoptananimal.co.uk/white-rhino-fact-file/ https://books.google.pt/books?id=2GZm2R9CxocC&pg=PA63&dq=white+rhino+4500kg&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCsbrEhYDZAhWMVhQKHdPgA48Q6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=white%20rhino%204500kg&f=false http://bisbeesconservationfund.org/Conservation/SaveTheRhino/RhinoGeneralInfo_White.aspx I suggest to change the wrong maximum weigth of the white rhino from 3600kg to 4500kg or 4530kg. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.48.210.235 (talk) 15:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

The world's last male northern white rhino is dead. Now what?

CNN says - [1]. Read. 46.70.10.17 (talk) 18:00, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The near-extinction of this sub-species of white rhino is noted in the article. It's important to understand that the white rhino as a species is not extinct, nor anywhere near it, as there are thousands of animals of the other sub species (the southern white rhinoceros) alive. Neiltonks (talk) 10:31, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

This can't be "near threatened"

How come this is possible? Only two female white rhinos are left in the world in the last male one died a few months ago. It's more then endangered. This info is outdated. The info from iucn is outdated.it says last assessed on 2011 and POPULATION INCREASING?? MRC rules (talk) 11:09, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Please see the topic right above your post. I hope you can understand it. WikiHannibal (talk) 11:46, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Mohoohoo and other names

There were other popular names used in South Africa, perhaps worth mentioning.

• Mohoohoo: Paper, Times, Names used by andrew smith (pg 29)
• Mohohu: ZA dictionary

I just reverted this addition, as not being representative of "common usage" (I don't see the sources as indicating otherwise; and for what it's worth I have never encountered it in five years of wildlife management research in SA). This is just the name in a specific local language. I suppose one could add a paragraph on these - the article is certainly developed enough to support it - but one would have to avoid the implication that a random person in SA would have used this or similar terms. They wouldn't, unless speaking that particular language. --Elmidae (talk · contribs)

Elephant species

Manwë986, I can't fathom what you intended to do with that edit. You removed the statement that the white rhino is heavier than the forest elephant. Regardless of whether that is the case or not, your provided source (which is at [2] BTW, not the truncated thing you pasted in the summary) says nothing whatsoever about this subject. Or maybe you misunderstood the sentence? It does not state that there are only two species of elephant, merely that the comparison only holds for two of the three. Still, your source has no bearing on that. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 20:50, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Elmidae, I believe there are three species of elephants, if you do remember. African bush elephant, Asian elephant and African forest elephant. The source I provided in the summary stated about the difference between the bush and forest elephants. Although the forest elephant is smaller than the bush elephant, it's still heavier than the white rhino. Please look at that source for its weight. The words I described in summary (as well as the source) about the changes I made to the white rhino page. And there's no reason for me to put that source in the white rhino's page, as it only describe the comparison between the two African elephants.

If that source wasn't enough, here's another one: https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=4ZvTAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=5+tonnes+Loxodonta+cyclotis&source=bl&ots=mnaytKUhnV&sig=ACfU3U2HCnSqyYX1Tk2QsBuGkqTICgK-0A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiasJCi25_qAhVWT30KHavqCCEQ6AEwGXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=5%20tonnes%20Loxodonta%20cyclotis&f=false. I also change the image to the suitable one too. --Manwë986 (talk) 14:35, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Boy, this entire "keep your paws off the revert button until the discussion is finished" thing really comes hard to you, doesn't it. What do we have to do, stencil BRD onto your forehead in nice big block letters? Right next to "don't remove scientific papers in favour of convenient pop-sci sources". The source you removed (Larramedi 2015) does a much more through job of estimating mean mass for all the elphant species than what you present, and it comes out as 2000 kg for the average cyclotis male - which is less than the 2300 kg for the average white rhino male. - But you know what? I really lack the patience to get drawn again into this obsession about which animal is largest, heaviest or most totally awesome. I'll leave this for someone else to bang their head against. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:23, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

This is some insult ("stencil BRD onto your forehead in nice big block letters", "bang their heads against"). Please leave this alone since you're not an admin.--Manwë986 (talk) 17:33, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

...that took 2.5 months to percolate to the surface of your tortured consciousness? --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 17:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't usually care what the replies were. And I don't care how long it takes. --Manwë986 (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2021

White Rhinos have gone extinct. Sheyjustmadethishey (talk) 22:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

No, they haven't. The northern white rhinoceros is very near extinction, which is probably what you're thinking of, but the species is not extinct yet. Bsoyka (talk · contribs) 22:37, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

I do not understand this section. Sheyjustmadethishey (talk) 22:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  A S U K I T E  22:35, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

It would be really useful if even one these drive-by edits gave at least a hint of the supposed source. Best guess so far is that it's a social media post from a decade back that has been thrown back up by the ineffable workings of the internet. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 22:37, 7 June 2021 (UTC)