Talk:WebCite/Archive 1

free? and copyright?

Contrary to what is claimed in the lead paragraph of this article ,

• "There are various possible models to cover the ongoing costs of operations. The most likely model is that publishers will pay a membership fee (similar to PILA/CrossRef membership fees) to have their cited webreferences archived. There is no fee for authors. Readers from publishers/journals who are WebCite® members will also have free access to archived material, unless publishers opt to charge their readers or to make this is value added service for subscribers only." FAQ

and

• "The membership fee for full membership is currently a voluntary donation which should be dependent on your publishing revenue and the number of scholarly articles with webreferences you are publishing per year. We recommend to donate $1 per WebCite reference per year. For example, if you publish 500 articles per year, and each of these articles contains on average one webreference, we recommend to donate $500. We ask for a minimum donation of $20" membership application form

and

• "Except for archived content, this site is licensed under a

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 License." DGG 22:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

There's no contradiction. I think an author can simultaneously release his work under CC-BY-NC-SA 2.5 and sell the work under a different license, if that author is the only author of the work. Well-known example of a similar (different but similar license) situation, IIRC: MySQL is available under a GPL and a commercial license. This can't happen legally without the permission of all authors. --Elvey (talk) 04:20, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Use in Wikipedia articles

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Please discuss use of WebCite at "Wikipedia talk:Citing sources".

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For discussion about using WebCite in Wikipedia articles, see Wikipedia talk:Cite sources/archive14#WebCite.

Should the above be on the page, not here on the talk page? IMO -- Yes. --IReceivedDeathThreats (talk) 19:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Editing an archival page seems like a bad idea to me. Anyway, it looks to me like the necessary parameters for citation have already been put into several templates such as cite news and cite web.

Rough Howto:

1. Use WebCite = http://www.webcitation.org/ (or another similar on-demand archival site) e.g. http://www.webcitation.org/archive + the URL + your email address to create the archived copy; you receive an archiveurl which you can test;
2. Use |archiveurl= |archivedate= parameters in your reference;
3. Note: if one of archiveurl, archivedate is present, then the other must be present too, and title, url and date must also be present.

(Feel free to move this Howto to a more obvious place and just leave a short link here. But please make sure that it's mentioned in the obvious places where people might look to find it.) Boud (talk) 22:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

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Webcitation.org links don't work

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Please discuss use of WebCite at "Wikipedia talk:Citing sources".

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Webcitation.org seems to be gone. Someone needs to update this article to explain it's disapearance. What is the alternative? What is to become of all the archived pages?--141.217.91.33 (talk) 13:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Seems to be working just fine now.--Sting Buzz Me... 22:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Hasn't been down for me, but according to a comment by Gunther Eysenbach they're working on WebCite 2.0, which will add some new features to manage your archived pages and some social bookmarking. Should be released in a couple of weeks. It's possible the downtime you saw could be associated with this, I have no idea. Mahanga^Talk 16:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

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Still confused

After reading the above, including the linked discussion on Wikipedia talk, I am still confused.

Can I, as an author/editor of a Wikipedia article, legally create cached copies of my references on WebCite and link to them (without first asking permission of the copyright holders), or not?

And what about citing a reference that since the WP article was first created, has disappeared from the site of original publication but not from the Web (i.e., someone copied it to a Google group where it remains online) -- can I then legally create a cached copy of that on WebCite and link to it (but omitting the original URL since that is lost)?--Goodmorningworld (talk) 14:14, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

WebCite works on the principle that caching of material that has been put out on to the Web is fair use, unless website owners have specifically indicated that they do not want their material to be cached using a robot exclusion standard. So I would say that there is no problem in using WebCite to try and archive your references, and seeing if the websites in question permit caching.

The second question is trickier. I think the answer depends on whether the original website allows archiving or caching of its content or not. If not, just because the material has been illegally cached by someone else on to a website that itself allows caching doesn't change the fact that the material was reproduced in breach of copyright or the terms of use of the original website. If the original website is still live, try and find the website's terms of use to see if it prohibits caching. However, if has already disappeared from the Net, I think it may be reasonable to assume that caching of its material was allowed until more information comes to light or the original copyright owner requests for the content to be taken down. That's just my own view, though. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 04:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Re. the second question: WP:V and WP:RS do NOT require that sources be available online at all. --Elvey (talk) 23:52, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Quite. Although if it was an online-only source and it's dead & the archive services blocked (surprisingly common), then I don't think it's so clear what is to be done. --Gwern (contribs) 23:54 14 December 2009 (GMT)

Anyone else notice downtime on webcitation.org?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Please discuss use of WebCite at "Wikipedia talk:Citing sources".

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Hey, at the risk of breaking WP:FORUM, I wanted to check on this. I recently had it archive several sites, but everything seems to be timing out now. -- Scarpy (talk) 07:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

It came back, and went down again (today - error mentioned a DB issue), and came back.--Elvey (talk) 04:22, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

I was just going to ask that... I just got a 403 Forbidden error... (yes, I know, WP:FORUM... be quiet.) the error exactly:

You don't have permission to access / on this server. Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

--Unionhawk ^{Talk E-mail} 01:30, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Found this at User:WebCiteBOT: "On June 18, I was informed by the WebCite people that the frequent downtime was due to high server load and they were in the process of upgrading to a dedicated server to address the increased need." - If we're lucky, the current downtime is because they're updating. edit: oh, this was already added to the article.[1] Siawase (talk) 09:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

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Getting links to archive

If anyone cares, I've released a little bot that crawls NewPages/RC for links to submit to WebCite; see "Haskell ANN: wp-archivebot 0.1 - archive Wikipedia's external links in WebCite". --Gwern (contribs) 16:55 4 June 2009 (GMT)

Can someone let us know when WebCite is back working again?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Please discuss use of WebCite at "Wikipedia talk:Citing sources".

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Tried to comb a couple of midlength Wikipedia articles just now -- nothing "found." I'd really like to archive the links in the articles in question before they expire. Please let us know, anyone who finds out anything. Thanks! Softlavender (talk) 04:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Apparent loss of data by WebCite

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Discussion can be found at Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources/Archive_26#Update where it was archived after it had been moved to "Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Apparent loss of data by WebCite".

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Although WebCite seems to be back online, I was distressed to find that a number of web pages that I archived prior to the site going down for server migration appear to have been lost. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I've left a message on the talk page of Eysen (Gunther Eysenbach is the initiator of the WebCite system) about this. As this talk page is not really the right place for a discussion of this matter, please discuss the matter on Eysen's user talk page. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 16:44, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

That's disturbing. I certainly hope the files are recovered, because many/most links were outdated by now. Softlavender (talk) 04:14, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I've moved the discussion to "Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Apparent loss of data by WebCite" as this talk page is really for discussing improvements to the "WebCite" article. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 09:52, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Userbox

I have created a userbox to help spread the word that WebCite is a useful website archiving service. {{User WebCite}}--Blargh29 (talk) 04:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

WebCite down permanently?

No matter what link I use today, I get a dead link saying the webcitation.org (or various pages within) results in:

Server not found

Firefox can't find the server at www.webcitation.org.

I'd hate to see it end. Does anyone know more? Were there copyright issues? -- Tenebrae (talk) 14:45, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/webcitation.org --Gwern (contribs) 16:34 11 October 2009 (GMT)

I was able to get to it just now. -- Scarpy (talk) 16:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Copyright issues

I have created a section describing WebCite's legal position on the copyright issues. It is relevant to the operation of WebCite and neutral, because it described WebCite's legal position in the event of a lawsuit. Maybe there is another source that criticizes WebCite's legal argument, but I can't find it. --Blargh29 (talk) 04:23, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

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